The Quest For Trichomes (a Story Of Micro Cultivation)

[SMACKA]

What's up y'all - I've been posting in the Micro Grow forum, but wanted to bring this grow log out into the open, so more people can yell at me over what I'm doing wrong.

New grower here - building my way towards a two room perpetual micro setup.


How Micro is micro?

My clone and veg chamber is a PC Case (0.75 sq.ft) running an 85-Watt CFL (65k, 4200 Lumen, 350w equivalent) on a timer at 18/6.

My flower chamber is a spacious tent, typically used for clones. It's 1.5x2.5x3 ft for a total of just under 12 sq. ft (exact dimensions: 45x70x90cm, 18x30x36"), which is a significant upgrade from just the PC Case. She's got a 135watt Quantum Board inside her which fits nicely right at the top of the tent and allows for passive cooling. Rather than blow air around the inside of the tent, I have a small 4" fan keeping the place cool, and filtering through a small carbon filter at the same time.


Whatcha Growing?

The plan is to get a couple full cycles under my belt with cheap/beginner genetics, then pop a couple nicer beans... So if you want to see nicer buds grown in here, help me keep these moody fuckers alive!

Currently I've got a Crop Kings Purple Kush, and a Crop Kings White Widow girl vegging in the larger tent. Once they're healthy I'll be taking clones, firing up the PC Case, and flipping the tent to 12/12.


But I need help...

Grew some outdoor bud when I was a teenager, this is my first time getting involved indoors. I'm learning as I go but could use some feedback.

One of the drawbacks of the Micro forum is that it's a ghost town. Half the time I'll post updates and ask questions, then weeks will go by before someone sees it.

At all times, feel free to leave feedback, tell me what I'm doing wrong, debate others on related topics, and where possible teach us with examples of your past experience, rather than something you've read. I'm here to learn, others are here to learn, and others will be from the future using the search function to learn more about how to cultivate this beautiful plant.

Up next? Pics...

 

[SMACKA]

Things started off well and good...

Here's the Purple Kush

Here's the White Widow. So far so good, though now that I'm going back to these pics I can see the White Widow's already showing issues she's never recuperated from (purple stems, and veins)

 

[SMACKA]

A month later, the problems had begun. Here they are in their PC Case, at around a month old. The White Widow is on the right, the Purple Kush is on the left.

White Widow showing dirty spots, yellowing leaves, and red stalk, which persists to this day.

Purple Kush tips have started to show yellowing, which persists to this day.

 

[SMACKA]

Another month goes by.

At this point I'd posted to the Infirmary, and to other sites online because I wasn't getting much feedback in the Micro forum. Word came back that my pH was probably off, and that they were hungry.

Here they are getting bent over for the first time. Heavy bondage comes with the territory when growing in a PC Case.

Purple Kush is a hearty girl and kept pluggin' along, not losing nearly the amount of leaves as her White Widow sister.

Still... you can see the splotches creeping in, here

As you can see the White Widow's not doing well at all. She's shed most of her leaves and the splotches have continued to spread.

Upping the nutes seemed to work! Here they are a week later... Lookin' a lot better!

 

[SMACKA]

Which brings us to 2 weeks ago...

In their last month, these plants went completely yellow, and shed most of their leaves again.

• Canna Terra Plus Professional soil
• Canna Vega nutrients, mixed at 1.5mL/L
• pH in is 5.85
• pH out is 6.15
• Feeding 2L of water per feed per plant, run off is between 25–50%

Here's the Purple Kush - notice the yellowing tips, purple stems

Here's the White Widow - notice the purple stems, veins, leaves yellowing, purple tips

Both plants are lime green, not nearly as dark as when they were seedlings.

 

[SMACKA]

A week or so ago, I bought a new pH pen and calibration liquid. pH levels seem seem to be accurate now, and any salt build up should be being addressed as I'm watering a lot more per feed now.

My Canna Vega nutes are old, but not expired, smell fine, and in general seem to be good.

Come along and enjoy the ride, remember what it's like to be a clueless noob who's passionate about learning.

