Sterilizing A Dwc Bubblerponics Of Pythium

[THeretiC]

Yeah, they do photosynthesize, but in the absence of light, they can use carbon and/or glucose in the environment for energy, and since carbon's pretty prevalent in most water sources, it can (and will) feed on that in greater quantities when deprived of light.

I wish I'd gone to school for biology at this point.

 

[THeretiC]

See that white crap? If after draining your reservoirs you see that weird stuff, you are NOT seeing sodium deposits; you are seeing cyanobacteria cultures. That's how you know.

 

[THeretiC]

Well. This stuff? Holy crap. Just. Holy CRAP. What does it TAKE, man??
So. With 2 tsp. of Physan 20 in both of my 5gal bubblebuckets after having scrubbed and thoroughly washed everything from the inside of the tent to the buckets to the airstones to the tubes, lids, everything. Turning on the air pump makes the water foam up SUPER hard, because of the Physan20. I added some quarter-strength nutes and PH Down (General Hydroponics) to the water and kept finding that even after adding tablespoons of the stuff the pH just would not go down at all. Figuring perhaps that maybe the Physan20 was interfering with my test kit (the color test), I left the buckets with the pumps off for the night. Today, at noon, I looked inside the buckets. One is perfectly clear, as it was before, too. The other, however, which has my clearly-stronger plant, had a bunch of weird floaty shit at the top....which I suspect is this same cyanobacteria crap, because apparently this stuff is hard as hell to kill.

I turned on the pump, let it run. The suds overflowed, though, pushed aside a bunch of the hydroton rocks in the bigger plant's net, and bent the leaves up, and now there's this white chalky shit all over the lid, the hydroton, and even on the leaves of the plant, which has me EXTREMELY anxious. I'm gonna try to clean everything, and I'm hoping that these are just nutes, as I DID add some CaliMagic with the nutes and maybe it's just calcium deposits. I sure as hell hope so. But my concern is that the suds pushed the cyanos to the top and then up into the hydroton/plug/lid. It SHOULD have killed the cyanos but I'm not certain anymore.

At any rate, the plants themselves are not wilting, they're still green, the big one has some boron deficiency spots because I didn't nute the water for a while, but NBD. They seem to be okay, and that's all I care about. If cyanos wanna infest my buckets, fine, but if I can control them, that's perfectly fine. But controlling them seems to be extremely difficult.

I'm considering a UV sterilizer of some kind. I might also go to the pet store and grab some cyanobacteria-specific antibiotics and see if that does any work. I might also go back to getting the big jugs of triple-filtered water from the store; simply using a Brita filter for the tap is clearly insufficient.

 

[THeretiC]

Quick update. I made a dilution of Physan 20 and warm water to clean the interior of the tent with, and on a lark, I decided to maybe do the same with the big plant. I emptied the hydroton into the solution, and removed the plug. Unlike prior instances of cyanobacterial infestation, there was no white snot or guck anywhere on the plug. The roots are slightly brown in some places, which means there's probably SOMETHING on them, but anyway. I took some of the solution, mostly filled a small tupperware container, put the plug in a much smaller netpot, and have it soaking in the Physan solution.

If this plant could form thoughts, I'm pretty certain at this point it'd be like "dude wat r u even doing oh another bath ok..."

 

[DGP]

What nutes are you using? Are they clear when mixed? Reason I ask is my GH nutes have dyes in them and at first I thought I had an issue with root colors when it was just the General Hydro nutes dying them slightly brown. I was just thinking on the one plant that didn't have slime but the roots were an off color may be caused by the nutes or other additives that are not clear. Not sure but just wondering......

I sure hope you figure this out. It seems like one of the toughest problem next to viruses I have seen on the forums.

 

[5Chord]

Wow, I totally feel your pain.

My first few grows were drama filled science experiments gone awry. I had no idea so many strains (and colors!) of algae and mold existed until I cultivated them myself. While I don't claim to be an expert, here are a few things I've learned over the past few years and a few dozen grows that may be helpful:

Keep it simple. Simple Clear nutes and Hydrogaurd all you really need to add to your reservoir. At the risk of sounding like a commercial, if you're doing DWC, get Hydrogaurd. I've seen it turn around root problems time and time again, but Skip the Hygrozyme (I grow Slime). And stay away from products with half naked women on the labels claiming things that are hard to believe. There is no magic bullet.

