Subdue Maxx

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Burned Haze

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Anyone have a opinion on using Subdue Maxx and Rootshield WP together?

* subdue Maxx is listed on root shields wp manual as combine suggestion for success, also saw a few threads saying other wise.

* I realize that it’s not regulated for cannabis, for my understanding it looks pretty safe and quite a few top members were suggesting it on here about bad root molds ( along time ago thou). If you argue otherwise or could show proof not to use Subdue Maxx I’m sure a lot of people would want to know/ me too.


heres a old link for Subdue Maxx on thc farmer
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...se-here-everyday-fusarium-solani.51997/page-4
 
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Burned Haze

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Wrong section ? ( (if so move it , maybe it needs to go into nutritions?. Didn’t see a fungicide/pesticide section)
 
B

Burned Haze

Guest
Yay

(Oh looks like it was moved to nutes and ferts )

Let’s get some opinions and information going cause this product def sounds interesting . I sure wish I could give a little but I have no experience with it and old threads ( but the people who recommended it were cap and some rep people )
 
G

Glow

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Its a bit like cracking a nut with a sledge hammer mate. Its a Group 4 fungicide which means it has long withholding periods and is systemic. Definitely a no no in med production and some states test for it in tissue analysis re med compliancy. It's active is Metalaxyl-M (also known as Mefenoxam which is what is listed on the label). Will cause phytotoxicity if overused (too high application rate) and/or used for too long. Few details on it here http://pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC35784
 
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Burned Haze

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Glow said:
Oh and to answer your question yes it has high efficiency in combatting root disease. It should never be used as a preventative though and should be seen only as a last line of defence when it all goes to shit and Pythium and/or Phytophthora present. Also pathogens also have a tendency to becoming resistant to it... I.e. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07060660809507500
Click to expand...

Great information, links and points. It’s also not accepted in any state/country for cannabis so I just wanted to make sure that no one had any logical info otherwise since that old thread about root rot was bragging about it with root shield. Thanks for going out the way and telling me what’s up!

I have 6 lb of root shield wp and I must say once I started using it on my seedling/clones ( it last in the plant for 10-12 weeks) that u-the plants rooted quicker /looked healthier and higher alive % than previous . So far sooo good
 
G

Glow

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The sad thing is mate that largely due to bad info being passed around that systemic fungicides are too commonly used by growers when in fact had growers applied best practice there is simply no need for them in the production of any crop. I was actually the first grow author who ever wrote about using Bennies in hydro settings in 2002 in a book Integral Hydroponics. It's actually saddened me to see over the years that very few growers took my advice but on the upside the benefits of bennies in recent years is starting to be recognized in the grow scene. Root Shield looks ideal being active T.harzianum which is a superb Bennie for preventing root disease. The other key thing to ensure is adequate oxygen in the root zone. Most root diseases in fact are caused by root zone oxygen starvation which creates an environment that is ideal for opportunistic pathogens to take hold.
 
G

Glow

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Regalia looks very good re toxicity potential to the end user. It basically acts to prime the plants immune system and isn't systemic (it's translaminar). The thing is though it's efficiency isn't as high as some of these nasties like Eagle 20 and Subdue Maxx and so a lot of growers who are looking for a one hit wonder prefer the nasties. I think the thing growers need to understand is that prevention through proactive cultural growing practices is the key to preventing root disease and other plant based fungi (botrytis and PM).

On VPD - yep its a handy tool to understand for growers. I recently published an article on it but it would be rude to link to it from here unless the mods approved this. The thing is though VPD is extremely good in environments where temperature fluctuations occur during the course of the day. In environments where a temperature is stable throughout the day VPD is really quite overkill because at any fixed air temperature there is an excellent inverse relationship between RH and VPD. So therefore growers really just need to establish optimum air temperature and RH for their genetics. As long as they can maintain the grow environment within these parameters temp and RH measurements considered separately are just as precise as VPD (which is simply a measurement that calculates temp and RH into a single value). Also, most will tell you to reduce humidity after flowers have developed to prevent molds/fungi regardless of what is considered optimum VPD. I.e. better to run less than optimum VPD than to have a crop under attack by PM etc.
 
