The Best Weed!!!

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Farmer P

Farmer P

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Every elite clone came from a seed.
Of course that's true, but how many seeds were sprouted to find it? If it's 1 in 100 I'll probably eventually get one, but if it's one in 1000 my time would be better spent trying to find someone who already has one.
 
JWM2

JWM2

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Imo your time would be best spent looking for great genetics by existing breeders than trying to find a needle in a haystack.

You may never find a truly elite plant in your life. But that doesn’t mean you can’t grow some of the best weed on the market.

Genetics are overhyped imo. Will any of us ever find a “genius” or something on that level? Probably not.

I mean how many fake gorilla glue #4’s are out there right now being passed off as the real deal? How will you ever know if you have the real deal?

Until genetic testing is done by those who created them and by those who grow them we’ll never know for sure.

But that doesn’t mean you can’t grow great smoke. It feels like you’re chasing a shooting star. As with technology by the time you can get it, it’s obsolete. So your choice is to perpetually wait for the next thing or pick a spot and just start enjoying.

And sure next week someone else will have something they claim is better. But really what’s the point?

I mean if you want potency then you need concentrates. Plain and simple. I look for the best buzz, smell and taste. Something that I can enjoy. I don’t give two shits if it’s 2% or 80% THCa as long as I enjoy it.

Don’t get me wrong I get the envy of others. I do it all the time when I see photos and smoke reports. But I’m not going to go chasing those, I’ll just admire them and if someday I get a shot at trying them then great. If not there will always be something better around the corner.

Hell most of the strains I’m growing aren’t even close to elite and I’m probably the only one on here that would grow them. I’m trying to relive the early 2000s when I started. I just want to get that feeling back and will almost certainly fall short.

But it’s fun and I’ll enjoy the journey. That’s what it’s all about isn’t it? Having fun.
 
Farmer P

Farmer P

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Imo your time would be best spent looking for great genetics by existing breeders than trying to find a needle in a haystack.

You may never find a truly elite plant in your life. But that doesn’t mean you can’t grow some of the best weed on the market.

Genetics are overhyped imo. Will any of us ever find a “genius” or something on that level? Probably not.

I mean how many fake gorilla glue #4’s are out there right now being passed off as the real deal? How will you ever know if you have the real deal?

Until genetic testing is done by those who created them and by those who grow them we’ll never know for sure.

But that doesn’t mean you can’t grow great smoke. It feels like you’re chasing a shooting star. As with technology by the time you can get it, it’s obsolete. So your choice is to perpetually wait for the next thing or pick a spot and just start enjoying.

And sure next week someone else will have something they claim is better. But really what’s the point?

I mean if you want potency then you need concentrates. Plain and simple. I look for the best buzz, smell and taste. Something that I can enjoy. I don’t give two shits if it’s 2% or 80% THCa as long as I enjoy it.

Don’t get me wrong I get the envy of others. I do it all the time when I see photos and smoke reports. But I’m not going to go chasing those, I’ll just admire them and if someday I get a shot at trying them then great. If not there will always be something better around the corner.

Hell most of the strains I’m growing aren’t even close to elite and I’m probably the only one on here that would grow them. I’m trying to relive the early 2000s when I started. I just want to get that feeling back and will almost certainly fall short.

But it’s fun and I’ll enjoy the journey. That’s what it’s all about isn’t it? Having fun.

I feel you and I agree mostly. I dig spending time in my growroom and I love smoking weed. Like I said in the opening post I am growing really good weed, but I feel like it could be so much better. It is somewhat frustrating to know what I am looking for and not be able to find it. I think I'll eventually get there but it would be nice if I could get there quicker lol.
 
Farmer P

Farmer P

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The journey is ok, but growing the best weed would be better lol.

 
JWM2

JWM2

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If you’re fixated on the destination / goal, you’ll miss all the fun along the way.

I personally don’t care if I ever grow any elites. The stuff I grow is leaps and bounds better than the elites I’ve bought at the local dispensary.

You might not fully appreciate your own until you try someone else’s.

I’ve had elite genetics grown like shit. And I’ve grown shit genetics to their fullest potential. Both equally suck.
 
Daikokuten

Daikokuten

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Alright, this is gonna be general and not to be taken as law, i'll also probably be casual with language so be critical when reading it. I apologize if my privacy settings prevent pms, i'll check that after this and pm you myself farmerp.