Any feedback is appreciated... Subscribe to the thread and join me on...

The Quest For Trichomes​

 

[Thejoeybrown]

Didnt you say you were in soil? Those ph numbers look like hydro numbers. I don't think you want to go below 6.5 in soil.
As you can see according to this chart at those numbers you would be getting very little if any cal mag. And those do look like cal mag issues imo. Hopefully someone else will chime in as I'm in Coco not soil.

 

[SMACKA]

Didnt you say you were in soil? Those ph numbers look like hydro numbers. I don't think you want to go below 6.5 in soil.
As you can see according to this chart at those numbers you would be getting very little if any cal mag. And those do look like cal mag issues imo. Hopefully someone else will chime in as I'm in Coco not soil.

Appreciate you weighing in - I've wondered about whether I should increase pH towards 6.5 on a bunch of occasions.

I originally thought I was in a mainly- coir/inert medium, but @Mr Bee corrected me, here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...tory-of-micro-cultivation.88654/#post-1912151 and sure enough when I check the bag, it says mainly peat moss.

The nute bottle says 5.8–6.2 for recommended pH, and the bag said the soil is pH'd with a buffer to around 5.8–6.3

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Thejoeybrown]

Appreciate you weighing in - I've wondered about whether I should increase pH towards 6.5 on a bunch of occasions.

I originally thought I was in a mainly- coir/inert medium, but @Mr Bee corrected me, here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...tory-of-micro-cultivation.88654/#post-1912151 and sure enough when I check the bag, it says mainly peat moss.

The nute bottle says 5.8–6.2 for recommended pH, and the bag said the soil is pH'd with a buffer to around 5.8–6.3

Any help is appreciated.

Ok got ya. Ya that's why I asked if soil and also hoped others would chime in. What is the brand? Can you put a pic of the label or something? We can figure this thing out and salvage you a harvest

 

[Thejoeybrown]

The lower leaves that are a pale yellow suggest N issue and the upper leaves with rust spots suggest Ca. N is a mobile nutrient and Ca is an immobile nutrient. Mobile nutrient can show in lower growth while immobile will be in the new growth.

There is obviously more than one thing going on but I'm confident it can all lead back to one thing causing a chain reaction. PH is usually a good way of bringing lockouts of nutrients which will show as a deficiency. Even if you are feeding it a certain nutrient it might not be recieving it.

It's hard to say and I'm trying to discern it with you. It will help me grow as a grower. Lol

 

[SMACKA]

What is the brand? Can you put a pic of the label or something?

"Ask and ye shall receive..."

Here's the medium:

Here are the nutes:

 

[SMACKA]

The lower leaves that are a pale yellow suggest N issue and the upper leaves with rust spots suggest Ca. N is a mobile nutrient and Ca is an immobile nutrient. Mobile nutrient can show in lower growth while immobile will be in the new growth.

There is obviously more than one thing going on but I'm confident it can all lead back to one thing causing a chain reaction. PH is usually a good way of bringing lockouts of nutrients which will show as a deficiency. Even if you are feeding it a certain nutrient it might not be recieving it.

It's hard to say and I'm trying to discern it with you. It will help me grow as a grower. Lol

Can totally empathize with it being hard to discern. I feel like I've tried everything – it's been a stressful 4 months, but I'm confident that if I can get through this, the worst will be behind me.

Regarding pH

pH has certainly been an issue, though I honestly don't know what parts. Originally I'd been using an old pH pen that had dried out a few times. It was suspect from the beginning of this grow but was calibrating so I kept it.

Eventually I got some weird fungal growth in the pH calibration solution, so I headed to the grow shop to grab some new calibration solutions, and some pH down since I'd been using lemon juice for a while. While I was there, I bought one of those cheapo pH pens to see if mine was still accurate.

Turns out my old pen couldn't even calibrate in the new calibration liquid so I scrapped it and have been using the new pH pen, with calibration liquids for the last two or three weeks.

 

[Thejoeybrown]

Do you happen to know your EC/ppm going in and runoff?

 

[SMACKA]

Do you happen to know your EC/ppm going in and runoff?