3 balls

3 balls

582
143
Glow said:
Regalia looks very good re toxicity potential to the end user. It basically acts to prime the plants immune system and isn't systemic (it's translaminar). The thing is though it's efficiency isn't as high as some of these nasties like Eagle 20 and Subdue Maxx and so a lot of growers who are looking for a one hit wonder prefer the nasties. I think the thing growers need to understand is that prevention through proactive cultural growing practices is the key to preventing root disease and other plant based fungi (botrytis and PM).

On VPD - yep its a handy tool to understand for growers. I recently published an article on it but it would be rude to link to it from here unless the mods approved this. The thing is though VPD is extremely good in environments where temperature fluctuations occur during the course of the day. In environments where a temperature is stable throughout the day VPD is really quite overkill because at any fixed air temperature there is an excellent inverse relationship between RH and VPD. So therefore growers really just need to establish optimum air temperature and RH for their genetics. As long as they can maintain the grow environment within these parameters temp and RH measurements considered separately are just as precise as VPD (which is simply a measurement that calculates temp and RH into a single value). Also, most will tell you to reduce humidity after flowers have developed to prevent molds/fungi regardless of what is considered optimum VPD. I.e. better to run less than optimum VPD than to have a crop under attack by PM etc.
Click to expand...
For those that don't know, I.E. myself what do you mean by proactive cultural growing practices? Thanks
 
3 balls

3 balls

582
143
@1diesel1 Could Glow link an article an article on VPD pretty please?
Glow said:
Regalia looks very good re toxicity potential to the end user. It basically acts to prime the plants immune system and isn't systemic (it's translaminar). The thing is though it's efficiency isn't as high as some of these nasties like Eagle 20 and Subdue Maxx and so a lot of growers who are looking for a one hit wonder prefer the nasties. I think the thing growers need to understand is that prevention through proactive cultural growing practices is the key to preventing root disease and other plant based fungi (botrytis and PM).

On VPD - yep its a handy tool to understand for growers. I recently published an article on it but it would be rude to link to it from here unless the mods approved this. The thing is though VPD is extremely good in environments where temperature fluctuations occur during the course of the day. In environments where a temperature is stable throughout the day VPD is really quite overkill because at any fixed air temperature there is an excellent inverse relationship between RH and VPD. So therefore growers really just need to establish optimum air temperature and RH for their genetics. As long as they can maintain the grow environment within these parameters temp and RH measurements considered separately are just as precise as VPD (which is simply a measurement that calculates temp and RH into a single value). Also, most will tell you to reduce humidity after flowers have developed to prevent molds/fungi regardless of what is considered optimum VPD. I.e. better to run less than optimum VPD than to have a crop under attack by PM etc.
Click to expand...
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

Supporter
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Glow said:
With fungal pathogens it really comes down to keeping humidity at levels that don't promote their growth on the plant. In many cases this means purchasing a dehumidifier for the grow room. So for example (excerpt of something I've written)

Rapid temperature drops at night cause humidity to jump upward, often to extreme levels. This comes down to the dew point.



Put simply, dew point occurs because of the relationship between humidity and temperature and the fact that warm air can hold more water than cool air. Therefore, when the lights in the grow room go off and the temperature begins to drop the air contracts and RH increases because as molecules get closer together, less space exists between them to store water vapor. When the temperature drops to a point where there is more vapor in the air than it can hold, the humidity is forced out of the air. The dew point is, therefore, the point at which water begins falling out of the air. When dew point occurs, water droplets will form on any surface that is cooler than the air; in the case of a grow room, this can mean moisture begins forming on the plants. When this happens, the risk of mould spores germinating on the outer plant material increases.

……….…………….. And then you have daytime RH to consider also. Basically though you need to keep humidity low at nights and day when flowers are forming.

