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The Myth That Enzymes & Vitamins Additives Are Necessary For Growing Cannabis

Discussion in 'Nutrients and Fertilizers' started by Judaz, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. Judaz

    Judaz

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    Nutrients are essential for your cannabis growth but the reality is that you don't really need to add all the additives nutrient companies recommend in order to get great yields and quality. Especially when growing in soiless hydro methods. Now don't get me wrong at minimum you need your Base nutrient and bloom booster to achieve your results but the additives are not that important if your nutrient formula and technique is dialed in.

    Aside from your base nutrients and bloom booster most nutrient companies recommend adding enzymes, vitamins, chelates, silica and carbohydrates to produce the best results but experience has taught me otherwise. My philosophy for nutrient feeding is "Less is more" Early in my growing career I would buy the works and still not achieve the results I get today with minimal additives. I don'y use dirt and I bet you I'll get a better product than you soil growers too. For me growing is soil is for newbies not experts.

    I don't use enzymes, I don't use vitamins, I don't use flushing agents why? Because I know how to dial in my nutes for the given environment that I'm growing in. I rarely flush, throughout my cycle and I don't flush the last week either. And I save a grip of cash by recirculating my nutrients. With cannabis prices going down, running a run to waste cycle and or growing in dirt for me is costly and time consuming. When people see my garden the first question they ask me is what nutrients are you using to achieve these results. I usually smile and answer back with a better question. I notice that whoever asked me that question is most likely an amateur grower and does not really know the secretes on how to maximize yield and quality results when growing cannabis.

    The better question is, what environment did you run in your room that gets the specific nutrient formula to work most efficiently. I can tell you from past experiences that I've taken the same winning formula that has worked real well in a specific room to a new room with the same amount of lights and footprint and not have achieved the same results given that I'm using the same exact number of plants per light and strain/clone. If all the factors are the same, then why am I not achieving similar results? I later learned the importance of vapor pressure deficit and came to the conclusion that the reason that the formula did not work in some other rooms was because I had put my plants in a different environment than the environment of the winning room that turned my formula into a winning formula for that round. I can even go as far as saying that I've used the same formula on the winning room but did not achieve my results because it was summer or it was winter. This was before I grew in sealed grow room environments.

    I have now become more technical and have started to record my temps/humidity every day / every ten minutes and have looked at what all the winning rounds had in common. I'm not going to get into the details of that but I can tell you that the winning rounds had 1 basic thing in common. The average environment (VPD) was very similar. So what is the most important elements for your plants.

    #1 is Light
    #2 is Temp/humidity (VPD)
    #3 Co2
    #4 Nutrients (yes dead last) Why? Because if you don't have the 1st 3 dialed in properly then your nutes are simply going to waste.


    So what nutrients and or additives are essential for the best yields and quality?

    #1 Base nutrients (important)
    #2 bloom booster (important)
    #3 silica (important)
    #4 Chelates (Humic/Fulvic Acids) (important)
    #5 Carbohydrates (Sometimes optional)
    #6 Amino Acids / Enzymes (optional)
    #7 Vitamins (optional)
    #8 Friendly bacteria (optional)
    #9 Flushing agents (optional)

    If you really want to dial things in, you must run hydro and recirculate your nutrients so you can listen to the daily ph, ppm in and ppm out numbers properly. The goal for best yields and quality when referring to nutrients is knowing how to keep your EC balanced for the given environment that you are growing in. The more closely you can keep the EC on check, the less stress your plants have and can use most of their stored energy to produce beautiful large flowers. The more stress you put your plant through, the more energy it takes away from flower production to deal with the stressors.