Last time I checked was 3 or 4 weeks ago and they were high – upwards of 1,200 ppm. With that said, this was using my old pH pen, so I don't know how trustworthy those numbers are.

At that point, thinking it might be nute burn and/or salt builds ups (ie. hadn't been watering enough per feed), I started giving them 2L of plan water for a couple feeds, then continued at a lower dose of nutes: 1.5mL/L, down from 4mL/L before.

I still don't know if the numbers were accurate/there was a build up as I tend water plants in generally pretty hard with plenty of run off after years of my mom yelling at me to give her hanging baskets more water, but I digress.

I have some TDS calibration liquid, so I'll give it a shot with my old pH pen (new one doesn't read EC/TDS) and get back to you in a week or so on that.

 

[SMACKA]

1) Is it possible the nutrients are too low, and that dropping 4mL/L to 1.5mL/L drop was too much, and since the pH is fine they're showing various nute deficiencies?

If not...

2) @Mr Bee has grown in Canna Terra Pro+ before and mentioned pH'ing to between 6.5–7.0, which is tempting to follow, even though everyone else is saying to go lower. Wondering if "pH to 6" has been an incorrect mantra, and that the pH issues we're seeing are because pH is 0.5 too low.

---

The hunch of nutrient deficiency came from the fact the bag recommends 5.8–6.2 pH and that's where I've been feeding for 10 days with no noticeable change.

The hunch of pH being too low came from the fact that I've dialed nutes back, and there's still a bunch of funky blotches, purpling, lime green leaves, and skinny leaves.

 

[Mr Bee]

1) Is it possible the nutrients are too low, and that dropping 4mL/L to 1.5mL/L drop was too much, and since the pH is fine they're showing various nute deficiencies?

If not...

2) @Mr Bee has grown in Canna Terra Pro+ before and mentioned pH'ing to between 6.5–7.0, which is tempting to follow, even though everyone else is saying to go lower. Wondering if "pH to 6" has been an incorrect mantra, and that the pH issues we're seeing are because pH is 0.5 too low.

---

The hunch of nutrient deficiency came from the fact the bag recommends 5.8–6.2 pH and that's where I've been feeding for 10 days with no noticeable change.

The hunch of pH being too low came from the fact that I've dialed nutes back, and there's still a bunch of funky blotches, purpling, lime green leaves, and skinny leaves.

Ph of 6 is for coco.between 5.8 & 6 is where I ph my coco but in soil 6.5.i grew in soil for 12 years non stop.im sure your plants would still grow with a ph o 6 but it's not what I would do that's all I'm saying.its up to you what you do of course

 

[SMACKA]

@Dutch Jon asked, "There so many factors to narrow down i.e. lighting, too wet, too dry, root development, frequency of watering/feeding yada yada"

• lighting: 135w Quantum board LED panel. There's a chance it's too much light but no chance it's too low.
• too wet, too dry: Definitely not too wet. I drown my first plants in the PC and learned my lesson. This time I waited until the plants wilted before watering to get the number of days between watering. Once I was more comfortable, I'm just checking the pots by weight now. Could be too dry, I suppose... I hadn't given it much thought.
• root development: Roots seem to be doing well, though it's possible the 2 gallon smart pots are too small at this point and are root bound.
• frequency of watering/feeding: These days I'm watering every 3–4 days

Trying to give everyone as much information as they could possibly need on this, because I'm stumped. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Dutch Jon]

• Essentially you do have close to 6 .3 - 6.5 pH. Think about it, if it is 5.8 pH going in and coming out is 6.1 the actual pH of the mmedeium is above 6.1 I'd venture to say more than 3 points higher something like 6.4 So 1200 ppm run off and your only adding 1.5 ml/L? Do you know the ppm going in?

They use to say when in doubt flush it out. That way you coveted the bases so to speak.
Let's see a good way to explain it. If your car doesn't start the guy at the auto service center will check your battery first, check the amps, and what not. it's a process of elimination, it goes something like, if it's not the battery then it's the starter if it's not the starter it's the ignition you see? I would mind moving on to soil density and aeration or humidity air exchange and us help you narrow this down but we haven't eliminated pH or lock out posiblitys, or maybe we have, I apologize for not mentioning for you to check your ppm but it's really looking like there's some lockout going on that's why we check the pH going in and going out, cuz the higher runoff pH is indicating lockout and salts.