Start Small. It's a lot easier to flush 3 or 5 gal of slime than 25.

Bleach kills everything. I've even experimented with adding drops of bleach directly to the reservoir with success, but I don't recommend it as it's a tight rope to walk. One drop too much will put the whole plant into shock, (don't ask me how I know.) BUT, It's the best and cheapest way to sterilizing your stuff; just make sure you rinse very very well.

Bugs are something you are going to have to deal with sooner or later so plan now. Neem oil and other commercial product are available everywhere (Amazon). Stay away from bombs as they can contaminate your plants and literely poison the reservoir.

Just grow and don't give up. Embrace your mistakes as learning experiences because your going to make them. You can read all the books in the world about driving cars but you can't learn to drive until you're behind the wheel.

H202 is practically worthless. Even if it temporarily fixes your issue (and it usually doesn't) it never addresses the issue that cased it.

Another thing I wanted to mention was in regard to your lighting. While I have never vegged using LED (I have a 2600w LED for flowering), I think you might try putting the light further from the cubes or better yet, get a two-foot T5.

In any case, I look forward to seeing you get it right and learning in the process!

 

[THeretiC]

Well, so far what seems to work best is washing the container with physan 20 solution, boiling the airstones for about 5-10 minutes, soaking them 30 minutes in physan 20 solution, bubbling them for 30 minutes in it, and then adding the water (RO really is best), cali-mag, nutes, h202 (just for good measure), ph down (Advanced Nutrients. Holy crap AN is so much better than Gen Hydro, at least for their up/down stuff, gonna see about their line of nutes, too), Hydroguard.

Hydroguard is love and life. Also if you get a stubborn form of cyanobacteria AKA water snot AKA blue-green algae AKA the zombie algae that thrives in the dark and feeds off of starches and glucose (so don't use Gen Hydro pH down; it has citric acid in it which breaks down into glucose that cyanobacteria GO APESHIT FOR), and you really want it gone, go to the pet store, get some cyanobacteria antibiotics. Costs like $6. It'll clear up an infestation like you never had one. But Hydroguard clearly keeps it out. You can never be truly rid of cyanos.

That's the price of dro, though. You want better quality control, mo money for mo problems. But this last plant of mine is doing good now. Let's see how she grows.

 

[THeretiC]

Also: I also agree, absolutely no Hygrozyme. That stuff's terrible. Complezym, however, is fantastic for root growth, and no negative effects! At least none yet that I've seen, and...well, so far, I think I've seen all the major issues that can crop up in the water.

Good reason to consider aeroponics later on down the line, I think.

 

[THeretiC]

If anyone is still reading this, or if anyone comes across this later and finds themselves struggling with Pythium, I have finally determined the very, very simple steps to prevent it.
1: Use water that has been UV-filtered. Stores that sell RO water that you can fill reusable jugs with always use UV filters, and you can usually get that stuff for like 50 cents a gallon at most. This UV filtering will minimize any pathogens that tend to naturally come in through the tap.
2: Hydroguard.
3: Nothing else, and whatever you do: DO. NOT. USE. HYDROGEN PEROXIDE. If you really need oxygenation in your water, air pump + airstones, guys, this is elementary. Hydropero, I have found through trial, error, and observation, weakens new roots and makes them vulnerable to infection by oxidizing the newly-forming protective sheaths. Additionally, it is counterproductive to Hydroguard. The Bacillus strain in Hydroguard IS resistant to hydrogen peroxide. However, h2o2 breaks up bacillus colonies on the roots, which is supposed to be how they inoculate the root strands against pythium in the first place (the second way is through the enzymes the bacillus produces through its natural metabolic processes, which help feed the plant, but which are absolute toxic to pythium, and in high enough concentrations (which inevitably build up), will utterly slaughter pythium spores.

