The Birth Of Indoor No Till Gardening

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JMcG

JMcG

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No it hasn't, I'm trying as is organiks and a couple others. I'm stoked you're here, stick around and share that knowledge you have!

@Organikz @brazel @RanchoDeluxe
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE continue on with spreading the wealth of knowledge you all posses on organic No Till gardening!
I am sure I can't be the only one here on the farm who wants to make the change. Over the years I went from soil to many types of hydro, hydro back down to coco, and now I'm really interested in heading down the No Till path. What I am really excited about, albeit pretty intimidated by, is opening myself up to a whole new realm of indoor gardening. I have always found the learning process behind growing cannabis to be a kind of addiction for me... and I'm ready for a new drug!
I am stoked to hear about reusing the soil, as this was the reason I ditched it many years ago.
As a no till newb... I am also appreciative of the companies such as BAS who are helping out as best they know how. Sourcing all the components I have seen listed and storing them in my limited space would be difficult to do right off the bat, so a pre mix version is probably where I would like to start.
Anyway, please carry on gentlemen.... it's winter now and I plan on holing up next to the fire and learning me some organic no till gardening!
Peace
 
brazel

brazel

2,527
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@Organikz @brazel @RanchoDeluxe
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE continue on with spreading the wealth of knowledge you all posses on organic No Till gardening!
I am sure I can't be the only one here on the farm who wants to make the change. Over the years I went from soil to many types of hydro, hydro back down to coco, and now I'm really interested in heading down the No Till path. What I am really excited about, albeit pretty intimidated by, is opening myself up to a whole new realm of indoor gardening. I have always found the learning process behind growing cannabis to be a kind of addiction for me... and I'm ready for a new drug!
I am stoked to hear about reusing the soil, as this was the reason I ditched it many years ago.
As a no till newb... I am also appreciative of the companies such as BAS who are helping out as best they know how. Sourcing all the components I have seen listed and storing them in my limited space would be difficult to do right off the bat, so a pre mix version is probably where I would like to start.
Anyway, please carry on gentlemen.... it's winter now and I plan on holing up next to the fire and learning me some organic no till gardening!
Peace
Thank you, I really appreciate that
Any help questions or advice feel free to hit me up
 
R

RanchoDeluxe

105
63
@Organikz @brazel @RanchoDeluxe
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE continue on with spreading the wealth of knowledge you all posses on organic No Till gardening!
I am sure I can't be the only one here on the farm who wants to make the change. Over the years I went from soil to many types of hydro, hydro back down to coco, and now I'm really interested in heading down the No Till path. What I am really excited about, albeit pretty intimidated by, is opening myself up to a whole new realm of indoor gardening. I have always found the learning process behind growing cannabis to be a kind of addiction for me... and I'm ready for a new drug!
I am stoked to hear about reusing the soil, as this was the reason I ditched it many years ago.
As a no till newb... I am also appreciative of the companies such as BAS who are helping out as best they know how. Sourcing all the components I have seen listed and storing them in my limited space would be difficult to do right off the bat, so a pre mix version is probably where I would like to start.
Anyway, please carry on gentlemen.... it's winter now and I plan on holing up next to the fire and learning me some organic no till gardening!
Peace
Your dry amendments can be purchased at Planet Natural in 4-6lb boxes or 50lb sacks. They carry Oly Mt compost too. It will be far cheaper than BAS. I know the owners of both companies. Both of them wouldn't hesitate for a second, if they could sell their mothers soul to the devil.
RD
 
brazel

brazel

2,527
263
Your dry amendments can be purchased at Planet Natural in 4-6lb boxes or 50lb sacks. They carry Oly Mt compost too. It will be far cheaper than BAS. I know the owners of both companies. Both of them wouldn't hesitate for a second, if they could sell their mothers soul to the devil.
RD
Haha I try to tell them this! Remember when he first started talking about bas and what it is now!! like whoa! It's all business now! I'll still scoop up from there occasionally, but fuck he sure sells everything!
I had to take a break, I need to join you on being more calm ha
 
Jasper Geist

Jasper Geist

80
33
Haha I try to tell them this! Remember when he first started talking about bas and what it is now!! like whoa! It's all business now! I'll still scoop up from there occasionally, but fuck he sure sells everything!
I had to take a break, I need to join you on being more calm ha

