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Trichome Production By Different Lights

Discussion in 'General Indoor Growing' started by fortphoenix, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Is there a difference in quality/trichome production from 600w hps, 630w cmh or a 1000w DE gavita? I know theres evidence to show cmh gives more thc/terpenes but it is possible for a 600w hps or 630w cmh produce the same thick trichome production as a gavita, like pictured below?[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. LEC/CMH will make better looking buds.. but nothing can stack like a 1000 HPS
     
    Cannibal Joe likes this.
  3. DGP

    DGP

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    Not an expert here but I have seen some evedence that UV stimulates some trichome production as a way the plant protects itself from too much sunlight but then there is some evidence that some LEDs like quality COB systems increase trichomes. One thing that LEDs and CMH have in common is a very high CRI in the range of 90 or more out of 100. When you see high quality COBs or CMH the first thing that stands out is the white color like midday sunlight.

    One thing I do know from studying phytochemicals is terpenes are all about defense against bugs, mold, mildew and animals that want to eat the plant. since plants cant run away they use chemical warfare in the form of monoterpenes, diterpenes...etc. So, one big factor is genetics, then stress. Some people stress the plants to increase terpenes but IDK if the light has a big impact or if there is any conclusive data. I recently completed a couple of flower cycles with COB 90 CRI lights and was delighted with the results but what is really needed is several side by side runs with differentm lights with all other conditions identical.

    Dee
     
  4. DGP

    DGP

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    My two recent runs were with 750 watts LED COBs and they did much better than my 1KHPS. Flower stacking was so incredible I had a hard time figuring out when to chop. The flowers even stacked up the leaf stems and I have never seen that.

    Also, these werent cheap LEDs like Vipaspectra but 90 CRI COBs that are running a true 65w/sq ft. @ 3500 K not blurple or pink but true 3500k.

    Dee
     
  5. i meant stacking as in total yield.
     
    CaliRooted likes this.
  6. DGP

    DGP

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    Was about 10 percent increase with 25 percent less power cost.

    I want to go through more cycles and try to see the exact difference but each time I get better skill wise as a grower so without side by side runs it is hard to say.

    Dee
     
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  7. i just dont think LEDs are quite there yet. they are coming along though. how was the bud structure. was it airy? the running joke in the industry is "what do you use to supplement an HPS?... another HPS!" it will be interesting to see how the tech comes along. i dont think it can penetrate the canopy efficiently
     
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  8. sorry the joke is "what do you use to supplement a 1k hps.... another thousand watt hps
     
  9. I recently saw comparison buds in 600 hps and 630 cmh and the buds looks similar, the 630 looked a bit more colorful and shiny (not necessarily more frosty if that makes sense) and smelled a little better but nothing major.... so if thats the case, then a 600w hps makes/produces the same trichome development as a gavita? and the trichome development in the pictures i posted is possible with a 600w hps or 630 cmh? I was thinking bud that looks like thats only possible with 1k DE but it could be as easily done with a 630 cmh in the same environment?
     
  10. i would say its 70% genetics and 30% grower skill(which includes how he or she sets up the environment)
    Gavitas are DE hps. hortilux eye are SE HPS. cmh are used for supplemental lighting in warehouse spaces.although they can be used for both veg and flower. personally if u asked me to grow a crop to try and win the cannabis cup( and ignore everything else like weight etc... i would probably use a LEC/CMH.
     
    DemonTrich likes this.
  11. i would almost says its closer to 80% genetic. but elite cuts are highly coveted. so if u had to ask me i would buy beans from ur favorite breeder/whoever you think has the dankest and go from there and try to find that unicorn !
     
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  12. DGP

    DGP

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    I just did the unicorn hunt. Sprouted some seeds and saw the unicorn, the one plant that produces 2-3X more than her sisters. Clones I took from her ultimately failed so I had to try twice more to find her. Finally did and cloned her successfully. The strain is hard to clone. Now I have 8 of her in full flower, 8 more in veg and two moms set aside. Can't wait to see the yields this time (2 weeks into flower now).

    Dee
     
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  13. nice!
     
  14. right im aware of that, so I guess my question was assuming its the same grower, environment, watts/sqf, genetics, etc can a 600w hps produce the same trichomes/quality as a gavita since one is a SE and ones a DE
     
  15. yes
     
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  16. DGP

    DGP

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    Just as dense as before. The LEDs I use aren't the F'ing blurple or pink light ones from China. These are color correct light (CRI = 90) lights that I built from reliable parts/sources. Typical commercial LEDs you find on Ebay and Amazon are CRI =36 and HPS are typically ~CRI = 39. My yields were up and the quality was about the same density wise. Had better oil production though (compared production of 120 micron sift per ounce of material).
    NUG2_3.jpg Scale.jpg
     
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  17. DGP

    DGP

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    Is a photon from an LED physically different than a photon from HPS or CMH etc?.....
    ___________________________________________________
    The light penetration issue in cannabis culture has always perplexed me. People stating that the penetration of this light source/type or the other is better or worse. No offense to anyone but I see it as a myth. A photon is a photon and it makes no real difference how you create it but the physics are the same whether it is produced by HPS, CFL or LED the plant doesn't care. It cares about frequency and intensity but all that being the same a photon from a given point at a given angle is still a photon. It can only penetrate by passing by obstructions, ultimately being blocked at some point along it's way by leaves and stems or whatever is in it's path.