Gonna start with the seed thing. I think elites, by the standards of outstanding in scent, structure, and potency, are probably around 1 in 10000 or worse. I think you can find a plant that will be an elite to you, in your growroom, from quality seeds at about 1 in 100. The choice of if that's worth it to you or not is your call. I would keep in mind that there's only a small amount of knowledge and work preventing one from generating their own, using the same genetics basically, for pennies. Every calyx can be a seed. Out of 100 quality seeds, you'll likely find potency, flavor, and structure, but maybe not all on the same plant. Elites aren't perfect either so maybe elites are more 1 in 100, i can't say. I can say that with a single 315cmh or 400w hps/mh you can grow 100 seeds in cups in a 4x4 area and probably find multiple plants you care for and don't want to give up easily. There is a bit of work with trimming and checking for herms, but it sub 20 minutes a day once you're used to it. And, if you research the science, you can learn to make plants grow large right into 1212 in half filled solo cups. You'll only get an eighth a plant if you want to regenerate it though cause you'll be afraid of killing it lol. For anyone wondering, i'm not totally sure of the size limiting but i do know that nitrogen fixing, microbes, and hormones from kelp work for me and i believe are scientifically sound.

Into taste, smell, sticky, resin and terpenes. We know that flavonoids and terpenes, part of the resin, are what generate smell and flavor. We dont know too much more than that definitively lol. Im gonna preface this by saying i disregard most myths and tropes because i've tested them, you haven't. Don't just trust me, research and correct me! Anyways, all myths aside, science tends to lean towards the fact that resin has certain uses, and that a healthy plant does what it does best. Therefore, a seedling has a predetermined expression it's going to put out. It will put that out "best", or most honestly, at it's healthiest. As far as how much it's going to stink, taste, and how, that's genetically determined. You will only express those genetics honestly, if the plant is at the limiting level of health to express those. Too sick, no stink. Therefore, the goal is to grow the healthiest plants possible to fairly judge their expression. In my experience, you can have lightly burned tips in flower(my previous photo would be considered pushing it to me but ive been bedridden and so others grew that with direction(not always properly haha)), but anything more compromises the honesty of the expression. If you want to find a winner, you gotta be able to grow lots of plants and keep them all 90%+ healthy imo. That's not as hard as it seems, but there's definitely a curve. You can't just buy an elite and bypass all this though, it'll come up again and again.

One final note about seeds and hunting elites. If you're looking for only amazing plants, 80% don't make it past week 3. They gotta be banging vigorous to be elite. Most real elites are stumbled on so to speak. That's true for me, Chemdog, and mac off the top of my head. If i could go back in time, i'd make and pop seeds in half my room and produce in the other half from day one. I love to buy whatever seeds strike my fancy and then do a big mixed batch, there are no rules here.
 
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JWM2

JWM2

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Let’s define elite. Elite is what others want but cannot obtain. Once it’s obtainable it’s no longer elite.

Take for example 15-20 years ago.

Sour D, OG Kush, Bubba Kush, Trainwreck, Purple Urkle, Cali-O, and others have all at one time been considered “elite”.

Are they still elite by today’s standards? No because they have been obtained by many.

Are the strains of today any better than those elites? Imo the answer to that is no as well.

We’ve been using selective breeding for quite some time and have reached what I consider to be moores law in cannabis in terms of potency.

And really who even gives a shit about potency any more? Why do we need to be knocked unconscious everytime we smoke a bowl?

Is there not room in the market for more flavors of beer? Is one beer better than another? Is anyone bragging about the potency of their beer? Why would anyone brag about the potency of beer when grain alcohol will knock you on your ass? Do you drink nothing but grain alcohol everytime you get drunk? Why as growers are we constantly striving for 100% THCa levels then? It makes no sense.

So what makes an elite? Envy. Plain and simple.
 
Farmer P

Farmer P

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Alright, this is gonna be general and not to be taken as law, i'll also probably be casual with language so be critical when reading it. I apologize if my privacy settings prevent pms, i'll check that after this and pm you myself farmerp.

