Silicone and hydro!

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Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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This is a really good thread. I'd like to see what more info people share about this.

@Seamaiden do you foliar with silica alone of do you mix any goodies In too?
IF I use it as a foliar, it's alone. I haven't had much need since I started adding rice hulls to my soil and coir mixes. Wanna know what they're high in? Potassium silicate. They take years to fully break down.
 
Natural

Natural

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I believe an acid has to be used as such. If you change the PH and raise it, it's no longer an acid. I think 5.5 might be worth a try.
So the more I read about salicyclic (willow bark..aspirin) the more I'm reading that it has a negative effect on glandualr trichomes across multiple species. So I've hit the brakes on this foliar project. Seems Jasmonic and alfafa might be the only viable natural PGR's when the rubber meets the road for cannabis. Curious to how Seamaiden sees it and wonder if she still employs aspirin in her foliars?

Also, have gotten quite far in regards to Silicic acid..what do you guys think of this as a source? http://www.bulksupplements.com/horsetail-extract-7.html
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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@Nightmare creature. You got a link to your article/s??

IME< What can happen is the silica is added to the res and then the ph gets out of range, then nutes are added, causing lockout.
silicon, ph to range, add nutes. Keep within a ph of 4.0 to 8.5


Could add kelp + humic/fulvic + citric acid (for ph adjustment) all with silicon.
foliar: silicon + neem. silica is used to emulsify the oil.
Bactillis is good for breaking down the organic matter than contains silica in the medium.



@Seamaiden Studies show it is important to get silicon into the roots.
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Effect of root and foliar applications of silicon on brown spot development in rice
D. C. Rezende, F. Á. Rodrigues, V. Carré-Missio, D. A. Schurt, I. K. Kawamura and G. H. Korndörfer
Abstract. Silicon (Si) application is a strategy to manage rice brown spot, but no studies have been conducted on Si as a foliar spray for control of this disease. The purpose of this study was to compare root and foliar Si applications on rice brown spot development, and to determine if there is a biochemical defence response. Rice plants (cv. Metica-1) were grown in a Si-deficient soil that received the following treatments: root application of calcium silicate (CS) (1.25 g/kg of soil), foliar application of potassium silicate (PS) (40 g/L), and control (leaves sprayed with distilled water). Thirty-day-old plants were inoculated with a conidial suspension of Bipolaris oryzae. Si concentration in rice tissue was markedly higher for CS compared with the other treatments. The intensity of Si deposition, as determined by X-ray microanalysis, between the adaxial and abaxial leaf blades of rice plants in the control treatment was similar. Si deposition occurred in both the adaxial and abaxial leaf blades of rice plants that received CS while this Si deposition only occurred on the adaxial leaf blades of plants that received PS. The area under brown spot progress curve (AUBSPC) was not significantly different between the PS and control treatments, but was significantly lower in plants grown in soil amended with CS. The values for the AUBSPC and the number of lesions (NL) per cm2 of leaf area decreased by 37 and 47%, respectively, with CS compared with the control. Conidial germination was not inhibited by PS. The concentration of total soluble phenolics and lignin-thioglycolic acid derivatives was not linked with the reduction observed in the AUBSPC and the NL. Although the concentration of these two biochemical variables seemed to be slightly higher in plants from the control treatment, likely due to the greater disease severity and the NL, rice tissue was not efficiently protected against colonisation by B. oryzae. The results of this study suggest that foliar-applied Si can decrease the intensity of brown spot; however, the level of control achieved was not as great as that obtained when Si was supplied to the roots.


Effect of root and foliar applications of soluble silicon on powdery mildew control and growth of wheat plants
M.-H. Guével & J. G. Menzies & R. R. Bélanger
Abstract Foliar and root applications of different silicon (Si)-based formulations were evaluated for their effects in reducing powdery mildew and pro- moting growth of wheat plants. X-ray microanalyses of treated plants revealed that root applications resulted in consistent deposition of Si in the leaves. In terms of powdery mildew control, root applications at 1.7 mM Si gave consistently the best results, reducing disease severity by as much as 80%, regardless of the product used. Although less effective than root applications, foliar treatments with both Si and nutrient salt solutions led to a significant reduction of powdery mildew on wheat plants. This suggests a direct effect of the products on powdery mildew rather than one mediated by the plant as in the case of root amendments. In our experiments, Si amendment, either through the roots or the leaves, did not increase plant growth.These results lead to the conclusion that Si is primarily, if not exclusively, absorbed by the root system and that such absorption by the roots is necessary for an optimal prophylactic effect.



