Cannabis Origin/DNA. Cali Elite Strains: Tahoe, Larry, SFV and breeding

[Luk E Bag]

Growing up in California I believe that og's have the specific terpenoids and cannabinoids to blow away any genetics I've ever seen in Amsterdam. Obviously cannabis breeding has to come from a limited amount of feral varieties that have high THC content; Mainly African/asian equatorial sativas, and India/Paki/Nepali/Afghani kush/indica strains that have been brought out in the past 50 years. Prior to that cannabis was used for 1000's of years but the strains were indigenous to specific regions and crossbreeding could not have occurred in the scale it has reached in today's horticulture. Since there has been little to no DNA sequencing of cannabis that I am aware of, I try to breed back to parental stock or find vastly different strains that display similar/identical growth patterns and make crosses that increase resin production, flavor and potency in the progeny. I consider my growing skills to be limited in comparison to many master growers elaborate commercial set-ups but I feel that we are close to reaching the pinnacle of cannabis potency by following these two methods: Backcrossing to create stable hybrids for breeding by finding heirloom strains that share a common ancestor; strains that have been dialed in to reach their maximum potential in different environments. Having the ability to recognize that two completely different strains may have been grown 1000's of miles apart and share a common ancestor is crucial to isolating and increasing the production of specific cannabinoids found in each strain and keeping genetic integrity intact. I want to know why I like what I like, where it came from, how to improve upon it and how to assure that specific genetics stay intact for future generations. As our science advances hopefully we'll truly learn the potential of cannabis usage; both positive and negative. Pardon my writing while drinking and possibly failing attempt to sound smart. I welcome all to contribute their knowledge, strains they like, why certain crosses should be made and whether or not they believe I'm on the right track or full of BS.
What I truly seek are people who have knowledge and pictures of some of the seeds I have recently acquired. I have been on an og kick since around 1999. I first saw an SFV in 1994/1995 and I got some of the first cuts of "SFV OG" and "Bubba" in 1999 from Granada Hills and Simi Valley. They were the best and nothing new exceeds them.
I've grown pretty much every og s1 or hybrid to hit the So Cal market. Tahoe, Larry, SFV, Skywalker, Poison, XXX, Ghost, Faceoff, Abusive, Old School, $100, King Louie, Mars, Jupiter, Earth, Holy Grail, Madman, Obama, Fire, and various crosses of the above. I also had the original bubba which blew away the pre-98, katsu, platinum, North Hollywood, twisted sister, bomb threat etc.
I've made a few crosses with clones that looked almost identical in structure but had very dissimilar flavor and high. SFV x King Louie, $100 OG (DRC) x Tahoe, Madman x Obama. I can make these crosses again but they will always be feminized and will therefore never reach their full potential. These are all so amazingly dank and I hold on to my 20-30 seeds of these crosses as part of my project. The few dispensaries that have popped seed and kept cuts have lame names for them "key lime og, hardcore og, wheelchair og, brain freeze og" etc etc.
So..I bought a bunch of seeds to play with recently: Sin City Seeds, Gage Green Genetics, Rare Dankness, Bodhi, DNA/Reserva Pravada. The list goes on. I'll post a list of what I have and if you have pheno pix before flip to 12/12 and bud pix after 50 days or so you could really help me to plan what I will cross with...and possibly get some free testers and a cannabis cup winning quality strain to play with if you pm me. For now. Sin City Seeds: Rappers Delight, Sourflame og, Galactic Jack, Sinfully Sour, True Power OG, Nightmare OG, Nightfire OG, Sins OG, Blue Power, Powernap, Petroleum Nightmare. I see a lot of progressive options cuts in there to BX to. I'm also thinking the Dr Cletus Sour Kush or Lemon Larry might go well with Sinfully Sour.
The list goes on Rare Dankness: Scotts Og, Lee Roy, Rugburn, Khyber Kush, 4 Corners and Vale Vale.
Humboldt Seeds: Lost Coast OG, Desert Diesel, Amherst Sour Diesel, Bubba Kush, Trainwreck and Green Crack. Hazeman: Blue Bubba. Cali Connect: Chem 4 og, Boss Hogg, Chem Valley Kush, Buddha Tahoe. Kens Estes: Bay 11, Bay Dream, Kens Kush. Gage Green Genetics GGG: 5 K puff, Good Ideas. Also weird freebies sourstar 5 x goji og and goji#5 x polardawg chem 3. If you have pix of any of these in veg and flower or know anything about cannabis botany that night help me. Please post pix. I've been around a while. I know the "ocean grown" story is bs. I recall the strain spoke of in that urban legend and the strain was called "magooey" back in 1995..it ruled Huntington and South County. The same grower (Larry) got an og around 2002 and that Ocean Grown story was made up sometime after. I know that SFV OG was the original followed shortly by tahoe but obviously they have some similar parents somewhere in their lineage and its not chemdawg; though I love skunk va, chem d and chem 4. Put your two cents..and hopefully pix in!

