The Quest For Trichomes (a Story Of Micro Cultivation)

[Dutch Jon]

Well you should see something improve. . Now what the soil pH is supose to be is IMO undecided now when I grow with coir w/ 1/3 perlite I pH at 5.9 but what yours supose to be idk, maybe someone will chime in that regard...

 

[Mr Bee]

• Essentially you do have close to 6 .3 - 6.5 pH. Think about it, if it is 5.8 pH going in and coming out is 6.1 the actual pH of the mmedeium is above 6.1 I'd venture to say more than 3 points higher something like 6.4 So 1200 ppm run off and your only adding 1.5 ml/L? Do you know the ppm going in?

They use to say when in doubt flush it out. That way you coveted the bases so to speak.
Let's see a good way to explain it. If your car doesn't start the guy at the auto service center will check your battery first, check the amps, and what not. it's a process of elimination, it goes something like, if it's not the battery then it's the starter if it's not the starter it's the ignition you see? I would mind moving on to soil density and aeration or humidity air exchange and us help you narrow this down but we haven't eliminated pH or lock out posiblitys, or maybe we have, I apologize for not mentioning for you to check your ppm but it's really looking like there's some lockout going on that's why we check the pH going in and going out, cuz the higher runoff pH is indicating lockout and salts.

If in doubt flush it out is a coco thing.kinda like hitting the reset button but flushing in soil isn't something I would advise unless you know you have a good solid root zone that can deal with that amount of liquid.if not it could lead to damping off problems

 

[Dutch Jon]

I've never heard that but have to say it's completely feasible.
I do like root development after cloning or even from seed I keep them warm if I can and use root products to assure it, one favorite is BioWars roots in a few days they really do explode not to mention a good growth spurt. Contingent on pot size good Roots make it that you can water/feed daily or at least every other day, when daily I reduce my EC to half plants like it..but that's me.

 

[SMACKA]

It's been 3 days so obviously not too much has changed, but after looking super droopy for a couple days the Purple Kush (on the right) has begun opening back up.

Hoping the next couple weeks bring these girls back from lime-green hell.

 

[SMACKA]

I need to take clones and everyone says not to take clones from - or flower - an unhealthy mom.

The problem is I'm running out of room in there. The tent's already going to be packed when I switch to flower and they stretch.

I'm hoping to take cuttings from the tall pieces, and flip the lights ASAP...

Any advice?

 

[Dutch Jon]

I need to take clones and 'everyone' says not to take clones from - or flower - an unhealthy mom..."

I concur with 'everyone'

 

[SMACKA]

It's been 5 days since flushing and there doesn't appear to be any improvement.

I'm stumped and need advice/help.

Is it possible my nutes are they themselves deficient? My nutes are old, but not expired.

If so... I was planning on switching to Jacks 3-2-1 in Coco Coir for my next run, seeing as I'm running out of Canna Terra soil. Should I perhaps switch to the Jacks 3-2-1 for these plants?

 

[xenon730]

Canna terra is soilless, not soil. Peat doesn't make it soil. Peat is the original inert media. Promix and most potting mixes are just peat, perlite, and nutes. Those plants should be getting 600ppm. You just flushed them right? Put in 600ppm of vega, ph to 6, and don't measure how much water you put through. A plant that big in a 3 gallon pot should need a gallon to soak when dry, you might not be fully saturating the media if you're measuring out 2l at a time. It's unlikely that your vega is bad. How did you just flush?

 

[SMACKA]

Canna terra is soilless, not soil. Peat doesn't make it soil. Peat is the original inert media. Promix and most potting mixes are just peat, perlite, and nutes. Those plants should be getting 600ppm. You just flushed them right? Put in 600ppm of vega, ph to 6, and don't measure how much water you put through. A plant that big in a 3 gallon pot should need a gallon to soak when dry, you might not be fully saturating the media if you're measuring out 2l at a time. It's unlikely that your vega is bad. How did you just flush?

