How To Correct Nute Lockout In Coots Mix?

[Organikz]

If no till is what you're aiming for here ya go. This thread was written by a good friend of Clackamas

https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/no-till-gardening-revisited.1400505/

 

[Minitiger]

Here's your problem. You are literally not following Coots method whatsoever. You're doing transplants? Do you have the instruction manual. There is a feed schedule first of all. 2nd you need a minimum 10g pot in my experience.

Are you utilizing coconut water, MBP, fulvic acid? If you need help i can send you to no till revisited. Its a step by step guide.

Coots mix is for no till. It isn't a good mix for your style.

Yeah, dude, I'm doing all that. Fulvic, TM7 twice a grow, coconut water if I don't have time for a corn SST, aloe, K silicate. I guess I forgot to mention that. I don't use any kind of schedule because my results are always stellar. Good enough for me, anyway, and good enough for anybody who's ever blazed my weed. It always turns out sticky, stinky, smooth and stony.

I've used three gallons and seven gallons in the past no problem. In fact, that's all I've used. It works fine. I've considered no-tills and probably will use that method at some point in the future, but that won't be for a while. Coots mix isn't strictly for no-till. At least it ain't for me. This is the first time I've experienced any sort of issue at all, with the exception of my first grow using his mix, which is when I experienced my first Mg deficiency. A simple epsom salt drench fixed that right up.

Believe me, I've read and read and read all that stuff. I'm aware of those schedules. But I don't like schedules haha! I do things when I think they need to be done and it's always worked out pretty well. And I have a big-ass bag of barley and corn sitting around. It's gonna get used whether or not SST's are "obsolete." They weren't obsolete a few years ago, not too sure why they'd be "obsolete" now.

 

[Organikz]

Yeah, dude, I'm doing all that. Fulvic, TM7 twice a grow, coconut water if I don't have time for a corn SST, aloe, K silicate. I guess I forgot to mention that. I don't use any kind of schedule because my results are always stellar. Good enough for me, anyway, and good enough for anybody who's ever blazed my weed. It always turns out sticky, stinky, smooth and stony.

I've used three gallons and seven gallons in the past no problem. In fact, that's all I've used. It works fine. I've considered no-tills and probably will use that method at some point in the future, but that won't be for a while. Coots mix isn't strictly for no-till. At least it ain't for me. This is the first time I've experienced any sort of issue at all, with the exception of my first grow using his mix, which is when I experienced my first Mg deficiency. A simple epsom salt drench fixed that right up.

Believe me, I've read and read and read all that stuff. I'm aware of those schedules. But I don't like schedules haha! I do things when I think they need to be done and it's always worked out pretty well. And I have a big-ass bag of barley and corn sitting around. It's gonna get used whether or not SST's are "obsolete." They weren't obsolete a few years ago, not too sure why they'd be "obsolete" now.

Okie dokie...enjoy the wall. That Epsom salt is covering the issue up. It's more complicated. It will work temporarily.

I really feel the need to help you out bud. This is your issue but you need to read much more.

"Cation-exchange capacity (CEC) is a measure of how many cations can be retained on soil particle surfaces.[1] Negative charges on the surfaces of soil particles bind positively-charged atoms or molecules (cations), but allow these to exchange with other cations in the surrounding soil water.[2] This is one of the ways that solid materials in soil alter the chemistry of the soil water. CEC affects many aspects of soil chemistry, and is used as a measure of soil fertility, as it indicates the capacity of the soil to retain several nutrients (e.g. K+, NH4+, Ca2+) in plant-available form. It also indicates the capacity to retain pollutant cations (e.g. Pb2+)."

 

[Organikz]

What's the CEC of a solid root mass yah think?

In the future don't ask for help then tell people you have it all figured out.

Grind the corn and barley and top dress it. Water it in with fulvic acid/aloe/silica. You made an SST.

 

[Minitiger]

What's the CEC of a solid root mass yah think?

In the future don't ask for help then tell people you have it all figured out.

Grind the corn and barley and top dress it. Water it in with fulvic acid/aloe/silica. You made an SST.