Gonna start with the seed thing. I think elites, by the standards of outstanding in scent, structure, and potency, are probably around 1 in 10000 or worse. I think you can find a plant that will be an elite to you, in your growroom, from quality seeds at about 1 in 100. The choice of if that's worth it to you or not is your call. I would keep in mind that there's only a small amount of knowledge and work preventing one from generating their own, using the same genetics basically, for pennies. Every calyx can be a seed. Out of 100 quality seeds, you'll likely find potency, flavor, and structure, but maybe not all on the same plant. Elites aren't perfect either so maybe elites are more 1 in 100, i can't say. I can say that with a single 315cmh or 400w hps/mh you can grow 100 seeds in cups in a 4x4 area and probably find multiple plants you care for and don't want to give up easily. There is a bit of work with trimming and checking for herms, but it sub 20 minutes a day once you're used to it. And, if you research the science, you can learn to make plants grow large right into 1212 in half filled solo cups. You'll only get an eighth a plant if you want to regenerate it though cause you'll be afraid of killing it lol. For anyone wondering, i'm not totally sure of the size limiting but i do know that nitrogen fixing, microbes, and hormones from kelp work for me and i believe are scientifically sound.

Into taste, smell, sticky, resin and terpenes. We know that flavonoids and terpenes, part of the resin, are what generate smell and flavor. We dont know too much more than that definitively lol. Im gonna preface this by saying i disregard most myths and tropes because i've tested them, you haven't. Don't just trust me, research and correct me! Anyways, all myths aside, science tends to lean towards the fact that resin has certain uses, and that a healthy plant does what it does best. Therefore, a seedling has a predetermined expression it's going to put out. It will put that out "best", or most honestly, at it's healthiest. As far as how much it's going to stink, taste, and how, that's genetically determined. You will only express those genetics honestly, if the plant is at the limiting level of health to express those. Too sick, no stink. Therefore, the goal is to grow the healthiest plants possible to fairly judge their expression. In my experience, you can have lightly burned tips in flower(my previous photo would be considered pushing it to me but ive been bedridden and so others grew that with direction(not always properly haha)), but anything more compromises the honesty of the expression. If you want to find a winner, you gotta be able to grow lots of plants and keep them all 90%+ healthy imo. That's not as hard as it seems, but there's definitely a curve. You can't just buy an elite and bypass all this though, it'll come up again and again.

One final note about seeds and hunting elites. If you're looking for only amazing plants, 80% don't make it past week 3. They gotta be banging vigorous to be elite. Most real elites are stumbled on so to speak. That's true for me, Chemdog, and mac off the top of my head. If i could go back in time, i'd make and pop seeds in half my room and produce in the other half from day one. I love to buy whatever seeds strike my fancy and then do a big mixed batch, there are no rules here.

Excelent response. I have spent countless hours trying to figure this out. I've read so many posts on this site, rollitup, icmag, etc. I've spent days studying terpenes and everything I can find on them. I've come to the conclusion that it's either in the genes of the plant or there is something I'm missing which very well may be the case. I will continue to try to grow my plants the best I can and keep in mind that there may be deficiencies there that my eyes can't pick up on. Maybe just because the plant looks great all the way through there is still something missing? Or maybe (and I hate to go here) there is a secret addative or technique that no one is going to tell you for obvious reasons. I would hate to be wasting my time looking for something that doesn't exist. When you say "80% don't make it past week 3" are you refering to week 3 veg or flower? And if flower what are you looking for to qualify them? Bud size, smell, frost, all the above lol. Thanks.
 
Daikokuten

Daikokuten

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Let’s define elite. Elite is what others want but cannot obtain. Once it’s obtainable it’s no longer elite.

Take for example 15-20 years ago.

Sour D, OG Kush, Bubba Kush, Trainwreck, Purple Urkle, Cali-O, and others have all at one time been considered “elite”.

Are they still elite by today’s standards? No because they have been obtained by many.

Are the strains of today any better than those elites? Imo the answer to that is no as well.

We’ve been using selective breeding for quite some time and have reached what I consider to be moores law in cannabis in terms of potency.

And really who even gives a shit about potency any more? Why do we need to be knocked unconscious everytime we smoke a bowl?

Is there not room in the market for more flavors of beer? Is one beer better than another? Is anyone bragging about the potency of their beer? Why would anyone brag about the potency of beer when grain alcohol will knock you on your ass? Do you drink nothing but grain alcohol everytime you get drunk? Why as growers are we constantly striving for 100% THCa levels then? It makes no sense.