 

[TheCoolestMan]

I have read nearly all the thread about Chemdawg, OG and Diesel on internet, and IMO there's noway no know the true lineage. There's so many stories and different versions, thats its impossible to even try searching for the true story. As matter of fact, I think the truth is drawn in the smoked brains of the stoners who brought those gens. Not even them knows tha fuck lol... I haven't seen true OG in regular seed form yet, I hope archive genetics bring me some true OG.

 

[zeke]

Anyone that's been around as long as you surely has seen and smelled the similarities. Related genes have related terpene profiles: chem whatever, Larry, sour diesel, headband. At some point they came from skunk . At least that's what my nose says. Some nasty afghani skunk. The retarded "breeder" that found them asbagseed was probably lied to by the "breeder" that sold it to him. He couldn't just say yeah it's skunk from 89 because then all of his enigmatic charm and value would dissipate. Wouldn't you want to be the only guy on the lot with the dawg?

As far as Tahoe og goes it tastes identical to afgooey and banana kush. All three equally uninteresting to my tastes. Not bad just not exciting. "No mang this here be da og alien fire white cookie, it off da chain". I prefer my genetics to worked by folks with IQs above 70.

Due to the ease of selfing and femming these clowns have to fabricate a new silly name to throw the "dogs" off the trail. Otherwise all their " homies" would just self the same cut. Shameless really. Whatever happened to provenance? Just pm Shanti at MNS. One of the few companies with provenance. He has parentals to make anything. Describe your ideal terpene profile and stature and he will point you in the right direction. When you find it just don't be a douche and rename it. Give him props, credit where credit is due. Good growers get all the re$pect they can handle.

 

[Kushwick]

I would have to say none of those breeders for stability as you are getting f1s of something crossed to a clone that's it. No real work after that. You want stability find a so called breeder that took the time to work the gear and bring it past the the 3rd or 4th filial gen

 

[Luk E Bag]

Anyone that's been around as long as you surely has seen and smelled the similarities. Related genes have related terpene profiles: chem whatever, Larry, sour diesel, headband. At some point they came from skunk . At least that's what my nose says. Some nasty afghani skunk. The retarded "breeder" that found them asbagseed was probably lied to by the "breeder" that sold it to him. He couldn't just say yeah it's skunk from 89 because then all of his enigmatic charm and value would dissipate. Wouldn't you want to be the only guy on the lot with the dawg?

As far as Tahoe og goes it tastes identical to afgooey and banana kush. All three equally uninteresting to my tastes. Not bad just not exciting. "No mang this here be da og alien fire white cookie, it off da chain". I prefer my genetics to worked by folks with IQs above 70.

Due to the ease of selfing and femming these clowns have to fabricate a new silly name to throw the "dogs" off the trail. Otherwise all their " homies" would just self the same cut. Shameless really. Whatever happened to provenance? Just pm Shanti at MNS. One of the few companies with provenance. He has parentals to make anything. Describe your ideal terpene profile and stature and he will point you in the right direction. When you find it just don't be a douche and rename it. Give him props, credit where credit is due. Good growers get all the re$pect they can handle.