To be fair and to give props where props are deserved... I just ordered from BAS for the first time (2 weeks ago) on my first organic grow - I'm a bottle guy - and they let me know that many of the organic amendments I thought I needed weren't needed as their LOS was good to go out of the bag. They lost money on this purchase and I have to respect the fact that they were willing to do that. They are bigger business than the last time I looked at their products a year ago but from what I can tell they are providing good customer service. That's refreshing in this business. Oh... and organic? I'm liking how this new grow is going. It's like learning all over again. Good times :)
 
brazel

brazel

2,527
263
To be fair and to give props where props are deserved... I just ordered from BAS for the first time (2 weeks ago) on my first organic grow - I'm a bottle guy - and they let me know that many of the organic amendments I thought I needed weren't needed as their LOS was good to go out of the bag. They lost money on this purchase and I have to respect the fact that they were willing to do that. They are bigger business than the last time I looked at their products a year ago but from what I can tell they are providing good customer service. That's refreshing in this business. Oh... and organic? I'm liking how this new grow is going. It's like learning all over again. Good times :)
Yeah you got soil ready to go. I recommend that as a easy way to jump in and get stoked!
It's not that he's a bad guy, he's cool. it's that when all this started taking off it was about minimal inputs and not buying product and now he sells those products... it's business. Half those products three years ago he'd never recommend. Business grows. All that extra stuff isn't needed, but you can use it!
High five on the new adventure bro, stoked for you
 
K

kansabis

1,427
263
I mean I could sell crack and not use it and even recommend that others don't use it,jus bidness lol
 
C

CaptainT

1
1
I mean I could sell crack and not use it and even recommend that others don't use it,jus bidness lol


Wow thats a bold statement, you try surviving off a business selling peat, pumice and a few floured grains/seaweed. Theres more than one way to grow and the consumer will always be the one to decide whats on those shelves in the long term. I suggest you keep an open mind if you really want to grow your plants to their full potential. Coots mix is a nice place to start. Products like biochar and the whole no till gardening concept have been around forever, these are things my grandma used in her gardening. Play around with bsf frass or lacto ferments and watch those terps and disease resistance increase. Start feeding your soil food web not your plant.
 
testiclees

testiclees

230
63
Did i miss something? 50 posts about no till recycled soil and no mention of soil testing.
Recycling soil without verifying that base saturation, micro and traces are in range is not best practice. Using the same nutes and amendments over and over without soil analysis will create the very common, quality killing condition of excess K, Mg , Fe and low Ca, Mn. Certainly every garden is a little different but working without analysis, particularly with recycled soil, is an amateur error.
 
R

RanchoDeluxe

105
63
Did i miss something? 50 posts about no till recycled soil and no mention of soil testing.
Recycling soil without verifying that base saturation, micro and traces are in range is not best practice. Using the same nutes and amendments over and over without soil analysis will create the very common, quality killing condition of excess K, Mg , Fe and low Ca, Mn. Certainly every garden is a little different but working without analysis, particularly with recycled soil, is an amateur error.

I think you've missed the boat amigo!

I've got 40 yards of soil that I can assure you will do quite fine without a soil test.
I had done many bioassays with the same soil mix and no till practices. One lasting in a no till for four years and only ending because I chose to shut it down. This knowledge is far more helpful than any soil test.
Soil tests are difficult for your average person to understand and interpret. They do not tell the entire story either. No till gardening is a proven system and can be easily replicated.
Happy Growing

RD
IMG 20180121 104410057 HDR
IMG 20180220 134339007
 
Polar510

Polar510

892
243
Hey fellas whats up! Just about ready to kick off a no till after this run. I mixed a batch of amended soil last year and threw it in a giant tote with some worms, should be good to go:)
I am in the middle of Fukuoka's Book the One-Straw Revolution. And have been gardening with these principles on the outside garden. The amount of Work You save in the long run is awesome.
I have a couple question's for You:
Do You pop seeds in Your soil?
Do You move Clones directly to Your Soil?
In other words is there a buffer for younger less established plants?
I have some clones and new seedling's lined up for this and want the transition as smooth as possible.
My soil Might be to hot is why I am asking.
I was thinking of getting some light warrior for the plastic cup stage of life or happy frog.
 
testiclees

testiclees

230
63
I think you've missed the boat amigo!

I've got 40 yards of soil that I can assure you will do quite fine without a soil test.
I had done many bioassays with the same soil mix and no till practices. One lasting in a no till for four years and only ending because I chose to shut it down. This knowledge is far more helpful than any soil test.
Soil tests are difficult for your average person to understand and interpret. They do not tell the entire story either. No till gardening is a proven system and can be easily replicated.
Happy Growing

RDView attachment 779919 View attachment 779918

Little RD, sailor on the ship of tools.

barrel_goat.jpg

Braggart are you frightened of science?
 
R

RanchoDeluxe

105
63
Little RD, sailor on the ship of tools.
barrel_goat.jpg

Braggart are you frightened of science?