So what makes an elite? Envy. Plain and simple.
I love this post but it doesn't make me decide any easier if elites are 1in100 or 1in10000. People do brag about alcohol potency though. But then they call higher potency coolers weak. I stand with you on its all about bs emotion. Crystal amount is the big seed seller right now. Cookies redefined it, and now mac is. People will blindly buy seeds when the breeder starts posting mac level crystals.
 
Daikokuten

Daikokuten

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Excelent response. I have spent countless hours trying to figure this out. I've read so many posts on this site, rollitup, icmag, etc. I've spent days studying terpenes and everything I can find on them. I've come to the conclusion that it's either in the genes of the plant or there is something I'm missing which very well may be the case. I will continue to try to grow my plants the best I can and keep in mind that there may be deficiencies there that my eyes can't pick up on. Maybe just because the plant looks great all the way through there is still something missing? Or maybe (and I hate to go here) there is a secret addative or technique that no one is going to tell you for obvious reasons. I would hate to be wasting my time looking for something that doesn't exist. When you say "80% don't make it past week 3" are you refering to week 3 veg or flower? And if flower what are you looking for to qualify them? Bud size, smell, frost, all the above lol. Thanks.
3 weeks of life, veg. Cause you can usually tell if they're indica small or ass by then, if they're elitely vigorous anyways. Maybe 4 or 5. You can't qualify an elite until you smoke and grow it at least 3 times and different ways. You have to get it tested multiple times, hopefully without shipping, something i can't do currently. Ive tested almost every product and used to service gardens, there are no secrets. The biggest secret is that cannabis is most like lettuce and not difficult to grow. If you want to know what additives matter, i can tell you that. Silica, kelp(cytokinins), humates, sugars and microbes. Science knows this but not totally why. But, some of the best weed is grown without all of these. Let's be real here, it's mostly genetics. Anybody who has grown a ton of seeds would say that imo. It's playing the plant lottery. I don't play the financial lottery though.
 
JWM2

JWM2

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I and many others remember a phenomenon in the early to mid 2000s on cbay. A group of breeders in a collective called Dutch Flowers emerged and their seeds were ultra limited. One or two packs of each strain were released. They were so hyped that routinely their packs would sell for 3-10k per pack of 10 seeds.

Did any elites come from those packs of seeds? Yes and no.

When the hype was there sure every pheno in every pack was considered elite and something to have and brag about. Folks would buy them, f2 them and resell them on cbay and folks would nab them up left and right.

So much so that a guy who went by the name “subcool” emerged from it and started his own company years later from the proceeds.

How do I know this? I photoshopped his cbay images in exchange for free f2 seeds so I could try them as they came out. I couldn’t afford the F1s but by doing some side work for him I was able to obtain several f2 versions of them.

That being said once the hype died down when cannabisworld, heavens stairway and cbay were shut down they were no longer sought after.

Strains like Chocolate Trip, Venomberry, Green Napalm have been used in crosses but nobody is out there looking for those cuts anymore.

And there ya have it. An elite is just something others want but can not afford or obtain because it’s not available.

Elites are tickle me Elmo or hatchimals at Christmas time. No better or worse than the next toy and yet folks will go to any length to get them.
 
Farmer P

Farmer P

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Let’s define elite. Elite is what others want but cannot obtain. Once it’s obtainable it’s no longer elite.

Take for example 15-20 years ago.

Sour D, OG Kush, Bubba Kush, Trainwreck, Purple Urkle, Cali-O, and others have all at one time been considered “elite”.

Are they still elite by today’s standards? No because they have been obtained by many.

Are the strains of today any better than those elites? Imo the answer to that is no as well.

We’ve been using selective breeding for quite some time and have reached what I consider to be moores law in cannabis in terms of potency.

And really who even gives a shit about potency any more? Why do we need to be knocked unconscious everytime we smoke a bowl?

Is there not room in the market for more flavors of beer? Is one beer better than another? Is anyone bragging about the potency of their beer? Why would anyone brag about the potency of beer when grain alcohol will knock you on your ass? Do you drink nothing but grain alcohol everytime you get drunk? Why as growers are we constantly striving for 100% THCa levels then? It makes no sense.

So what makes an elite? Envy. Plain and simple.