I remember the old school rks from the early 90's and back then it was great but as far as the og's having affie in them that seems to be something I see in cali connect crosses (Just because of Swerve's stud which is a sfv x afghani; CC seeds are the bomb I assure you though) The affie traits are not present in the best og clones. Our best cuts are sativa's though most dispensaries and breeders refer to them as Indica just because they have the most knockout potency of any strain on Earth. I'm gonna wager that you're not from California and haven't had the clone only og's that dominate our medical scene here and in Colorado. Afghooey has little to no similarities to the progressive options tahoe I grow and there are a few banana kush's with Elite's cut being by far the most potent; though not similar to Tahoe or as potent. I believe Elite BK was a sfv x something unnamed from Sagarmatha.
The Cali elite og's are far more potent than anything featured in Hightimes or sold in Amsterdam coffee shops. The most potent flowers you'll find in Amsterdam are from DNA/Reserva Pravada and they are 3rd rate remakes of our best Cali strains. If you've seen the different og's and chems they are distinctly different. Skunk Va chem 91 is indica dominant and has that skunk you speak of. The Chem D is about as sativa as they come and smells like gyms socks or rotting flesh. Chem 4 is in between. There are too many different og cuts for me to even address it but some cuts called og simply aren't. Like the goji. It isn't an og its an affie. Bodhi has some good gear coming from his snow lotus, applachia and goji but I don't find them to have the high to match the bag appeal.
I remember smoking Shantibaba's white widow in the late 90's and it being an Amsterdam favorite but it doesn't have that headrush potency. I actually chose one of my seed packs (5k puff) because of its being rumored to have the Aloha White Widow crossed to a great og so I expect great bag appeal. Granted I am biased and only get high from a few specific strains. Respect to Shanti, Neville, etc etc and all the original breeders out there but I think the scene is greatly hindered by High Times. I went to HTCC 2012 in Los Angeles with a friend from weedmaps and brought a couple oz's of bud that blew away the kosher kush and yoda og winners by a mile. I was told I couldn't enter it. My conversation with Nico and Danny of High Times was them basically telling me my genetics were ineligible because they weren't from a breeder who supports them. The High Times Strongest strain of 2012 happened to be Moonshines GTH#1. Rare Dankness has some great herb but High Times chose it because it has Neville's genetics in it. Ask anyone from RD and they'll tell you the GTH is nowhere close to their Scott's, Rugburn, Rectangle/Four Corners, Doc's or Lee Roy. I sought out the 25% GTH strain grown by kushman and picked it up at Buds and Roses in La. It seriously gave me a two minute buzz. This year I entered 2 strains at the HTCC LA held in San Bernadino. My strains tested over 28%thc and had the bag appeal and potency to make one laugh at the winners. My partners adubb tested at 34% as per sc labs but Buds and Rose mid grade around 18-19% thc won the glory. Check SC labs records for adubb, bty og and madman og if you're skeptical. I'd suggest you try some of the Sin City line-up..everything they have is consistent with no hermie tendencies. Or if you've mastered figuring out ideal ppms and using cal mag, fulvic acids etc try something from Archive or Rare Dankness. I promise you'll be happy you did. I just put this post up because I want to see pix of any of these strains so I can cross breed and create a variety of f4 seeds while hopefully retaining f1 potency. I'd like to start a seed company a few years down the road.
Most of all. I appreciate your input. I give credit to every breeder when I know who my cuts come from, but for now..these few seed companies above along with PNC, Progressive Options, Cloneville and La Wonderland (DR Cletus) take the credit for anything amazing I grow. I'll attach the file pic for PO's tahoe. It's a winner above anything in High Times and some local elite cuts get to about 3-4% higher thc/thcv. This pic was at 25% thc if I recall correctly. I think lordjin grew this one...not sure

 

[Luk E Bag]

I would have to say none of those breeders for stability as you are getting f1s of something crossed to a clone that's it. No real work after that. You want stability find a so called breeder that took the time to work the gear and bring it past the the 3rd or 4th filial gen

Thats what I'm working on. I know the potency will be found in the f1's but if I can recross over the next year or two to get some f4's, and do it right using compatible genetics, I can then have a few bonafide strains to breed with that have the genetics I consider to be the most potent in the world.

 

[zeke]

Pretty lame seed collection. Reminds me of some shit that I might find under my genetics fridge. I'd delete that pic of that weak pile before you lose street cred. I'm thinking you got a job cleaning up the expo center after the cup and found this shit on the ground. Just joking. Looks like we have similar tastes. I picked up a lot of the same stuff at the Seattle cup this year. I don't give two shits who pays enough to "win". I went two days just to talk to breeders and buy their seed. Picked up 17 or 18 packs, total custy. The only bad thing was the fake Reeferman guys got me for $200. Reef himself told me they were fakes. Other than that I saved lots of loot and got everything I wanted. Now I'll dispel all of the marketing hype by fighting all this gear to the death. Blood sport style.