I mean there are also other things you can do such as install HEPA filtration to keep fungal spores out of the grow room but this is often a bit too tech and expensive for a lot of growers; however, I've consulted on a few large commercial grow operations and we have installed HEPA filtration and created fully sealed environments with great success (fungal spores are in the air everywhere in high numbers outdoors and HEPA filters keep them from entering a sealed indoor grow environment = no fungal spores indoors = no fungal pathogen outbreaks in the crop).
Click to expand...
@SinCity , I think you were looking for info like this last week...
 
3 balls

3 balls

582
143
Glow said:
With fungal pathogens it really comes down to keeping humidity at levels that don't promote their growth on the plant. In many cases this means purchasing a dehumidifier for the grow room. So for example (excerpt of something I've written)

Rapid temperature drops at night cause humidity to jump upward, often to extreme levels. This comes down to the dew point.



Put simply, dew point occurs because of the relationship between humidity and temperature and the fact that warm air can hold more water than cool air. Therefore, when the lights in the grow room go off and the temperature begins to drop the air contracts and RH increases because as molecules get closer together, less space exists between them to store water vapor. When the temperature drops to a point where there is more vapor in the air than it can hold, the humidity is forced out of the air. The dew point is, therefore, the point at which water begins falling out of the air. When dew point occurs, water droplets will form on any surface that is cooler than the air; in the case of a grow room, this can mean moisture begins forming on the plants. When this happens, the risk of mould spores germinating on the outer plant material increases.

……….…………….. And then you have daytime RH to consider also. Basically though you need to keep humidity low at nights and day when flowers are forming.

I mean there are also other things you can do such as install HEPA filtration to keep fungal spores out of the grow room but this is often a bit too tech and expensive for a lot of growers; however, I've consulted on a few large commercial grow operations and we have installed HEPA filtration and created fully sealed environments with great success (fungal spores are in the air everywhere in high numbers outdoors and HEPA filters keep them from entering a sealed indoor grow environment = no fungal spores indoors = no fungal pathogen outbreaks in the crop).
Click to expand...
Awesome stuff! Thanks
One more on topic and I will quit bothering you. When I use things like Regalia, Actinovate (biofungicides), are they not killing all the beneficial fungi that I add Mykos/Greatwhite, mycorrhizae?​
 
G

Glow

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43
Without checking it is possible; however a lot of fungicides are conducive with the use of bennies (i.e. you can safely use some fungicides with bennies; this one in itself can be complex because some bennies may be affected while others aren't.) What I would recommend is to contact the manufacturer of any product you use and ask them if there are compatibility issues.
 
SinCity

SinCity

899
243
Burned Haze said:
Anyone have a opinion on using Subdue Maxx and Rootshield WP together?

* subdue Maxx is listed on root shields wp manual as combine suggestion for success, also saw a few threads saying other wise.

* I realize that it’s not regulated for cannabis, for my understanding it looks pretty safe and quite a few top members were suggesting it on here about bad root molds ( along time ago thou). If you argue otherwise or could show proof not to use Subdue Maxx I’m sure a lot of people would want to know/ me too.


heres a old link for Subdue Maxx on thc farmer
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...se-here-everyday-fusarium-solani.51997/page-4
Click to expand...


i wish i had the time to like every single post by all the people on this site that just plain old love learning! sending big beautiful waves of happiness and kindness and love and gratitude to everyone on this site and on this planet! i can scarcely describe the joy of witnessing this revolution, this total transformation in the weed world...everything used to be SOOO tightly held and hoarded so it could be lorded over...very often WAY beyond what was necessary for safety or discretion or any other legitimate need....just love that people can ask honest questions and get honest answers...
 
SinCity

SinCity

899
243
Rootbound said:
@SinCity , I think you were looking for info like this last week...
Click to expand...

and @Rootbound, i wasn't so much looking for the info as i was looking for someone who also knew the info--inside out and up and down.

one hell of a smooth hand you got there...speaking volumes without having to say anything.
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

Premium Member
Supporter
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I believe what he meant is the use of beneficials in hydro. by practice growing and nurturing a microbe population in the rez. It used to be folks thought hydro could only be successful by keeping a surgically sterile enviro. But time and research has shown that this isn't the case. I will divest and allow @Glow to elaborate more. He is more knowledgeable than I.
 
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