ph range of 4-8.5 is safe zone for silicon = silicic acid

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Articles on silica
Boron's Role in Silica Uptake
Hugh Lovelhttp://www.quantumagriculture.com/node/181
Biochemical%20Sequence%203a%20%282%29.jpg



Silica – The Hidden Cost of Chemicals
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/2010/06/silica-the-hidden-cost-of-chemicals/
Potassium silicate is a good soluble form of silica but it is not compatible with many other fertilisers and must often be applied as a standalone. One way out of this limitation is to use a pre-formulated potassium silicate-based fertiliser which includes other synergists.

@Natural, Horsetail and Comfrey both contain silicic acid.
 
N

nightmarecreature

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The info states silicic acid, the majority of silica on the market is potassium silicate, I think it might make a difference?

Aptus uses silicic acid. Rhino skin, silica blast, ProTekt are all potassium silicate. From what I read, silicic acid doesn't cause lockout.

My PH has always been in that range. I have to add my silica last in order to be in that PH range.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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The info states silicic acid, the majority of silica on the market is potassium silicate, I think it might make a difference?

Aptus uses silicic acid. Rhino skin, silica blast, ProTekt are all potassium silicate. From what I read, silicic acid doesn't cause lockout.

My PH has always been in that range. I have to add my silica last in order to be in that PH range.
Plants uptake silicon as silicic acid. Agsil16h is another option.
Just checking on the ph, some growers do not know that and cause fallout in the reservoir
 
Natural

Natural

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The info states silicic acid, the majority of silica on the market is potassium silicate, I think it might make a difference?

Aptus uses silicic acid. Rhino skin, silica blast, ProTekt are all potassium silicate. From what I read, silicic acid doesn't cause lockout.

My PH has always been in that range. I have to add my silica last in order to be in that PH range.
If I can add...what Aptus is saying is congruent with what Lead is trying to say about silicic acid..they say add to RO first then PH then add nutes then PH again. Mostly beacause it causes fall-out of the silicic acid to form non-soluables if it gets out of range from 4-8. Gleaned this article last night..a bit more clear print than Lead's Pdf concerning. http://msdssearch.dow.com/Published...seps/pdfs/noreg/609-02022.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

Also, I've heard that the if the silicic acid isn't buffered beneficials can suffer.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
So the more I read about salicyclic (willow bark..aspirin) the more I'm reading that it has a negative effect on glandualr trichomes across multiple species. So I've hit the brakes on this foliar project. Seems Jasmonic and alfafa might be the only viable natural PGR's when the rubber meets the road for cannabis. Curious to how Seamaiden sees it and wonder if she still employs aspirin in her foliars?

Also, have gotten quite far in regards to Silicic acid..what do you guys think of this as a source? http://www.bulksupplements.com/horsetail-extract-7.html
Not for quite a while, when I use it it's usually as a root drench.

Because I use rice hulls in my mixes, I haven't found a need to add or use extra Si forms.
 
altitudefarmer

altitudefarmer

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I read a long time ago that Humic/Fulvic acids make silica available for uptake. Can't remember where, but I found this.
I also use them to neutralize chloramines in tap water.

"The Fulvic Dissolver
Fulvic acid has a unique capacity to dissolve insoluble materials. Research suggests that iron, a poorly transported mineral, essential for all plant life, is dissolved, complexed and transported into the plant much more efficiently in the presence of this organic acid. A low-molecular weight piggyback ensures easy access and improved translocation of the iron cation.

Fulvic acid also solubilises potassium. Potassium is the most expensive of the minerals from a fertilising perspective, but large reserves are present, in insoluble form, in all but the lightest of soils. Potassium released by the ‘fulvic dissolver’ will reduce fertilising costs.

Silica is the flavour of the month in soil science circles. Fulvic acid has a particularly strong solubilising potential for silica. Water-soluble silica performs a similar role to calcium, strengthening cell walls and building brix levels.

Research also confirms enhanced phosphate solubility and stability, but silica, potassium and phosphate are all more susceptible to fulvic solubilisation in the presence of iron. Fulvic acid has an affinity for iron and can actually transport three to ten times its own weight of this metal. The mineral products most susceptible to disintegration by fulvic acid are those that contain the highest percentage of iron. NTS Soft Rock ™ contains phosphorous (10%), silica (25%) and iron (2%)*. The solubility of this product could definitely be enhanced by fulvic acid. Rock dust also contains good iron levels, and most rock mineral fertilisers will perform better with fulvic acid.