    If you start with healthy clones or seedlings and flourish through the veg process, the easier the flowering cycle will be and flourish. If you mess up then you gotta add the additives that will help deal with your mistakes. Silica is at the top of my list because its essential in creating plants that thrive and grow vigorously. Chelates are important in getting your plants to take higher EC numbers in a given environment. They help balance your nutrient uptake and help your plants take in the nutes you give them with ease. Hence higher yields

    Studies have show that plants produce their own sugars but they can definitely benefit from added quality carbs with amino acids and enzymes if your plants are not 100% healthy and thriving then they may have not created enough sugar reserves to get the through until the end. Carbs help push your buds by providing energy, especially towards the end of the round and can also help feed the friendly bacteria. Enzymes are great in keeping your plants running clean. Especially if you run to waste. Enzymes help get rid off excess salts derived from a run to waste cycle that spikes your ec up after the week when you would flush. If your plants are flourishing and growing vigorously then you don't need much carbs and enzymes since the plant is producing enough on its own. When you recirculate and keep the ec at balance to the vpd of the environment, the nutes run clean, you dont have ec spikes and therefore you don't need an enzyme product and can get away with minimal carbs. The reason why I personally always use Carboload is because I do defoliate a bit and this takes away energy from the plant but I benefit by getting more light to the bottoms at a cost of adding extra carbs. When you recirculate and aerate your res, you are creating friendly bacteria this way which create enzymes for your plants. When you run to waste you don't get that perk. You gotta add friendly bacteria. Now one may argue and say that recirculating the nutes can also bring in deadly bacteria but with proper nutrient topping techniques and proper aeration you can avoid these issues. As far as vitamins you only need them when your plants get stressed. If they are healthy and vigorously growing, they are strong and don't need vitamins. As far as friendly bacteria, I naturally produce it by properly running a recirculation technique that does not need a flush. And as far as flushing agents, you only need them when you really get the ppm in and ppm out, out of balance. The only other thing I sometimes add is calcium and magnesium if using RO water. But the better thing to do is use your tap water and just remove the chlorine and chloramine out of the water. Your tap water then becomes your cal mag.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  2. I'll agree with most of what your stating. My veg feeds in coir dtw are 300-400 ppm (.8 ec) flower feeds at 400-500 ppm (1.0 ec).
    And also attest to differences in growers. I have a relative that grows also and uses my nutrient formula exactly, only difference is he uses 2 600 watt HPS for his 4x8 where I use a single Gavita 6-750 DE to light the same 4x8 space. I blow him away with yield and quality every time.
     
  3. I mostly agree, but, enzymes make the nutrients more efficient, meaning less EC can be used to the same effect, and since very little is needed...
     
  4. MW7945

    MW7945

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    TL;DR

    Still doing tea/enzyme days once a week
     
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  5. Judaz

    Judaz

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    I get it, enzymes do help with EC and act as chelates making nutrients more efficient but when you have friendly bacteria in your root zone then adding enzymes becomes redundant and an added cost. I create bacteria in my reservoirs by recirculating the water and letting them naturally grow and also making sure not to kill them. I reuse the water from my dehumidifier and AC to feed my plants as well. I use about 30% tap water that is filtered for chlorine and chloramine and 70% recycled water from my ac and dehu that is well aerated and has friendly bacteria. And I feed my bacteria with carboload. The plant and friendly bacteria in the root zone create a symbiotic relationship with each other. Where the bacteria creates your enzymes for the plant. That's why I don't use them. I'm a commercial grower and I'm looking to maximize weight and quality while minimizing costs. For me its an added expense that I don't want to acquire since enzymes are not cheap. . As long as your water temp is right and well aerated you will not get unfriendly bacteria. The most efficient hydroponic systems recirculate nutes and dont run to waste.

    What I do use to make my nutrients more efficient and are far more effective for getting plants to take higher EC so they can grow faster are chelates in the for of humic and fulvic acids. https://www.zamnesia.com/blog-humic-and-fulvic-acids-what-they-are-and-how-to-use-them-n1027 My favorite being Ancient Earth by advanced nutrients. I rather spend the money on that then on enzymes. I get way better results

    Benefits of Enzymes (Amino Acids)


    Amino acids as micronutrients

    At a minimum, plants require only light, water, air and some minerals to survive. They possess the cellular machinery to take those energy inputs and turn them into plant tissue. However, plants also draw some metals such as copper and zinc from the soil. Microorganisms in the soil, such as bacteria, provide trace amounts of amino acids to the plant as well. The microorganism source for amino acids is one reason why maintaining a healthy microscopic environment for your plants is absolutely critical to a successful grow.