 

[Canappa]

You cant go wrong with Sin City gear, Dont miss out on that Tangerine Power, Its my favorite and my "mint" pheno Sinmint Cookie are two must have keepers...

 

[thump easy]

well i grew hear too also had a shop and involded in a few around los angles.. i gota say i have seen a few strain that never showed up or died out that were ogees.. i wish the list was still around of all the genetics i have incounterd but a few of the ogees are missing not nessarly from breeders but locals around sfv, sgv, van guys, long beach, southgate Hollywood, just dont know? the breeders got ahold of a few but thier still some out thier that never made it..

 

[zeke]

I'm not into using thc% as marketing tools. There are way to many bloated numbers floating around out there. It's really kind of funny. Some of the best pot I've smoked ever has been under 10%. Obviously there is something else going on psychoactively speaking. Anyone with any chemistry background knows how varied ms/gc results can be. Simple changes in sample preparation can result in huge percentage changes. Before the testing company I use got the hang of there gear shit was testing in the upper twenties. Once they had the procedure down most strains hit around 10 to 12%, some were 14% and the highest was 18%. That's down from mostly in the mid to high twenties. Same cut, room and harvest. Just more efficient results. Sometimes ten runs are used to compile an average. I prefer lots of tests for a statistical analysis. The last thing I want to do is get my science skewed by some lab that distorts their numbers just to get customers. Ethics being what they are in this business, lots of less discerning customers would prefer a testing facility based on faulty data. That's not too scientific. What do I know, all the cuts in Seattle,Portland and Eugene are fakes I'm learning. All hail Californian overlords. Suck suck gag....

 

[MtGrownCanna]

Right on Zeke....telling it how it is. When I had my MMC, a chemist came to sell us a portable liquid chromo testing kit. We aloud him to set up shop for a day and other MMCs could come and test their strains for half price. Buds that tested 23% up in Denver were testing at 7% in his machine.....obviously he pissed off many an MMC owner. We had a long talk about all the testing he's done in Cali where he lives and he said only once or twice did strains test over 20%....most testing in at 10% - 17%. I had some of the strains I grew tested. Bluegum from G13 seeds was 14%, Blue Dream was 12%, and Sour Cream was a 11%. Sour Cream was the patient favorite at the time......one of the lowest % of thc... THC is over rated. And testing labs cannot be trusted.

Like you said, no one wants to hear how little thc is in their bud, but if you put down 23%, 24%, you will have ego maniac customers for life..

 

[zeke]

MtGrownCanna, you and I obviously got our low potency faux cuts from the same joker. We also apparently have the same testing company. Small world? Coincidence? More than likely our shared experience would be viewed as a consensus. If only some benevolent cult leader would recruit us into their fold. Then we could receive the real cuts, but not until we are thetan free and have reached the appropriate degree of attainment....

 

[MtGrownCanna]

To be honest, I watch all the craziness and hype around here and don't think much of it. In the end, it's about getting high off real tasty buds. I did live in Santa Barbara for over a year. Smoked a ton of killer sativas between '90 and '92. Although the flavors were much different than NYC's buds, they were no better than NYC or what I get these days in CO... Cali has good weed, but Cali has great actors!

 

[AlterEgo860]

gota do mad work to make this stable.. if u know about the Sour d and og kush background. it comes from bagseed.. more then likely hermi.. and displays some shitty hermi traits if stressed. some breeders have made some amazing seeds from it. but watch out.. don't wana see your entire grow because u just bought something that sounded good.. do the research.. look for grow journals before purchasing!...

 

[symbiote420]

THC testing is a marketing plow ....those numbers don't mean shit! A 14% - 15% THC strain can blow a 23% one out of the frame! They are only testing the quality of thc in the resins not the quantity of resins!! Then it's the actual combination of cannabiniods and terpenes that makes up the whole sum (potency, taste, smell, high, etc.) of the strain/cross.

 

[symbiote420]

I like alot of the peeps listed but is femming actually breeding? As much is it pains me to say Swerve has probably done the best job with breeding OGs ....his seeds have infiltrated dispensaries as thee actual clone onlys'!! Gotta search thru a grip of reg OGs to find a good OG dom ime!

