Stop The Bro Science Behind Molasses And Other Organic Stuff

[Hpo777]

you can argue that about the supply of coco husk and rising sea levels, and or land loss, its likely not local to you, it has carbon miles, it leaches nutrients at a higher rate than soil, it harbors many pathogens, its easy to mess up pH, its usually buffered with lime or other and so this has added CO2 pay and so on, it tricks people using it in to imagining they have a moral high ground whislt standing them out on the same shakey platform as the rest of us :) I think its hard to argue about peat and its risk to system stability while we use products in our lives which are made from palm oil and so on:)

Palm oil is a no go for my home! If it does enter my home it's through Justin's Peanut Butter! Yea everything has a down side for sure, but if I can reduce my foot print at all in happy with that. Plus to me anyways, trying new soil or trying new methods is the best part of growing. I'd say most of my interest is in soil more so than bud lol just so happens I smoke so two birds stoned at once right?

Kelp is awesome but I'll just usually bubble that with some alfalfa.
After reading microbeman findings, I tried it out and did find kelp slowed microbial development for the first 24 hours. He suggests. .25%
I go with that, I only did one test with 1 cup in five gallons.

Yea I re hydrate mine, puree it, fridge it and use tbsp a gallon for soil, and 1tsp for foliar spray. I'd say I'm most interested in kelp for the probiotics for sure. It's so easy to get lost in one aspect of microbes, but always gotta remember they need a healthy diet just like we do! Why I started the thread over molasses, which I believe to be a junk food.

 

[Ecompost]

I'm not even going to read those because they have nothing to do with the true organic farmer. I'm sure this is all commercial

no i checked, none of them are commercial in reality, but seriously, are we going to dismiss data because we perceive it to be loaded, or that it is loaded, or who knows if we dont read it? Not all data from commercial beginnings is flawed? And that somehow the whole nutrient business is really an evil overlord trying to trap us and feed us false data?
Truth is, inorganic soil biota recovers faster than organic farmers are touting. As an organic farmer I find this offensive because it simply isnt accurate data that is generally presented among organic purveyors, and its this i want. I choose organics for many reasons, yield aint one of them, but I am working to solve the missing 20% via deeper understanding of organics and living systems and i am paying for this research and its my time and effort with those around me.

I do however believe my food is better even by one marker, shelf life. I would argue against the view that there are no standards in organics, likely there are more than in trad farming, its very easy to fall foul of the changes as well. True organics is adding nothing, in these situations when compared to an inorganic farmer across most crop types, there will be a decline in yield. This can not be denied, there is research proving it in the real world.
The advances are taking place in our deeper understanding of soil phenotypes and not in the new chemicals in some lab, or even in new ways to use kelp. We will breach the objections of inorganic farmers with time, but given the current spread of researching funding, this aint gonna happen tomorrow. Even if we want to see it happen at all, we must keep up the pressure on those controlling AG at national levels and push our schools of thought leadership, to invest in organic research.
Honestly, if I hear another inorganic farmer say there is no data, i will bloody well leap at the screen. This stupidity shows a sincere lack of the facts of funding and sincere lack of appreciation that ones needs money to carry out research in whose findings we can all review. If you cant be arsed to do this work to encourage a balance and prevent the obvious perversion and so bias of appropriation of funds and quality of data thereafter, button it ref the BS you think you know about organics. :-)
Organic farmers that think all synthetic farmers are destroying the earth, think on when you next go to Walmart for your groceries because you want cheap, and know this, the systems that regulate the planet, will smash us all up, but the planet will go on, may be next time there is life and evolution, there will be a more appreciative bunch at the top who are less concerned with divide and conquer and more likely to say OK I appreciate your view, this doesnt distract the common goal is still the same, we need to feed people and we need to leave the land fit for purpose, just as there is diversity of microbes, there are many ways to grow a melon:-)

 

[Ecompost]

Palm oil is a no go for my home! If it does enter my home it's through Justin's Peanut Butter! Yea everything has a down side for sure, but if I can reduce my foot print at all in happy with that. Plus to me anyways, trying new soil or trying new methods is the best part of growing. I'd say most of my interest is in soil more so than bud lol just so happens I smoke so two birds stoned at once right?