 

[SMACKA]

Essentially you do have close to 6 .3 - 6.5 pH. Think about it, if it is 5.8 pH going in and coming out is 6.1 the actual pH of the mmedeium is above 6.1 I'd venture to say more than 3 points higher something like 6.4

Makes total sense.

So 1200 ppm run off and your only adding 1.5 ml/L? Do you know the ppm going in?

I made this confusing, my apologies.

Shouldn't have given you a number it at all; it's been too long. I mentioned it was 3-4 weeks ago, and, I should've just said "I'll check next time."

Still, I've kept notes along the way, so for informational sake, here's the last 8 weeks or so:

• May 18 - fed 4mL/L (ph @ 6.1, nutes at 500ppm), runoff was ph 6.1, but 1200 ppm. That scared me so I mixed another litre of 500ppm nutes, and gave each another 2 cups. Run off dropped to 1000 ppm, so I blasted another 2 cups through and it was still at 1000 ppm
• Jun 2 - fed 2Cups each @ 4ml/L (plants are still in 1.5L pots) <-- Looking back, this is certainly too high
  
• Jun 17 - watered 6 Cups each plant <-- This was my attempt at 'flushing' but probably not enough water, looking back
• Jun 25 - watered another 6 Cups each plant (pH 5.95)
  (probably missing some water here but
• Jul 2 - fed 1.5 ml/L
• Jul 17 - 2L each at 1.5ml/L (ph in 5.8 / out 6.1)
• Jul 20 - 2L each @ 1.5mL/L (ph in 5.7-5.8 / ph out: pk 6, ww 6.1)
• Jul 24 - 2L each @ 1.5mL/L (ph in 5.85 / ph out 6.15)

I've read this soil has a pH 6 buffering agent. No idea if that lasts the whole grow, whether that's still at play or any details, but thought I'd mention it.

They use to say when in doubt flush it out. That way you coveted the bases so to speak.

I would mind moving on to soil density and aeration or humidity air exchange and us help you narrow this down but we haven't eliminated pH or lock out posiblitys, or maybe we have, I apologize for not mentioning for you to check your ppm but it's really looking like there's some lockout going on that's why we check the pH going in and going out, cuz the higher runoff pH is indicating lockout and salts.

Was hoping I wouldn't have to, but at this point I agree we need a better baseline. They need something to drink today so I'll run a few gallons through each, then re-feed at 1.5mL/L, and report back with pH/ppm numbers.

 

[SMACKA]

Alright so it took about an hour and half to flush the fuckers, but here are the stats.

Pots are 2 gallons (7.5 L) so flushing at 3x pot size demands 6 gallons (22.5 L) of water per pot.

I was mixing 4 L at a time, so pH wasn't super consistent but I kept it between 5.8–5.9

STAGE 1: BEFORE

Purple Kush:

• Plain water
• pH 5.85 (IN) / out 6.15 (OUT)
• ppm in 165 (IN) / out 390 (OUT)

White Widow:

• Plain water
• ph 5.85 (IN) / out 5.93 (OUT)
• ppm 165 (IN) / out 510 (OUT)

STAGE 2: AFTER 20 L Flush (Water)

Purple Kush:

• pH 6.05 (OUT)
• ppm 220 (OUT)

White Widow:

• pH 6.05 (OUT)
• ppm 220 (OUT)

STAGE 1: FINAL 4L

At this point I still had 2.5 L needed to hit the "3x pot size" rule, but run off was clear on both plants so I mixed nutes mixed to 1.5mL/L (380 ppm) and gave them another 4 L each.

Purple Kush:

• pH 6.05 (OUT)
• ppm 380 (IN) * didn't get out

White Widow:

• pH 6.05 (OUT)
• ppm 380 (IN), 230 (OUT)