But but but but.... I thought SSTs were obsolete! What difference does it make if I sprout seeds, blend them up, add fulvic and K silicate and then drench or if I grind the seeds and top dress with it? It's the same shit, applied differently.

At no time did I say I have it figured out (obviously; why the fuck else would I post this thread?). But thanks for the advice, guy. You're literally the first person who's trolled me at the farm, so.... There's that. I could explain the circumstances behind my current grow, why there's a massive rootball etc, but it's all right here in this thread. Also, I don't respond well to people who come at me with a holier-than-thou attitude, so I'm done with you. I appreciate your taking the time to type your posts, though.

Happy 4th of July, everybody.

 

[Organikz]

But but but but.... I thought SSTs were obsolete! What difference does it make if I sprout seeds, blend them up, add fulvic and K silicate and then drench or if I grind the seeds and top dress with it? It's the same shit, applied differently.

At no time did I say I have it figured out (obviously; why the fuck else would I post this thread?). But thanks for the advice, guy. You're literally the first person who's trolled me at the farm, so.... There's that. I could explain the circumstances behind my current grow, why there's a massive rootball etc, but it's all right here in this thread. Also, I don't respond well to people who come at me with a holier-than-thou attitude, so I'm done with you. I appreciate your taking the time to type your posts, though.

Happy 4th of July, everybody.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want info that gives a better success rate. I just wanted to help yah out.

When I said you made an SST I meant figuratively. That is the replacement for a SST. No mess. Top dress water and done.

If I someone told me how to do my job with 1/2 the effort I'd be all over it.

 

[Organikz]

I didn't mean to troll. I'm just trying to tell you from what I've learned. I had the same issue as you in a 7g. When I finally stepped up to a 10 it was smooth sailing.

Coots and many other growers that utilize his mix repeatedly state the importance of his feed schedule and even the systematic way it feeds the soil. Most important of all...a big pot.

You are the first grower this has worked for so congrats but I know it's not possible bro. I do it.

His recipe is targeting all aspects of the grow so when you use his mix/schedule your root mass is going to be enormous. When I pulled that plant out of the 7g it was all roots.

Problems always occur mid flower. Your plant needs micro nutes and phos more than anything at this stage but your roots have no access to more soil to get to the stuff.

 

[Organikz]

Take it or leave it. I will link you to hundreds of posts where growers hit the wall. Even me...

And there's no way your watering without runoff unless you're water 5x a day. Runoff is bad in this mix.

 

[Organikz]

I do want to take the time to apologize. I was just trying to help. Do you think I would be mixing 150g of Coots mix today if I only needed 24g to grow 6 plants?

I hope I did accomplish what I set out to accomplish.

I pissed you off hoping you would dive into more research. This is what I end up doing and then I come out with more knowledge.

I want to see you grow buds that feel like someone hit you in the teeth with a Louisville slugger. And you will.

You just have to decide on a super soil grow in a 5g or a Coots mix grow in a 10+.
I really didn't mean harm and didn't mean to come off holier than thou.

No till is a passion and I understand that Coots mix relies on humus, microherds and other cultures in the soil food web that drive the system. These cultures take time to develop.

 

[Minitiger]

I do want to take the time to apologize. I was just trying to help. Do you think I would be mixing 150g of Coots mix today if I only needed 24g to grow 6 plants?

I hope I did accomplish what I set out to accomplish.

I pissed you off hoping you would dive into more research. This is what I end up doing and then I come out with more knowledge.

I want to see you grow buds that feel like someone hit you in the teeth with a Louisville slugger. And you will.

You just have to decide on a super soil grow in a 5g or a Coots mix grow in a 10+.
I really didn't mean harm and didn't mean to come off holier than thou.

No till is a passion and I understand that Coots mix relies on humus, microherds and other cultures in the soil food web that drive the system. These cultures take time to develop.

Thanks for the apology. I knew you meant "figuratively" re: the SST thing. But grinding seeds up sounds like more work than throwing some sprouts in a blender, as does some "on day 1 you do this, on day 2 you do this, on day 3 you do this"-type schedule. Like I said, I've read all of that stuff. I've read the no-till thread on grasscity, I've read and read and read. I don't have a job, so reading's pretty much all I do, all day every day. Whether or not you believe it's not possible to get damn good results doing shit the way I do it is irrelevant; I've smoked my weed, it's awfully good.