Yea I re hydrate mine, puree it, fridge it and use tbsp a gallon for soil, and 1tsp for foliar spray. I'd say I'm most interested in kelp for the probiotics for sure. It's so easy to get lost in one aspect of microbes, but always gotta remember they need a healthy diet just like we do! Why I started the thread over molasses, which I believe to be a junk food.

ha soil is most certainly a wider challenge with a greater prize :-) good on you, you are doing good things man

 

[brazel]

Palm oil is a no go for my home! If it does enter my home it's through Justin's Peanut Butter! Yea everything has a down side for sure, but if I can reduce my foot print at all in happy with that. Plus to me anyways, trying new soil or trying new methods is the best part of growing. I'd say most of my interest is in soil more so than bud lol just so happens I smoke so two birds stoned at once right?


Yea I re hydrate mine, puree it, fridge it and use tbsp a gallon for soil, and 1tsp for foliar spray. I'd say I'm most interested in kelp for the probiotics for sure. It's so easy to get lost in one aspect of microbes, but always gotta remember they need a healthy diet just like we do! Why I started the thread over molasses, which I believe to be a junk food.

yeah molasses is good for a couple things but shit I hear molasses just as much as I hear cal-mag now!

 

[Hpo777]

ha soil is most certainly a wider challenge with a greater prize :) good on you, you are doing good things man

Thanks man. We appreciate you over here fr sure

yeah molasses is good for a couple things but shit I hear molasses just as much as I hear cal-mag now!

Yea I like molasses just not in teas. I think people misunderstand that part, good for mixing with water, just don't think it has a place in teas because I want more diverse teas not bacteria dominate. Plenty of bacteria and easy ways to get it without a tea. I think nematodes are a insane underrated part of our soil biology, no one really talks about em, but they provide so much more

 

[brazel]

no i checked, none of them are commercial in reality, but seriously, are we going to dismiss data because we perceive it to be loaded, or that it is loaded, or who knows if we dont read it? Not all data from commercial beginnings is flawed? And that somehow the whole nutrient business is really an evil overlord trying to trap us and feed us false data?
Truth is, inorganic soil biota recovers faster than organic farmers are touting. As an organic farmer I find this offensive because it simply isnt accurate data that is generally presented among organic purveyors, and its this i want. I choose organics for many reasons, yield aint one of them, but I am working to solve the missing 20% via deeper understanding of organics and living systems and i am paying for this research and its my time and effort with those around me.

I do however believe my food is better even by one marker, shelf life. I would argue against the view that there are no standards in organics, likely there are more than in trad farming, its very easy to fall foul of the changes as well. True organics is adding nothing, in these situations when compared to an inorganic farmer across most crop types, there will be a decline in yield. This can not be denied, there is research proving it in the real world.
The advances are taking place in our deeper understanding of soil phenotypes and not in the new chemicals in some lab, or even in new ways to use kelp. We will breach the objections of inorganic farmers with time, but given the current spread of researching funding, this aint gonna happen tomorrow. Even if we want to see it happen at all, we must keep up the pressure on those controlling AG at national levels and push our schools of thought leadership, to invest in organic research.
Honestly, if I hear another inorganic farmer say there is no data, i will bloody well leap at the screen. This stupidity shows a sincere lack of the facts of funding and sincere lack of appreciation that ones needs money to carry out research in whose findings we can all review. If you cant be arsed to do this work to encourage a balance and prevent the obvious perversion and so bias of appropriation of funds and quality of data thereafter, button it ref the BS you think you know about organics. :)
Organic farmers that think all synthetic farmers are destroying the earth, think on when you next go to Walmart for your groceries because you want cheap, and know this, the systems that regulate the planet, will smash us all up, but the planet will go on, may be next time there is life and evolution, there will be a more appreciative bunch at the top who are less concerned with divide and conquer and more likely to say OK I appreciate your view, this doesnt distract the common goal is still the same, we need to feed people and we need to leave the land fit for purpose, just as there is diversity of microbes, there are many ways to grow a melon:)

