Soil Flood... explain plz

Discussion in 'Cannabis Infirmary' started by bloads, Jun 19, 2011.

  1. bloads

    bloads Active Farmer

    It sounds pretty damn self explanitory, yeah, I know.

    My question is (long): Pretty sure I remember reading that the root aphids are only in the top few inches of the soil(coco), would it be best to do a controlled flood, where I don't drench the entire root system with my bug killer (SNS 203 in my case), so that the roots don't have to deal with all the extra bug-killing oil, or should I just go ahead and just do a major flush, getting all of my soil/coco?
  2. Seamaiden

    Seamaiden Moderator Staff Member

    Root aphids seem to do better if you go through wet and dry cycles, exactly the kind that are used to control fungus gnats. I haven't used any SNS product (but they've got such a good reputation that I may change that when I get an "opportunity"), but when I was dealing with the RAs I flooded my tables, up to about 2" on the pots, and left them there for two days. I did that with both Bayer T&S, which did hardly a thing, and then with Spectracide with Triazicide and that was the killing blow.

    Drench the ENTIRE pot, and get all nooks and crannies where flyers can hide. I would use Spectracide for that job, as it's much less expensive. Be warned though, it kills everything. Made me very sad to see all my spiders curled up and dead.
  3. Dr. Detroit

    Dr. Detroit Farmer

    Beneficial predatory nematodes (Steinernema especially) are an excellent organic non-pesticide option for any rhizomal pest control situation.
  4. green punk

    green punk Well-Known Farmer

    Ive used the 203 at first it kills a bunch but it doesn't kill them all. I even said fuck it and poured it on straight as a last resort. It didn't kill the plant. You also can't fertilize w the 203 the nutes make the clove oils inert or off gas or something. I would use evergreen or exciter 6% pyrethrium @ 2 ml per gallon (Thanks Masonite, saved my shit!). It works for sure. I have dunked the whole pot til it stops bubbling to kill them on my mothers.
    RA live throughout the whole root mass top to bottom. Gnats mostly top few inches.
    Nematodes unfortunately only live in top few inches and won't really work because the RA live throughout root mass.
    I also recommend using some kind of bene inoculate after you use the poison to help break down carcasses and help root damage repair.

    Good Luck, Grow Hard
  5. Dr. Detroit

    Dr. Detroit Farmer

    Nematodes are the most diverse and widespread multicellular organisms on the planet. They definitely penetrate to a depth of more than a few inches. This article corroborates my assertion: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2620435/

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I don't like poison. Smoke whatever you want, but please don't try and sell your stuff if you're drenching it in various toxins that you only vaguely understand.

    Nematodes work.
  6. Seamaiden

    Seamaiden Moderator Staff Member

    Do you speak from direct experience on that? I ask specifically because of what an acquaintance who's got quite a few years under his belt had to say about the nematodes and their true effectiveness for treating root aphids.
  7. green punk

    green punk Well-Known Farmer

    Hey Detroit:

    Not trying to have a pissing match here bro. But, I have to say I am 100% with you on the anti-poison brigade. That being said, when I began my my battle against the RA I immediately called acquaintances at Nature's Control. Nathan the owner told me the nematodes sold for thrips and gnats will not work because of the info I stated in a previous post. They work well for the other pests though. It may be there is a different nematode available that you speak of. Its kinda weird putting faith in the sponge having the nematodes in it. I would save the coin and try the pyrethrium.

    Good Luck, Grow Hard
  8. bloads

    bloads Active Farmer

    I don't think SNS 203 classifies as a poison... all it is clove & rosemary oil.
  9. Dr. Detroit

    Dr. Detroit Farmer

    I have a 400x microscope setup and enough sense to collect samples in the course of any infestation. It's not too difficult to activate the roundworms in a water suspension and then dig out a few aphid maggots from the medium to pair with them. Direct personal observation is a must with me, as I'm not very trusting by nature.

    The nematodes work.
  10. Dr. Detroit

    Dr. Detroit Farmer

    Often the problem lies in temperature control, soil type, drain time, or the like. They thrive in sphagnum, but abhor coco coir (that rhymes).

    If they can kill fire ant colonies, then don't doubt their toughness.
  11. Seamaiden

    Seamaiden Moderator Staff Member

    Depends on how you pronounce "coir". That's a helluva crossover, going from the RAs to fire ants, but that's not how I would gauge effectiveness as I don't have a fire ant problem, I had a root aphid problem that I sincerely and truly hope is over and DONE WITH. I especially detested using the chemistry it required to gain control of the situation.
  12. You sayin you never use poison?


    Did you erradicate an RA infestation with nematodes alone?
  13. Seamaiden

    Seamaiden Moderator Staff Member

    Define poison. Water can be poison.
  14. Dr. Detroit

    Dr. Detroit Farmer

    Like that link I posted earlier hints at, an important trick is to let the medium dry out between applications of the nematodes. They'll follow the moisture down through the rhizome and clear the whole problem up no problemo.

    I preemptively apply nematodes to every batch of soil that I build. Haven't had an insect problem in years with my soil grows, nor have I sprayed anything other than methyl jasmonate or silica in those years.

    Well, I guess occasionally I do use carbonated water though...



  15. Define poison? ....ok...no Websters in hand though...

    Poison=bad for my plants


    Havent managed to poison with water yet, unless overwatering is considered poison....but theres always tomorrow!!..lol...


    I was curious if DSquirel had used nematodes to erradicate RA's....in other words....is that the only defense he used to kill them all. He doesnt like using poison, or doesnt use poison....he says. I am still trying to gain some clarity on that one.

    If he used NT's alone that is good juju to have in my bag for future reference. I would try them as opposed to Merit 75. IF they work....hence the question.
  16. bloads

    bloads Active Farmer

    I had the same results w/the 203 (though I didn't do a complete soak). I went to my local store, and they sold me something in a random glass vial that they said to use 2ml per gal, and it WORKED. With that dosing (and its smell) i'm guessing it was evergreen. No more root aphids it seems like. I even removed all the plants from my room and coated the room in a STRONG solution of it, let that dry, then coated the room w/specracyde. I was in there today for hours, and didn't see one crawling bug in soil or on the floor.

    Now, question time:

    The guy at the store said that they were about to stop selling that product in CA. I bought 2 vials that were about 12-15 ML each for $10. Where can I get more of this Evergreen stuff, before it's not available in CA (besides via Ebay)?
  17. How do you define poison?
  18. I had root aphids about 8 months ago and used merit 75 in a 30 gallon rubbermaid tub and dunked all my moms and small vegging plant's 1-5 gallon pots under the solution ( with serious rubber gloves) until the bubbles stopped. Crushed out the root aphids 100%. Clean your entire basement or house like you never have before and you should be good. Helped my friends do this at 3 separate places and they all worked 100%
  19. Seamaiden

    Seamaiden Moderator Staff Member

    Substance that can sicken or kill if ingested (irrespective of quantity). Drink enough water and that alone can kill you.