Appreciate you weighing in. Quick correction: These girls are in 2 gallon pots, not 3 gallon pots. Knowing that, do you still think 600ppm is the right amount, or should I perhaps use a lighter mix of 400ppm since the plants are smaller than you'd originally thought?

I've been mixing nutes 4L at a time (1 gallon = 3.75 L), then feeding each pot 2L. You're saying I should be feeding 1gal each pot?

Here are the details on the Flush from page 1:

Alright so it took about an hour and half to flush the fuckers, but here are the stats.

Pots are 2 gallons (7.5 L) so flushing at 3x pot size demands 6 gallons (22.5 L) of water per pot.

I was mixing 4 L at a time, so pH wasn't super consistent but I kept it between 5.8–5.9

STAGE 1: BEFORE

Purple Kush:

• Plain water
• pH 5.85 (IN) / out 6.15 (OUT)
• ppm in 165 (IN) / out 390 (OUT)

White Widow:

• Plain water
• ph 5.85 (IN) / out 5.93 (OUT)
• ppm 165 (IN) / out 510 (OUT)

STAGE 2: AFTER 20 L Flush (Water)

Purple Kush:

• pH 6.05 (OUT)
• ppm 220 (OUT)

White Widow:

• pH 6.05 (OUT)
• ppm 220 (OUT)

STAGE 1: FINAL 4L

At this point I still had 2.5 L needed to hit the "3x pot size" rule, but run off was clear on both plants so I mixed nutes mixed to 1.5mL/L (380 ppm) and gave them another 4 L each.

Purple Kush:

• pH 6.05 (OUT)
• ppm 380 (IN) * didn't get out

White Widow:

• pH 6.05 (OUT)
• ppm 380 (IN), 230 (OUT)

 

[xenon730]

Appreciate you weighing in. Quick correction: These girls are in 2 gallon pots, not 3 gallon pots. Knowing that, do you still think 600ppm is the right amount, or should I perhaps use a lighter mix of 400ppm since the plants are smaller than you'd originally thought?

I've been mixing nutes 4L at a time (1 gallon = 3.75 L), then feeding each pot 2L. You're saying I should be feeding 1gal each pot?

Here are the details on the Flush from page 1:

They're not smaller than i thought really. I just didn't want to explain that 3 is close enough lol. And no, give them 600 at the right ph. They look very hungry. What water are you using? For the next water, give them a gallon. There might be more going on here though. They're showing so many conflicting things, I'm not totally positive on how many issues there are. Need to solve the problems we know we can fix like the hunger. It could also be the cause of all the symptoms. I'm worried about your roots and potential pests. Dont jump to conclusions, just being thorough. Fix the feeding first. How often do you water them btw? Do you wait until the top is dry?

 

[SMACKA]

They're not smaller than i thought really. I just didn't want to explain that 3 is close enough lol. And no, give them 600 at the right ph. They look very hungry. What water are you using? For the next water, give them a gallon. There might be more going on here though. They're showing so many conflicting things, I'm not totally positive on how many issues there are. Need to solve the problems we know we can fix like the hunger. It could also be the cause of all the symptoms. I'm worried about your roots and potential pests. Dont jump to conclusions, just being thorough. Fix the feeding first. How often do you water them btw? Do you wait until the top is dry?

Cool, thanks for the clarification. To each of your points:

They look very hungry. What water are you using? Tap water. I don't have access to RO, and I'm not interested in buying water/plastic bottles so I'm working with tap water. I tried to filter everything through a Brita but realized pretty quickly I wouldn't be able to keep up.

Need to solve the problems we know we can fix like the hunger. Thanks, I agree they look hungry, but in the other thread I was repeatedly told to scale back my nutes, and even got nasty PM's telling me to get over myself, so... I've just been trying to follow the advice I'm being given.

I'm worried about your roots and potential pests. Yeah, I appreciate you being candid. I knew at some point people would ask about critters. I've kept a very close eye and haven't seen anything in the way of pests. The roots are probably cramped, but otherwise I'm thinking they're doing well; they're all the way up at the surface of the soil.