I haven't read this yet, but I went back to see what I commented to and I was wrong. I got wrapped up in the organic thing so I assumed they were post about organic. I know 100% if it's a post about organic being bad it's on a commercial level, or a better way to say that is it would be about somebody who has no passion about organic and doesn't really care about it, their just out to make a dollar.

I posted countless times that fruits and vegetables are supposed to be nutrient dense and they just lack that. I skimmed the first paragraph on one of those links I'm going to go back and read it all and apologize to him. Then I'll come back and read your post.

Thank you for calling me out and bringing this to my attention. It might sound funny but it feels better to be wrong and have somebody show you what's real then it does to be right

 

[Ecompost]

I haven't read this yet, but I went back to see what I commented to and I was wrong. I got wrapped up in the organic thing so I assumed they were post about organic. I know 100% if it's a post about organic being bad it's on a commercial level, or a better way to say that is it would be about somebody who has no passion about organic and doesn't really care about it, their just out to make a dollar.

I posted countless times that fruits and vegetables are supposed to be nutrient dense and they just lack that. I skimmed the first paragraph on one of those links I'm going to go back and read it all and apologize to him. Then I'll come back and read your post.

Thank you for calling me out and bringing this to my attention. It might sound funny but it feels better to be wrong and have somebody show you what's real then it does to be right

there is no difference, this is what they want, we are together growin plants nothing more

 

[oldskol4evr]

it has messages that attract lots of facilitative microbes, but as with anything, its balance. lots of really useful microbes can flip flop states, thank god for this redundancy or we might be mile deep in dinosaur shit still :) Having microbes in a tea is one thing, but knowing these are the critical partners of your current crop choice is quite another. its likely nothing so much as the loss of oxygen, so much as the possible hazard of too much SNR more generally. if we said sun flowers have about 3-5 biological primer partner microbes, what would be the value in brewing a tea that have more than these 3-5? What is the hazard.
I think the concept of tea brewing being debated by ingredient choice is to ignore the potential this mass inoculation method offers, but how to brew a tea with only the microbes we know to be communicating with our plant in beneficial ways, this is the challenge.
Tea is still newish, it will evolve as we understand more. i suspect we all stop brewing teas in the near future, the more we understand soil phenotyping the more likely we are to find hazard with its application but this isnt to say stop using it now. Dont worry about other peoples inputs, rather worry about how do you find out which microbes your white widow needs today, versus what your OG Kush is using, how do you maintain the stability of microbe populations in light of constantly changing soil states, as the interface (soil) is adapted by those it hosts, plants, chemicals, biology and so on?
What is the point of growing with biology, to reduce nutrient use? To grow better plants? can we? to reduce the impacts on mother nature? all of the above and more?
Ok so now we do all the phenotyping for everything that interacts at the interface, where can we store this data? how can we access it, how do we monitor or even study so we might recommend?

i agree with this,ive done all kinds of tea ,cant say many have shown me results,the one tea i use alot is,boiled potato and compost,i let it sit in that 33 gal can till the surface circle ring is about half the can,and when i see bubbles,i feed to garden,and without a doubt is see happy ass plants next day,this is the only one ive seen actually show me its liked so far,lol

 

[Ecompost]

Thanks man. We appreciate you over here fr sure

Yea I like molasses just not in teas. I think people misunderstand that part, good for mixing with water, just don't think it has a place in teas because I want more diverse teas not bacteria dominate. Plenty of bacteria and easy ways to get it without a tea. I think nematodes are a insane underrated part of our soil biology, no one really talks about em, but they provide so much more