    Most organic or soil-based methods for growing cannabis don’t require additional amino acids. If you’re growing hydroponically, however, consider feeding solutions that contain amino acids to supplement the lack of a thriving microorganism presence. The additional amino acids in the hydro mixtures simulate a soil environment.

    Amino acids as chelates

    Aside from building proteins, amino acids act as “carrier” molecules for other necessary nutrients. Zinc, iron, copper and other metallic micronutrients activate the enzymes in plants, and amino acids such as glutamic acid or citric acid bind to these metals. This binding activity is known as “chelation,” and amino acids become a “chelate.” When amino acids chelate to micronutrients, they make these nutrients more bioavailable, so the plant has an easier time making efficient use of the tiny amounts of those goodies in their soil or water.

    Amino acids as fertilizer correction

    Fertilizers, which we need to feed our cannabis plants, will strain plants over time. Nitrogen is necessary for plant growth, but as plants are artificially pushed to their growth limits, their cellular structures weaken. This can make plants more susceptible to physical damage, which can stress the plant or make it prone to infection.​
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
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  6. From my experience, humic acid doesn't play along well in rez's.
     
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  7. Yeah. My method is f & d. I tried humic last grow, along with micros= nasty, ugly roots. Fulvic could work. My main concern being does it turn the nutrient solution a dark color like fulvic does, and since I am using enzymes and aminos is it redundant?
     
  8. Judaz

    Judaz

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    Why not?
     
  9. GT21

    GT21 I like soup Supporter

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    Vpd does not mean shit to weeds. Co2 is at about 400ppm atmospheric(and rising). Youre right about nutes.... Biggest sales gimmick of all time is veg nutes
     
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  10. Junks up the rez and is a pita to clean up out of it.
     
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  11. Judaz

    Judaz

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    I clean out my reservoirs once a round. I keep it simple, I just keep the water temps right and well aerated. All that junk is grerat for the plants. Just think about a compost. Its all decaying junk
     
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  12. I don't run recirculating reservoirs any more. All DTW now. No worrying about pH monitoring, no top offs and a fresh balanced feeding every time.
     

  13. I only use nutes with a balanced veg profile.

    The myth is pk is supposed to be so high.

    Since I dropped the bloom bottle my yield is much higher. Almost 2 oz higher per 3 gallon pot of soil mix on average. I do taper the concentration down during ripening to avoid nitrogen toxicity.
     
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  14. Most of that is because the P is locked up and not readily available to the plants.
     
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  15. GT21

    GT21 I like soup Supporter

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    I was gonna say... You cant possibly run veg straight through... You would chop green plants that taste like hay hahaha
     
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  16. I just said I did and have posted many flowers to show results.

    Every strain and different pheno tastes and smells different like they are supposed to.

    Haven’t you watched the dyna grow video I keep posting every time someone says this. You won’t like the truth. But the president of the company shares his lab results of cannabis nutrient content through all stages and admits he made the bloom bottle due to popular demand rather than plant science.

    He recommends 3-1-2 all the way through with silica if in hydro.



    I didnt learn this from the interview but it sure backs up the facts.
     
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  17. Sure from overfeeding pk. Then the flush to correct the problems.

    As soon as I stopped using bloom stuff all the yellowing and burns and stuff stopped too. Ph down being potassium also was eliminated. And also uneeded for most water sources.
     
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  18. GT21

    GT21 I like soup Supporter

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    I have poured bloom boost in roses and it had a better smell and color soooo we cant really just relate it to pot. Npk is needed by all plants. So when you run high nitrogen through you end up with more chlorophyll..which masks your anthocyanins.. Which are linked to antioxidants....which makes drying and curing harder and harsher smoke. You dont eat green bananas
     
  19. PH down is either phosphoric or nitric acid in most instances, pH down usually potassium hydroxide. Never seen a pH down in a potassium formula as potassium is a base in itself.
     
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  20. Sorry pH up is potassium hydroxide.
     
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