How often do you water them btw? Do you wait until the top is dry? I've been waiting until the media is bone dry and the plants seem hungry (I'm watching body language for this, not sure how to explain it but I'm guessing you know what I'm talking about)... trying to hit that spot where they're 'deflated' but not yet wilting. Currently it's every 3-4 days, but this week (after the huge flush) it's going to be 6-7 days.

 

[xenon730]

Cool, thanks for the clarification. To each of your points:

They look very hungry. What water are you using? Tap water. I don't have access to RO, and I'm not interested in buying water/plastic bottles so I'm working with tap water. I tried to filter everything through a Brita but realized pretty quickly I wouldn't be able to keep up.

Need to solve the problems we know we can fix like the hunger. Thanks, I agree they look hungry, but in the other thread I was repeatedly told to scale back my nutes, and even got nasty PM's telling me to get over myself, so... I've just been trying to follow the advice I'm being given.

I'm worried about your roots and potential pests. Yeah, I appreciate you being candid. I knew at some point people would ask about critters. I've kept a very close eye and haven't seen anything in the way of pests. The roots are probably cramped, but otherwise I'm thinking they're doing well; they're all the way up at the surface of the soil.

How often do you water them btw? Do you wait until the top is dry? I've been waiting until the media is bone dry and the plants seem hungry (I'm watching body language for this, not sure how to explain it but I'm guessing you know what I'm talking about)... trying to hit that spot where they're 'deflated' but not yet wilting. Currently it's every 3-4 days, but this week (after the huge flush) it's going to be 6-7 days.

They said to scale it back because it looks like there's nitro tox particularly in the plant in the right and potential burn. But there's also phosphorous def, nitro def, and other things showing in other places. It's a big mess but the over feeding is clearly over if it took place so they need to be fed again. 600 won't burn or cause any toxicity in almost all cuts once they're 8-10" in height. What's the ppm of your start water? You shouldn't be waiting for peat to get bone dry. You should be watering when they entire top is dry but if you move it its moist underneath. Basically once the top is all the lighter color, water again. Those girls probably need it every 2-3 days.

 

[Dutch Jon]

@SMACKA
BRO, you might do a little foot work you'd find out stuff like this it would have covered alot of your questions. I've been suspecting your substrate does not have a lot of aeration and poor root development via their initial lighting and conditions early in grow. I use a lot of perlite even in coco coir, I even sift out the small partials to assure that it's Airy, it enables me to feed daily if needed plus plants like a certain moisture level so by feeding/water daily they have longer periods at preferred moisture and air.

From http://www.cannagardening.com/terra_vega

• TERRA nutrients are not recommended on North American bulk grade peat products that lack a nutrient starter charge and longer term pH control. (CANNA Substra is a better choice in this case)

Directions of use

• Shake the bottle well before use
• Dosage: 0.6 fl oz/Gal (50 ml/10L) maximum
• Recommended EC: 0.9 - 1.6 mS/cm (=EC of the nutrient mix)
• When growing intensively, please feed the plant regularly with the solution.
  • Use solution 1 to 3 times a week when using a fertile soil
  • If growing in less fertile soil, use the solution daily
• It’s recommended to grow on well - aerated calcareous soil or organic (peat, bark etc) based soilless mixes

 

[SMACKA]

Even though you're insinuating I'm lazy without reason or proof, I appreciate that you're trying to help.

I posted that feeding schedule back in April and got jumped all over by people saying those numbers were way too high, that 3mL/L was the maximum I should ever be feeding with those nutes, and that I should be feeding at 1mL/L.

Even when there was a mix up and I fed them more than 3mL/L, then reported the plants were looking healthier, I was told by many (including you) that the plants didn't need more and to continue looking at lowering pH out while feeding 1mL/L.


---


Today's Update

They each got 4L (1.1 gal) of water, nutes mixed in at 595 ppm (12mL/L), then pH'd to 6.