I do mate, i rate nemtodes and breed my own here. i also talk extensively about ground beetles, also a much under rated star of healthy systems

 

[brazel]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AAmQQFggyMAE&usg=AOvVaw3nakF2o-mVTsZ4j7A9pHfW

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...IBGMQFghJMAU&usg=AOvVaw2ngY0B3QqGjc3bBfaqI1XY

I'm sorry for my comment about not going to read these cause I know they're commercial... Or something like that I said either way I apologize. I assumed it was going to be an article saying organic was bad so with that I knew that if it was an organic article saying it's bad it's about a person who had no passion for organic and doesn't care and it was just out to make a dollar.

@Ecompost called me out and I still haven't read his comment, all I read was the first sentence and he said no it's not what I thought. So I stopped right there and went and found your post, once I clicked the first link and skimmed the first paragraph I knew instantly I was wrong.
So I apologize for assuming and my comment. I skimmed over all three and they're good articles! I'm stoked to read them later today.

 

[brazel]

Thanks man. We appreciate you over here fr sure

Yea I like molasses just not in teas. I think people misunderstand that part, good for mixing with water, just don't think it has a place in teas because I want more diverse teas not bacteria dominate. Plenty of bacteria and easy ways to get it without a tea. I think nematodes are a insane underrated part of our soil biology, no one really talks about em, but they provide so much more

The nematodes is understandable because there's some bad species of nematodes that destroy and unfortunately their destructiveness overcomes the good of the other ones

 

[oldskol4evr]

I haven't read this yet, but I went back to see what I commented to and I was wrong. I got wrapped up in the organic thing so I assumed they were post about organic. I know 100% if it's a post about organic being bad it's on a commercial level, or a better way to say that is it would be about somebody who has no passion about organic and doesn't really care about it, their just out to make a dollar.

I posted countless times that fruits and vegetables are supposed to be nutrient dense and they just lack that. I skimmed the first paragraph on one of those links I'm going to go back and read it all and apologize to him. Then I'll come back and read your post.

Thank you for calling me out and bringing this to my attention. It might sound funny but it feels better to be wrong and have somebody show you what's real then it does to be right

as my brother said it is the distraction from the shits and gigglers that interupt what we talk about,for your mistake,you human bro,it happens,i think i got the redest ass of all us,i love the soil ,ive tried all but hydro,havent tried because of cost,but i dont go to the hydro section to disract them from there studies either,we lost a good organic guy other day from this bullshit,,so it wasnt really a mistake just distraction from what we all thrive for ,INPUT

 

[brazel]

there is no difference, this is what they want, we are together growin plants nothing more

I'm a little confused... no difference between a passionate organic grower and commercial organic grower that doesn't care about organic and just out to make a dollar?

 

[oldskol4evr]

I do mate, i rate nemtodes and breed my own here. i also talk extensively about ground beetles, also a much under rated star of healthy systems

eco im gonna try something ,not sure if it works ,but wont know if not trying,i gonna make about a cup of rice and cover it with paper towel and sit it in with my potato plants and sweet potato,see if i can get some imo out there what you think

 

[brazel]

there is no difference, this is what they want, we are together growin plants nothing more

Ok I see what you're saying!

 

[brazel]

as my brother said it is the distraction from the shits and gigglers that interupt what we talk about,for your mistake,you human bro,it happens,i think i got the redest ass of all us,i love the soil ,ive tried all but hydro,havent tried because of cost,but i dont go to the hydro section to disract them from there studies either,we lost a good organic guy other day from this bullshit,,so it wasnt really a mistake just distraction from what we all thrive for ,INPUT

I see what you're saying! I understand but at the same time I wish someone lit a match under my ass back in the 90's when I was a noobie with a trunk full of bottles:)
But yes some like what they do.