I've been using Coot's mix for four or five grows now, I just recycle it and reammend every other grow. Until my current grow, I haven't experienced any problems. Is this "the wall" that you're referring to? Yeah, probably. Lesson learned. But I really don't see the point in constantly adding shit to my water. It's costly, number one, and number two, it defeats the purpose of growing completely organically (at least it does in my mind). If I wanted to constantly be adding shit to my water and maintaining some sort of schedule, I'd grow hydroponically. I add stuff to my water when I feel like it and I get really, really amazing results. I have three completed journals right here at the farm, you're welcome to check them out to see that it's possible to get great yields of very, very good herb growing in three and seven gallon smart pots using this soil mix.

Again, thanks for the apology. I was actually a little irritated last night when I went to bed and that's not cool. I like to think of the farm as my refuge from internet trolls, so I was a little disappointed that I ran into that here.

 

[Minitiger]

I dunno, @Organikz what do you think? Are those colas "baseball bat-y" enough for ya? Some Tree of Life that I grew last year, five ounces in a three gallon pot. She's all yellowed up because that hybrid is a serious N hog, plus they took twelve weeks to finish. Those were the first plants I've had yellow up on me like that, but they were damn good and very very stinky.

Here's a close-up of a nug on that plant:

 

[Organikz]

Very beautiful. Well what can I say? You have me at a loss. I'll go tell all the no till gardeners to throw out their 6x3 beds and grab some 3g pots.

 

[stonestacker]

Very beautiful. Well what can I say? You have me at a loss. I'll go tell all the no till gardeners to throw out their 6x3 beds and grab some 3g pots.

Ass

 

[Minitiger]

Ass

Dude.... For real. Thank you. I didn't want to go there, but thank YOU for doing it for me haha!

I'm not trying to swing my dick or anything, not trying to show off, but when someone says something "can't be done" when I've done it.....

All I was really doing when I started this thread was seeing if anybody could help me out and tell me what was going on with my current grow haha! Definitely didn't expect someone to come in and go,"No no no! You're doing everything wrong!" and tell me what I should or shouldn't post "in the future."

 

[Organikz]

I apologize but your thread started saying you were water only then you were following the recipe loosely and at this point I don't know what you're doing.

Some people rely on this for medicine. I don't want people to think you can run Coots mix in a 3g with no problems. If you actually do then you're an astounding gardener who defies the laws of soil solution chemistry and CEC.

I have worked with Coots mix bro. I have made hundreds of gallons and I am about to make 100 more. I know better. You're giving people a false sense of security.

Believe me 9 times out of 10 your problem is caused by your roots running out of soil.

 

[Minitiger]

I apologize but your thread started saying you were water only then you were following the recipe loosely and at this point I don't know what you're doing.

Some people rely on this for medicine. I don't want people to think you can run Coots mix in a 3g with no problems. If you actually do then you're an astounding gardener who defies the laws of soil solution chemistry and CEC.

I have worked with Coots mix bro. I have made hundreds of gallons and I am about to make 100 more. I know better. You're giving people a false sense of security.

Believe me 9 times out of 10 your problem is caused by your roots running out of soil.

Clearly YOU don't want people to think that they can run Coot's mix in three gallon pots with no problem. That's pretty dang obvious. But it can be done. I've done it. Multiple times. Just because YOU had issues with it and other people had issues with it doesn't mean it "can't be done." I think that what you're referring to when you talk about the issues associated with Coot's mix in smaller pots is that people who try to do a living mulch in smaller pots don't see good results. The issue isn't with the mix itself in smaller pots, it's the living mulch aspect that maybe causes problems. I use barley mulch and wouldn't try to utilize a living mulch unless I was in a minimum of fifteen gallon pots (but probably more like twenty-five gallons).