So. Hydroguard, hydroguard, hydroguard. If you have a plant struggling with pythium and you're early into growth, take out the plant from whatever medium it's in, cut the roots down to the starter plug/rockwool cube (just get starter plugs and throw out those rockwool cubes, rockwool is literally the absolute worst growing medium and starter plugs cost like $10 for 50 of them, so just spring for those, seriously, you'll thank me later), then soak the remaining roots and medium in a cup of water with 12ml of Hydroguard mixed in it, let them soak for an hour. Your plant will have a rough week from the loss of so much root material, but it will also go into overdrive developing new roots, which will be inoculated by the existing Hydroguard. After that, just add 2ml per gallon (4 liters) to your nute solution every time you change it out, and you will be home-free.

Hydroguard's cheap, anyway. You can get it for like $10 for a pint or something, and two pints will cover you for an entire growth cycle from seed to harvest.

Proof of this stuff's success (three weeks away from harvest!)

 

[DGP]

If anyone is still reading this, or if anyone comes across this later and finds themselves struggling with Pythium, I have finally determined the very, very simple steps to prevent it.
1: Use water that has been UV-filtered. Stores that sell RO water that you can fill reusable jugs with always use UV filters, and you can usually get that stuff for like 50 cents a gallon at most. This UV filtering will minimize any pathogens that tend to naturally come in through the tap.
2: Hydroguard.
3: Nothing else, and whatever you do: DO. NOT. USE. HYDROGEN PEROXIDE. If you really need oxygenation in your water, air pump + airstones, guys, this is elementary. Hydropero, I have found through trial, error, and observation, weakens new roots and makes them vulnerable to infection by oxidizing the newly-forming protective sheaths. Additionally, it is counterproductive to Hydroguard. The Bacillus strain in Hydroguard IS resistant to hydrogen peroxide. However, h2o2 breaks up bacillus colonies on the roots, which is supposed to be how they inoculate the root strands against pythium in the first place (the second way is through the enzymes the bacillus produces through its natural metabolic processes, which help feed the plant, but which are absolute toxic to pythium, and in high enough concentrations (which inevitably build up), will utterly slaughter pythium spores.

So. Hydroguard, hydroguard, hydroguard. If you have a plant struggling with pythium and you're early into growth, take out the plant from whatever medium it's in, cut the roots down to the starter plug/rockwool cube (just get starter plugs and throw out those rockwool cubes, rockwool is literally the absolute worst growing medium and starter plugs cost like $10 for 50 of them, so just spring for those, seriously, you'll thank me later), then soak the remaining roots and medium in a cup of water with 12ml of Hydroguard mixed in it, let them soak for an hour. Your plant will have a rough week from the loss of so much root material, but it will also go into overdrive developing new roots, which will be inoculated by the existing Hydroguard. After that, just add 2ml per gallon (4 liters) to your nute solution every time you change it out, and you will be home-free.

Hydroguard's cheap, anyway. You can get it for like $10 for a pint or something, and two pints will cover you for an entire growth cycle from seed to harvest.

Proof of this stuff's success (three weeks away from harvest!)

I respect what your saying but I really think the water source in many areas of the world varies massively and can be the source of many issues. Maybe this is agreeing with you:). However, in my grow I found that H2O2 can be very helpful at times if used carefully. I never go with the full dose recommended. But in the last few cycles I have not needed any treatment (beneficials or H2O2) other than keeping the water clean to start with (our water comes out at 15 ppm generally and seems to have very little pathogens). If someone is using RO or water that is natural super clean and controls water temperatures then I think folks might get by with zero treatments. Mine is running clean as can be and smells nice. My water changes have not needed to be weekly unless I want them to be and so far have not seen root issues that would require any treatment with H2O2 or bennies.

So, for me I think there are 2 big factors:
1. Clean water: If you have good water or RO then great
2. Controlling water temps (68 or lower)

Then comes good practices in the grow like not getting anything in the water and keeping light out of the water. Algae doesn't always present a problem but in my grow it seems to lead to other issues eventually so I think it is good to prevent as much algae growth as possible. These cyanobacteria (of course not algae but behaves and looks like it) are a bitch and everyone should hope they never see it in their grow. I guess one of the things I wonder is if RO will clean them out of a bad water source. In my part of the world lakes have to be closed because of it in the Summer because it blooms so vigorously when the conditions are right and it is very toxic to humans and animals. Our fresh water comes from high mountain snow melt so we never see it in our municipal water supplies.

Best wishes for continued success,

Dee