Due to the very nature and design of the soil we create an extremely high CEC is inevitable and one of our main goals. Soil Test Interpretation 101 discusses how soils with a high CEC will need large amounts of fertilizer or lime to have any effect on a soil test. Nearly rendering the test mute by this simple fact alone.

Percent Base Saturation is a subject that even leading agronomists with PhD's disagree upon. One group says cations need to be present in specific ratios. Another group believes the presence of these cations is all that is necessary and that the ratios are irrelevant. This also plays into the confusion about how to even rectify a soil test or if it's even lacking to begin with.

How about the fact that a typical soil test doesn't measure every cation anyway?

Man took on the quest of agriculture many moons ago, long before the invention of the soil test. Unknowingly choosing areas with high CEC and humic content in river floodplains. Use of animal manures also helped create these same conditions.

Looking forward to the scientific discussion that this may lead to and I also appreciate your humor. I'm sure you're a really funny guy.
Thanks.

RD
 
DirtyPharms

DirtyPharms

2
3
Did i miss something? 50 posts about no till recycled soil and no mention of soil testing.
Recycling soil without verifying that base saturation, micro and traces are in range is not best practice. Using the same nutes and amendments over and over without soil analysis will create the very common, quality killing condition of excess K, Mg , Fe and low Ca, Mn. Certainly every garden is a little different but working without analysis, particularly with recycled soil, is an amateur error.

With this being a common constant, and with many visual identifications, could one not dump K (Mg as well to a lesser extent) using gypsum (simultaneously raising Ca,) and/or bring Mn up using Mn sulfate or a product like Big 6 in incremental quantities of known safe doses? I agree with your observation, but my experience has been that it's easy enough to fix when you get the basic concept of CEC. Cover/companion crops, stable humus, and diverse microbiology seem to do much of this bio remediation without need of our intervention, given the appropriate environment and enough time. I'm familiar with work in brix/albrecht/slownickel's findings, but have you found any studies on high CEC soils and application of these ratios? I understand how difficult it would be to shift the ratios at this level, but I'm curious if there's any side by side of say a 30+ CEC soil at different Ca saturations.

Due to the very nature and design of the soil we create an extremely high CEC is inevitable and one of our main goals. Soil Test Interpretation 101 discusses how soils with a high CEC will need large amounts of fertilizer or lime to have any effect on a soil test. Nearly rendering the test mute by this simple fact alone.

Percent Base Saturation is a subject that even leading agronomists with PhD's disagree upon. One group says cations need to be present in specific ratios. Another group believes the presence of these cations is all that is necessary and that the ratios are irrelevant. This also plays into the confusion about how to even rectify a soil test or if it's even lacking to begin with.

How about the fact that a typical soil test doesn't measure every cation anyway?

Man took on the quest of agriculture many moons ago, long before the invention of the soil test. Unknowingly choosing areas with high CEC and humic content in river floodplains. Use of animal manures also helped create these same conditions.

Looking forward to the scientific discussion that this may lead to and I also appreciate your humor. I'm sure you're a really funny guy.
Thanks.

RD

This is where it gets interesting.. In theory, both camps could be right. These are just my thoughts, but I think in lower - mid CEC soils ratios matter considerably more. Once you pass a threshold, it's more of a "if it's there, and not in toxic levels" kind of thing. Sometimes we get so focused on percentages we forget those are accounting for a vastly different total level of nutrients. Maybe certain ppms are more of baseline requirement in a given media than an exact ratio, but I don't know
 
G gnome

G gnome

20,448
638
With this being a common constant, and with many visual identifications, could one not dump K (Mg as well to a lesser extent) using gypsum (simultaneously raising Ca,) and/or bring Mn up using Mn sulfate or a product like Big 6 in incremental quantities of known safe doses? I agree with your observation, but my experience has been that it's easy enough to fix when you get the basic concept of CEC. Cover/companion crops, stable humus, and diverse microbiology seem to do much of this bio remediation without need of our intervention, given the appropriate environment and enough time. I'm familiar with work in brix/albrecht/slownickel's findings, but have you found any studies on high CEC soils and application of these ratios? I understand how difficult it would be to shift the ratios at this level, but I'm curious if there's any side by side of say a 30+ CEC soil at different Ca saturations.



This is where it gets interesting.. In theory, both camps could be right. These are just my thoughts, but I think in lower - mid CEC soils ratios matter considerably more. Once you pass a threshold, it's more of a "if it's there, and not in toxic levels" kind of thing. Sometimes we get so focused on percentages we forget those are accounting for a vastly different total level of nutrients. Maybe certain ppms are more of baseline requirement in a given media than an exact ratio, but I don't know
Thought u were done w the farm man?
 
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