One thing I would say about that and any noobs out there should listen up. Like you said earlier about how many gg4's are out there and how many are real, just because someone calls there weed gg4 doesn't mean it really is. People buy a pack of seeds called gg4 and grow them out and call them gg4. They should be calling them gg4 s1 or f1 etc. I think this causes a lot of confusion. So forget the name, you can only tell by trying it out as far as I'm concerned. There is a certain (I call it chronic) flavor that has to be there for me to consider it elite. I don't know if it's a flavor or just a terpene that can sort of be tasted in the throat and lungs, but it has to be there and that's what I'm looking for. The fact that no one seems to be able to explain it right makes me think there is a conspiracy lol. I would bet that every cannabis cup winner has what I'm talking about. To get right down to it I would ask if that is purely genetic or if that is something that can be added somehow. I think the answer is both. There are some that will have it naturally and those are the elite ones we'd all love to have and there are some that will have it if you know what you are doing to make it happen. A buddy of mine grew one of my bubba clones and got it to have it although not super strong but it was at least there. The problem is he doesn't know how he got it and can't do it again.
 
F

FutureGrower

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I dont get why you guys think big corporations are smart for going for clones. You go into a grocery store and have 5 or 6 different tomato variatals of bleh. Even avacados in stores dont taste great. Eggs have to be sorted by size for whatever silly reason...

We grew accustom to what a tomato is but if you try a variatal you'll get a brand new flavor maybe better maybe worse... but I would love to goto california and have different quality and flavors than in oregon or anywhere else... but I guess amendments and minerals change flavor too
 
Daikokuten

Daikokuten

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One thing I would say about that and any noobs out there should listen up. Like you said earlier about how many gg4's are out there and how many are real, just because someone calls there weed gg4 doesn't mean it really is. People buy a pack of seeds called gg4 and grow them out and call them gg4. They should be calling them gg4 s1 or f1 etc. I think this causes a lot of confusion. So forget the name, you can only tell by trying it out as far as I'm concerned. There is a certain (I call it chronic) flavor that has to be there for me to consider it elite. I don't know if it's a flavor or just a terpene that can sort of be tasted in the throat and lungs, but it has to be there and that's what I'm looking for. The fact that no one seems to be able to explain it right makes me think there is a conspiracy lol. I would bet that every cannabis cup winner has what I'm talking about. To get right down to it I would ask if that is purely genetic or if that is something that can be added somehow. I think the answer is both. There are some that will have it naturally and those are the elite ones we'd all love to have and there are some that will have it if you know what you are doing to make it happen. A buddy of mine grew one of my bubba clones and got it to have it although not super strong but it was at least there. The problem is he doesn't know how he got it and can't do it again.
Ive been in cannabis cup winning gardens and am personal friends with a couple winners. There could be a conspiracy, but i would bet my life that it doesn't have to do with this side of it. The way to win a cannabis cup these days is money, personal connections, and ability to market and be at shows. Hightimes has absolutely no credibility to me at all, and those events are not what they seem. They're just money makers and marketing, like a boat show. I would say that if cannabis cups were real, people like cap and csi:humboldt would be way more famous, years ago. It's so hard to measure this stuff, but i tend to go by the breeders character, their work, and my senses vs. anything where money is involved.
 
Farmer P

Farmer P

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3 weeks of life, veg. Cause you can usually tell if they're indica small or ass by then, if they're elitely vigorous anyways. Maybe 4 or 5. You can't qualify an elite until you smoke and grow it at least 3 times and different ways. You have to get it tested multiple times, hopefully without shipping, something i can't do currently. Ive tested almost every product and used to service gardens, there are no secrets. The biggest secret is that cannabis is most like lettuce and not difficult to grow. If you want to know what additives matter, i can tell you that. Silica, kelp(cytokinins), humates, sugars and microbes. Science knows this but not totally why. But, some of the best weed is grown without all of these. Let's be real here, it's mostly genetics. Anybody who has grown a ton of seeds would say that imo. It's playing the plant lottery. I don't play the financial lottery though.
I just got in some sea-90. I also dabble with seaweed and fish ferts. The sea-90 seems to have made my compost tea really jump off.
 