Will report back in a few days with any progress.

 

[Dutch Jon]

"...I was told by many (including you) that the plants didn't need more..."

You didn't here that from me, also didn't suggest a pH value, I specifically remarked that it is undecided but gave an example what I do with Coco and perlite, which obviously you are not using... so you don't have to blame me for someone else advise.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...f-micro-cultivation.90537/page-2#post-1970754

 

[Organikz]

Here's what I'm thinking. It's environment or input. They look overwatered. You say you don't water enough when you do? You need to be doing a soak and dry out schedule. When I say dry out I mean bone dry to your first knuckle when you stick your finger in the dirt.

 

[Organikz]

You're experiencing P and K lock which suck as they cause micro nute locks. Some strains have more taste for phos...usually indica IME. Sativa is a nitro whore until late flower, then it doesn't want any.

That's the thing about bottled nutes. There are a lot of variables. It's not always boiler plate.

These plants have adapted to different nutrient ratios depending on what's most abundant in their indigenous region.

Like I said the first thing to check is environment. Cold roots don't function properly. Make sure your tent isn't getting too cold at night. Scope for mites. It's impossible to avoid spider mites unless you have literally sealed everything including installing mesh screens on intakes and exhausts. Mites can be carried by wind.

Do u practice an IPM?

 

[SMACKA]

Sup Organikz, hope you're having a good day.

Here's what I'm thinking. It's environment or input. They look overwatered. You say you don't water enough when you do? You need to be doing a soak and dry out schedule. When I say dry out I mean bone dry to your first knuckle when you stick your finger in the dirt.

I've been letting them get bone-dry between feeds, so it shouldn't an over-watering issue. Is it possible I've been letting them get too dry, as per @xenon730's comment: "You shouldn't be waiting for peat to get bone dry"??

Like I said the first thing to check is environment. Cold roots don't function properly. Make sure your tent isn't getting too cold at night. Scope for mites. It's impossible to avoid spider mites unless you have literally sealed everything including installing mesh screens on intakes and exhausts. Mites can be carried by wind.

Do u practice an IPM?

Temps are 20–25°C at night, and 25-29°C when light's are on. Those temps are a little high but reasonable considering the space.

I have been looking for crawlies for a couple weeks and haven't seen anything so far. The tent stays zipped up and the intakes (but not exhausts) have mesh screens on them. No pest management yet, this is my first run. Anything you'd suggest?

 

[Organikz]

Sup Organikz, hope you're having a good day.



I've been letting them get bone-dry between feeds, so it shouldn't an over-watering issue. Is it possible I've been letting them get too dry, as per @xenon730's comment: "You shouldn't be waiting for peat to get bone dry"??



Temps are 20–25°C at night, and 25-29°C when light's are on. Those temps are a little high but reasonable considering the space.

I have been looking for crawlies for a couple weeks and haven't seen anything so far. The tent stays zipped up and the intakes (but not exhausts) have mesh screens on them. No pest management yet, this is my first run. Anything you'd suggest?

Sorry I forget you're soiless. Yah @xenon730 is right about that. Even if you aren't organic neem or karanja oil is the best IPM. Contains 200 different natural limoids that all just absolutely destroy mites. It prevents molting, reproduction and pretty much having any instincts to live at all. It also causes them to vomit profusely.

I use a tsp of neem oil, 1/4 tsp of aloe powder and protekt as an emulsifier. I put this in a quart of warm water. Shake the hell out of it and shake every once and a while during application to keep the oil suspended. Not to be used on flowers. The plant can absorb the oil systemically and it lasts about 2 weeks.

Don't go cheap. The nature's choice is garbage and even bonide. Get dynagro or neem resource.

The neem tree comes from india. People would wonder why all the crops would get eaten by locusts but they didn't touch the neem tree. It has been used for over a century.

 

[Dutch Jon]

I use a tsp of neem oil, 1/4 tsp of aloe powder

So how's that working out for you?