And I didn't start this thread saying that I'm "water only." I said I'm pretty much water only, which I am. It says right here on this thread and in every grow log I've ever posted that I will give my plants an occasional SST or coconut or aloe or whatever. I do things when it occurs to me to do it. Sorry if that method doesn't work for you, but it works for me.

Fuck, man, why am I even explaining myself to you? See? This is what trolls do; get people all riled up over nothing. And re: the "some people rely on this for medicine" thing: yes. I do. I rely on it for medicine. And the shit I grow works. Every single motherfuckin' time.

I'm happy for you that you have a system/regimen that works for you. I'm aware of the methods that you're utilizing. Carry on, brotha.

 

[Organikz]

I'm sorry bud. NTG is a passion and you're kind of crossing the tracks. You claim it works okay. Coot designed this soil and the system to build it with an understanding of soil science down to an ionic level. Every input replicates exactly what happens in nature.

I am not saying you are wrong. I'm merely delivering the message for coot. I can tell you he is passionate as hell about what he does and he wouldn't like information regarding his soil or his system being put out incorrectly and his number one thing is big pots.

Never met the guy personally but have learned a lot from his close friends. His basis is a renewable way of cultivation. He will also tell you himself to start yourself on a path to certain success and not a potential bumpy road.

You want to see dank?

I was also trying to tell ya how to avoid the OP problem altogether. You're right it's your grow.

 

[Minitiger]

So I watered with Epsom salts this morning, @xenon730 I'll post pics in a few days. Hopefully, the plants will be looking significantly better. Thanks again for the advice, I appreciate it.

 

[xenon730]

So I watered with Epsom salts this morning, @xenon730 I'll post pics in a few days. Hopefully, the plants will be looking significantly better. Thanks again for the advice, I appreciate it.

awesome. with this plant you may want to work out a little food in the water if there is very little dirt. something you'll have to decide. basically I'm wondering if theres very little food and dirt left. you could add small epsom regularly and maybe a basic whole food you use or maybe even just see if you can add some hot mix to topdress with. you know well enough to decide this imo just might be something to watch for. this is almost a cool experiment for both the cut and the soil mix.

and I've actually never smoked cluster funk yet. that was 10 seeds gifted to me and i have 1 ling away and am just going to finish them now. definitely love the genetic profile though and definitely excited to get to the end. i actually have kind of high hopes for one of the males here. noticeably vigorous, noticeably stinky and oily in veg, and is now flowering quick so far. more hype for males than females currently. I'm actually following your grow from genetic interest that's where i thought i saw you hate calmag lol. but that's not relevant to how you garden anyways.

 

[Minitiger]

awesome. with this plant you may want to work out a little food in the water if there is very little dirt. something you'll have to decide. basically I'm wondering if theres very little food and dirt left. you could add small epsom regularly and maybe a basic whole food you use or maybe even just see if you can add some hot mix to topdress with. you know well enough to decide this imo just might be something to watch for. this is almost a cool experiment for both the cut and the soil mix.

and I've actually never smoked cluster funk yet. that was 10 seeds gifted to me and i have 1 ling away and am just going to finish them now. definitely love the genetic profile though and definitely excited to get to the end. i actually have kind of high hopes for one of the males here. noticeably vigorous, noticeably stinky and oily in veg, and is now flowering quick so far. more hype for males than females currently. I'm actually following your grow from genetic interest that's where i thought i saw you hate calmag lol. but that's not relevant to how you garden anyways.

Word. Breed that male out! And feel free to post pics of your Clusterfunks in my log if you want. I tend to grow/document strains that have very little real info about them online (although I did grow some Goji last run; there's a billion logs of that one around), so the more info/pics that're in that log, the better. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine when I search for documented grows of strains I'm interested in and there's nothing out there.

I dunno about feeding the plants anymore. I'm really a "less is more" kinda guy, but I'll monitor the plants and react accordingly. I have a big ol' tub of my soil mix sitting in the garage, maybe I will top dress with a little bit of that. We'll see. The Clusterfunk is the plant showing the least amount of damage from the Mg deficiency, although it isn't looking up to my standards. Having said that, it's really, really starting to fill in now, may not need to do anything else at this point.