*These percentages may vary. Please refer to Product Information Sheet for up to date analysis."
 
gliders420

gliders420

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Not for quite a while, when I use it it's usually as a root drench.

Because I use rice hulls in my mixes, I haven't found a need to add or use extra Si forms.

Can I ask how you know it's working? I thought it took a long time for the Si to be broken down and available from rice hulls? Ive never been able to tell if my silica has been working or not using aptus in the medium or the silica from botanicare.... Never together
 
Natural

Natural

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I read a long time ago that Humic/Fulvic acids make silica available for uptake. Can't remember where, but I found this.
I also use them to neutralize chloramines in tap water.

"The Fulvic Dissolver
Fulvic acid has a unique capacity to dissolve insoluble materials. Research suggests that iron, a poorly transported mineral, essential for all plant life, is dissolved, complexed and transported into the plant much more efficiently in the presence of this organic acid. A low-molecular weight piggyback ensures easy access and improved translocation of the iron cation.

Fulvic acid also solubilises potassium. Potassium is the most expensive of the minerals from a fertilising perspective, but large reserves are present, in insoluble form, in all but the lightest of soils. Potassium released by the ‘fulvic dissolver’ will reduce fertilising costs.

Silica is the flavour of the month in soil science circles. Fulvic acid has a particularly strong solubilising potential for silica. Water-soluble silica performs a similar role to calcium, strengthening cell walls and building brix levels.

Research also confirms enhanced phosphate solubility and stability, but silica, potassium and phosphate are all more susceptible to fulvic solubilisation in the presence of iron. Fulvic acid has an affinity for iron and can actually transport three to ten times its own weight of this metal. The mineral products most susceptible to disintegration by fulvic acid are those that contain the highest percentage of iron. NTS Soft Rock ™ contains phosphorous (10%), silica (25%) and iron (2%)*. The solubility of this product could definitely be enhanced by fulvic acid. Rock dust also contains good iron levels, and most rock mineral fertilisers will perform better with fulvic acid.

*These percentages may vary. Please refer to Product Information Sheet for up to date analysis."

Good info Alti!! Just bought some Ful-Humic from a company called BioAg out of OR. Gonna go back and get the Ful-Power. Stuff is cheap and highly concentrated. I only got Humic..due to the rule of Humic for soil..and Fulvic for foliar...thanks again.
 
Natural

Natural

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Not for quite a while, when I use it it's usually as a root drench.

Because I use rice hulls in my mixes, I haven't found a need to add or use extra Si forms.


Ya..I get confused between Salicyclic acid and silicic acid all the time. Been reading that aspirin is salicyclic acid and that is a plant protection trigger like jasmonic acid is...only salicyclic acid tends to decrease glandular trichomes and if you add aspirin to soil...according to Ed Rosenthal is a way to reverse a females sex.
 
altitudefarmer

altitudefarmer

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This thread has got me thinking. Mostly I only use Silica as pH up; in lower than recommended doses. No issues; but like gliders420 said: "How do you know it's working?"
I never really could tell, but always added it to hydro grows and soilless mixes.
 
gliders420

gliders420

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And hopefully this isn't too off topic: what aspirin to use??? Every thing at the store is coated or seems like to much crap and not enough aspirin....
 
Natural

Natural

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And hopefully this isn't too off topic: what aspirin to use??? Every thing at the store is coated or seems like to much crap and not enough aspirin....
Not sure I'd ever use aspirin..why do you want to? I think scarring/injuring the plant would prove more fruitful. To answer, I think it's 1 uncoated aspirin per gallon.
 
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nightmarecreature

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I would never add grains to my coco. Grains mold faster than just about anything. Seems like a great way to cause root rot or a fungus infestation.

I use humic acid in my nute mix without any problems. When I tried using Fulvic acid in my nute mix, it just burned the crap out of my plants. When I use Fulvic as a foliar spray, my plants like it. Fulvic is strong stuff, be careful.
 
Natural

Natural

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Supposed to help get the plant thriving again a after a pest infestation... Or so I've read
I've read that too! Aspirin is just a form of salicyclic acid..which is a plant signaler..gets the defense system on high alert. The more I read about trans species studies though, the more I think it is not a good option for cannabis.
 
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