    However, if a fixture such as a single bulb HPS has sort of a single point of origin so the angle of the light is essentially coming from one common location, then its penetration into any point in the canopy is limited by it's angle and how many things get in the way and block the streams of photons (again, things like other leaves and branches). So, given an LED COB system where in the same grow space you have 12 COBs (for example) and therefore 12 point sources instead of one then obviously your penetration into the canopy is going to be better because of the diversity of the angles of light entering the canopy. Lets say you have discrete LEDs and many more of them, well that would be even better cause you might have hundreds or even thousands of diverse point sources of light (like the Spyder fixtures). So, LEDs or any light source has no physical advantage in light penetration but the configuration of the sources does just due to geometry. This is why some people use light movers! The sun moves all day long so the reason I think nature designed cannabis to grow like a Christmas tree in shape is it takes advantage of the constantly moving angle of the sun. We prune and train out plants to avoid the natural shape indoors to solve the problem of a fixed light source which is unnatural :).

    Anyway, most of my LED opinions are based on what I learned over the years working in the LED field. Some of my assumptions and observations could be wrong but I am pretty sure the penetration thing is a myth used by people selling lights to convince you that you need to keep buying the next great thing. I say you build a great LED system and ignore the sales guys that just want to keep selling you newer stuff. I heard yesterday at my local hydro shop the guy raving about the next big change in CMH technology that is a "must have" so it continues on (same song 50th verse). However, If I had to choose lighting right now I would be buying a good CMH, COB LED or Quantum board arrangement. I think CMH is still a great light and it is more color correct than most HPS lights but I still think LED is the best given a properly thought out fixture. However, now that I have run LED COBs for a flower cycle and a couple veg cycles I really like what I am seeing as well as the reduced AC and power bill in general. Most of my enthusiasm for LEDs are based on experience in the lab and published specs but in the grow I am seeing things I never saw with HPS lighting. Also the color correctness of the current LEDs is awesome. No more Blurple color or red shifted HPS, but a CRI of 95 and light that looks like a Summer day. Look up the CRI ratings for various light sources such as HID, CFL or whatever and you will see pretty low numbers on most lights except quality LEDs and CMH sources.

    Many people think LEDs are not ready for prime time and I think this opinion exists because of all the shitty, falsely specified, blurple lights out there that so many people have tried and not based on the performance of a quality system that is either DIY or built by real professionals (like RapidLED's Vero fixtures or Timber, Fluence and so on). The reason is the commercial ones that have been properly engineered and have more honest specs cost a lot more so often people buy the ones on Amazon or Ebay that are for the most part crap. In the case of cost that is where DIY or kit builds shine because they are often 1/2 the cost or lower.
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    Dee
     
  18. some of what you are saying i agree with. But you are forgetting spectrum. plants grow differently under different spectrums. I said i don't think LEDS are quite there yet, meaning with technological advances i think they can and will be. what you said about cost is definitely true. it a high cost of entry. i worked as an assistant manager at a hydro shop and ran a warehouse and delivery service so i have experience in every facet of the industry. only thing i don't know and wont do on my own is set up the electrical work. i leave that to the professionals as i don't want to burn down the building. we sold every time of light and every type of set up... i have had hour long debates with sales reps, customers an coworkers. nothing could produce weight like a 1k hps. hortilux was the best back then, but things are changing now. Numerous DE hps(with mixed in LEC/CMH ) like a 70/30 splits in a stationary high point area is the best way to do it in a warehouse. which is the only way to go as residential electricity is too much money. this is strictly indoor though. i would love a greenhouse with supplemental lighting. that is the future for most. a couple niche indoor brands will survive and flourish though. as far as a closet grow LED would be a great choice. it doesn't run as hot and will cost less to run. but for anything serious LED is not the way quite yet. hopefully it will in the future. would be interesting to see how it turns out.
     
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  19. Dan789

    Dan789

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    81E49FD1-A017-48AB-8B06-742165A3D7AB.jpeg Really impressive to hold a bud that big, where it overhangs you hand, my recent Rapid led cob acquisition gave me that, this last run.
     
  20. how many watts was the LED Pulling