JWM2

JWM2

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One thing I would say about that and any noobs out there should listen up. Like you said earlier about how many gg4's are out there and how many are real, just because someone calls there weed gg4 doesn't mean it really is. People buy a pack of seeds called gg4 and grow them out and call them gg4. They should be calling them gg4 s1 or f1 etc. I think this causes a lot of confusion. So forget the name, you can only tell by trying it out as far as I'm concerned. There is a certain (I call it chronic) flavor that has to be there for me to consider it elite. I don't know if it's a flavor or just a terpene that can sort of be tasted in the throat and lungs, but it has to be there and that's what I'm looking for. The fact that no one seems to be able to explain it right makes me think there is a conspiracy lol. I would bet that every cannabis cup winner has what I'm talking about. To get right down to it I would ask if that is purely genetic or if that is something that can be added somehow. I think the answer is both. There are some that will have it naturally and those are the elite ones we'd all love to have and there are some that will have it if you know what you are doing to make it happen. A buddy of mine grew one of my bubba clones and got it to have it although not super strong but it was at least there. The problem is he doesn't know how he got it and can't do it again.

But you can’t even quantify what you are looking for. How do we quantify “it”? Is it a flavor profile? Is it a potency? Is it a combination of the two? Or is it just the pile of gold at the end of a rainbow?

Does a cannabis cup winner mean it’s elite?

Don’t you think that companies pay out good money to win these awards to bolster seed sales?

If you want to chase rainbows and unicorns by all means I won’t stop ya. But don’t expect me to join in the hunt either. I’ve chased rainbows and unicorns before.

I’m older and wiser now.
 
JWM2

JWM2

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And don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to put you down in anyway or deter you from the hunt. I’m just hoping you’ll stop for a minute and start enjoying the journey you’re already on. Down the road you’ll thank me for it.
 
Farmer P

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But you can’t even quantify what you are looking for. How do we quantify “it”? Is it a flavor profile? Is it a potency? Is it a combination of the two? Or is it just the pile of gold at the end of a rainbow?

Does a cannabis cup winner mean it’s elite?

Don’t you think that companies pay out good money to win these awards to bolster seed sales?

If you want to chase rainbows and unicorns by all means I won’t stop ya. But don’t expect me to join in the hunt either. I’ve chased rainbows and unicorns before.

I’m older and wiser now.

Well like I said someone figured it out and put it in a sucker lol. I get what you are saying, but I don't give up easily and will always be trying to grow better weed. Even when I find my elite cut I'll be tinkering with it to see if I can make it better lol.
 
JWM2

JWM2

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Well like I said someone figured it out and put it in a sucker lol. I get what you are saying, but I don't give up easily and will always be trying to grow better weed. Even when I find my elite cut I'll be tinkering with it to see if I can make it better lol.

As you should. We all strive for better. Everything living does. That’s how we evolve. Good luck to you. I hope you find what you’re looking for :)
 
Daikokuten

Daikokuten

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I just got in some sea-90. I also dabble with seaweed and fish ferts. The sea-90 seems to have made my compost tea really jump off.
Seagreen sponsors the photo of the month here and i use it personally at 1/4tsp./gal. every other day and using my own tests, it has replaced all my other kelp,humic, and microbe products. I've looked at it under a microscope but it's so good i still fear they got something in there lol. I grow a lot of different ways but i'm trying tostay relevant to you, which i think is soillless indoor salts and additives. That way, i now use a simple "300mix" of 1/2tsp. Ksi(armorsi),flora micro, flora bloom each. I do 300mix one day, 1/4tsp. Seagreen the other. In w5 i add dextrose(sugar) at 1/4tsp. on the seagreen days. On my ig, most photos are grown with that. I change the ksi often with whatever i get free or cheap, same with the npk. I will be purchasing seagreen when i run out though. All my growing and i haven't even used 32oz. up yet and i use it in veg also. Most even large plants will have very slight tip burn from this if you don't add some water days based on runoff ppm, color, and experience though.

Wanted to edit some quick stuff in. 300mix is usually 280ppm in ro, not actually 300. On the seagreen days i water without runoff. Half your salts are unused. The idea is to chelate and use/break them down with microbes and humates from the seagreen on the water days. When feeding salts i water with considerable runoff. Usually i water until it's pouring fully out the bottom with ease. If you're noid about tip burn, half the micro and give daily. The available nitrogen in most npks is the primary cause of tip burn in healthy plants.
 
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