 

[Luk E Bag]

Anyone that's been around as long as you surely has seen and smelled the similarities. Related genes have related terpene profiles: chem whatever, Larry, sour diesel, headband. At some point they came from skunk . At least that's what my nose says. Some nasty afghani skunk. The retarded "breeder" that found them asbagseed was probably lied to by the "breeder" that sold it to him. He couldn't just say yeah it's skunk from 89 because then all of his enigmatic charm and value would dissipate. Wouldn't you want to be the only guy on the lot with the dawg?

As far as Tahoe og goes it tastes identical to afgooey and banana kush. All three equally uninteresting to my tastes. Not bad just not exciting. "No mang this here be da og alien fire white cookie, it off da chain". I prefer my genetics to worked by folks with IQs above 70.

Due to the ease of selfing and femming these clowns have to fabricate a new silly name to throw the "dogs" off the trail. Otherwise all their " homies" would just self the same cut. Shameless really. Whatever happened to provenance? Just pm Shanti at MNS. One of the few companies with provenance. He has parentals to make anything. Describe your ideal terpene profile and stature and he will point you in the right direction. When you find it just don't be a douche and rename it. Give him props, credit where credit is due. Good growers get all the re$pect they can handle.

Pretty lame seed collection. Reminds me of some shit that I might find under my genetics fridge. I'd delete that pic of that weak pile before you lose street cred. I'm thinking you got a job cleaning up the expo center after the cup and found this shit on the ground. Just joking. Looks like we have similar tastes. I picked up a lot of the same stuff at the Seattle cup this year. I don't give two shits who pays enough to "win". I went two days just to talk to breeders and buy their seed. Picked up 17 or 18 packs, total custy. The only bad thing was the fake Reeferman guys got me for $200. Reef himself told me they were fakes. Other than that I saved lots of loot and got everything I wanted. Now I'll dispel all of the marketing hype by fighting all this gear to the death. Blood sport style.

Thats Kinda funny little guy. I think I clearly stated that I am in fact from Cali and have been around a while. You may grow mid grades and have spent thousands on seeds but I guaranty that my home grown from when I was 16 blows away anything you'll ever do. I think you specialize in teas right? Get that aerobic bacteria..fuck the anaerobic...you're a noob. Lets see some dank kid. I put these seeds up for pix posts. I fuck with the best clones and I'd guess half of your best strain came from one of my clones at one point...get on the nuts son. What are you working with? scared to answer? I thought so!

 

[Luk E Bag]

I like alot of the peeps listed but is femming actually breeding? As much is it pains me to say Swerve has probably done the best job with breeding OGs ....his seeds have infiltrated dispensaries as thee actual clone onlys'!! Gotta search thru a grip of reg OGs to find a good OG dom ime!

Exactly..The clone onlys around blow anything away in seed form. You may find something that holds its own against the big 3 but...it'd take like 1000 seeds. I remember that Swerve got a SFV and Bubba from our GH crew in 1999/2000. I like the guy...think he has some good stuff out. But its not the clone only...he has an s1 of sfv but he does have the best bubba cut ever...the real bubba...pre, pre-98.

 

[Luk E Bag]

Thats Kinda funny little guy. I think I clearly stated that I am in fact from Cali and have been around a while. You may grow mid grades and have spent thousands on seeds but I guaranty that my home grown from when I was 16 blows away anything you'll ever do. I think you specialize in teas right? Get that aerobic bacteria..fuck the anaerobic...you're a noob. Lets see some dank kid. I put these seeds up for pix posts. I fuck with the best clones and I'd guess half of your best strain came from one of my clones at one point...get on the nuts son. What are you working with? scared to answer? I thought so!

That sounded bad. Im drunk...we have the best strains here in Cali Period! Im sure you have some dankx but...not up to our top shelf level. I wish you the best with your purchases...if you're ever at a cali cup grab my new seeds

 

[Luk E Bag]

gota do mad work to make this stable.. if u know about the Sour d and og kush background. it comes from bagseed.. more then likely hermi.. and displays some shitty hermi traits if stressed. some breeders have made some amazing seeds from it. but watch out.. don't wana see your entire grow because u just bought something that sounded good.. do the research.. look for grow journals before purchasing!...

Not exactly. Fem'd seeds tend to hermie more than anything else but dutch master reverse will put an end to random bananas or some sacks ifs its not a true herm. I don't fuck w fem'd seeds...doing a side by side you'll know you've got to cull males and get that choice lady..