 

[oldskol4evr]

I see what you're saying! I understand but at the same time I wish someone lit a match under my ass back in the 90's when I was a noobie with a trunk full of bottles:)
But yes some like what they do.

well im more into soil for less work and more plants if you dig,think about this hydro,coco,perlite or straight up peat moss,you got nutrient to feed all the time,add the cost of lighting,ok with that to come out ahead you would have to sell the product for more right,thing in question is how do you put a price on your labor involved?you really cant,guess i can tell ya,rather be my veggie garden or the tent,im always screwing with something,,ive tried all but hydro like i said,to me it is more cost effective growing in what i came from,thats soil regaurdless of any other thought,without soil we wouldnt exsist period,,soil is a magic worker and laborer on its own ,just needs a little this and that,and most times all screw up are from the human factor,,babbling now,,but rather soil ,water or anything else,one thing that brings us all together is we all like and enjoy a plant that we started and work it to a harvest,,i get more pleasure from my own veggies and my herb because it came from my sweat if you dig,most of society cant say that,lmao

 

[MW7945]

one mans data is another mans Brussel sprouts... we can only educate those willing to learn and even then we must pre fix our teaching with as far as we know today.....the ever expanding universe is in the very things we do everyday and our deeper understanding of it.
where does your old coco go after you have used it?

Check it out in the woods at the farm :)

 

[jumpincactus]

it has messages that attract lots of facilitative microbes, but as with anything, its balance. lots of really useful microbes can flip flop states, thank god for this redundancy or we might be mile deep in dinosaur shit still :) Having microbes in a tea is one thing, but knowing these are the critical partners of your current crop choice is quite another. its likely nothing so much as the loss of oxygen, so much as the possible hazard of too much SNR more generally. if we said sun flowers have about 3-5 biological primer partner microbes, what would be the value in brewing a tea that have more than these 3-5? What is the hazard.
I think the concept of tea brewing being debated by ingredient choice is to ignore the potential this mass inoculation method offers, but how to brew a tea with only the microbes we know to be communicating with our plant in beneficial ways, this is the challenge.
Tea is still newish, it will evolve as we understand more. i suspect we all stop brewing teas in the near future, the more we understand soil phenotyping the more likely we are to find hazard with its application but this isnt to say stop using it now. Dont worry about other peoples inputs, rather worry about how do you find out which microbes your white widow needs today, versus what your OG Kush is using, how do you maintain the stability of microbe populations in light of constantly changing soil states, as the interface (soil) is adapted by those it hosts, plants, chemicals, biology and so on?
What is the point of growing with biology, to reduce nutrient use? To grow better plants? can we? to reduce the impacts on mother nature? all of the above and more?
Ok so now we do all the phenotyping for everything that interacts at the interface, where can we store this data? how can we access it, how do we monitor or even study so we might recommend?

Hey brother, good to see you about. The peer reviewed science behind teas be it aerated or not is very limited and I would agree with you that we need to be able to identify what it is we are really brewing.

There are many claims as to the efficacy and miracles of AACT but very little science/studies to back up the claims.

Here is a great article covering AACT's aka compost tea. Good read and explains some of the difficulties of doing the research to document just what the benefits are using tea's. We are still a long way away fromhaving definitive answer behind the science and benefits of using teas.

As well there are also some dangers in the misuse and using teas that we have no idea what pathogens we may be brewing. Heres the article. Enjoy..........

Compost tea: Examining the science behind the claims

Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D. Extension Horticulturist and Associate Professor, Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State University

Here is the link for the paper. https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/compost-tea-4.pdf

Here is another link concerning the perceived efficacy of using teas as a pesticide. You know we have all seen the claims...........
https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/compost-tea.pdf

And a link concerning using teas as a disease suppressor
https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/compost-tea-2.pdf

 

[Ecompost]

Check it out in the woods at the farm :)

ah if you put coco in the woods, what is the impact? how it is changing the local conditions?. I never saw a coconut tree growing in a forest before....what happens to forest soils when they get top dressed with cocomedia?