10,000 Watt 10 Plant 13 Gallon Rdwc [3d Model Incl. Inside Thread]

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cccmints

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13 gallon buckets. 50 gallon reservoir. 2" water pump pvc connections. 1/2" air pump tube connections. Basing the design off this: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/12-x-1000-watt-xxl-8x24-scrog.48467/

Preview of Model
Model_Preview.png

Model
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/4d671bdc-e139-4bcb-af18-009b91286aeb/10k-Hydroponics-Setup
For full view install this program then download and open the file with SketchUp.



I've grown a couple of times but never like this. I'm not going to pull the trigger until I'm satisfied I've got everything hammered out. If anyone has any ideas to contribute or see any flaws please discuss here. I haven't chosen a strain or nutrient line yet. I'd like to shoot for around 1.5lbs per plant but I know that will take practice. I've heard people with similar setups going far beyond that, even past the 2s.

Equipment
50 Gal Reservoir
Aura Systems 36,000 BTU Mini-Split Air Conditioner
Ideal-Air Dehumidifier 120 Pint w/ Internal Condensate Pump
Aprilaire 800 Residential Steam Humidifier
2x Jebao Inline Pond Pump 1500gph
Hailea V-30 1800L/Hour Air Pump
Active Aqua Chiller 1HP
Titan Controls Ares 8 CO2 Generator
Can Max Fan Mixed Flow Inline Fan, 10-Inch 1023 CFM
 
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cccmints

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What do you guys think about LED? I know HID is the tried and true, but I wonder if technology has gotten to the point where LED is worth using for a grow of this scale. I've read 650 watt LED = 1000 watt HID (depending on a million different factors for the specific LED compared of-course). Anyone have experience in this area?
 
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cccmints

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lmao.u read wrong my friend.stick with hid whether it b cmh,hps...a cob to compare to 1000hps is $1400 to build.im n middle of trying this soon
I haven't done in-depth LED research to say the least lol. After a little searching today though it seems like the only possibly comparable LEDs are very expensive as you say. Not worth it yet.
 
fatawa

fatawa

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I haven't done in-depth LED research to say the least lol. After a little searching today though it seems like the only possibly comparable LEDs are very expensive as you say. Not worth it yet.
na..i had a cob guy tell me once(n i believe this shit)led=yugo,cob=prius w/nitros,hps=american muscle car.lmfao.i got 8k of light.its hard to justify the price.im going build a couple n put this to the test.try to build one n we both will compare.
 
GT21

GT21

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na..i had a cob guy tell me once(n i believe this shit)led=yugo,cob=prius w/nitros,hps=american muscle car.lmfao.i got 8k of light.its hard to justify the price.im going build a couple n put this to the test.try to build one n we both will compare.
A prius with nos hahaha.. thats like a bicycle with a turbo
 
fatawa

fatawa

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What do you guys think about LED? I know HID is the tried and true, but I wonder if technology has gotten to the point where LED is worth using for a grow of this scale. I've read 650 watt LED = 1000 watt HID (depending on a million different factors for the specific LED compared of-course). Anyone have experience in this area?
if you really want answers to this tho heres your guy.he does some sweet shit with cobs. @sixstring
 
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cccmints

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if you really want answers to this tho heres your guy.he does some sweet shit with cobs. @sixstring
I've checked out @sixstring and a few others. I also did a bit of math regarding the subject.

I used this to copy a build for what I'd consider a cost-effective, high quality equivalent to 1000w HPS:

FV: 34.9v x 1.450a = 50.6 watts per cob x 12 = 607.26 watts
607.26 watts x 56% efficient = 340.0656 PARwatts
340.0656 PARwatts x 90% (10% loss in photons due to walls, reflectors etc.) = 306.05904 PARw
306.05904 PARw x 4.67 (specific QER for that light so urce) = 1429.2957168µmol/s
1429.2957168 µmol/s divided by your space (4x4 per light) in meters = 961.5506909138818 PPFD for led

So about 961 PPFD for a 600w LED and 1158 PPFD for a 1000w HPS. Meaning nearly 20% greater performance with a 1000w HPS compared to a 600w LED. And for the cost...

Around $450 for a 1000w HPS fixture and $950 for a 600w LED fixture.

HPS: $4500
LED: $9500
$1200/year in bulb replacements (2x per year) with HPS. $167/month saved using LED over HPS. Hard to calculate money saved with LED due to lesser cooling demand. Theoretically, it would take around 1.5 years for LED to pay for itself and that's disregarding the basic research I did pointing to 600w LED being inferior to standard 1000w HPS by 20%. It looks like the only option I'd have would be to increase the initial cost of going LED even more by running a 700-800w fixture...At $5k increased costs as is, I'm not sure I'm willing to do that. I may look into LED again in a couple of years when they're cheaper/more advanced and I've earned some money from the HPS. LED is definitely interesting though...
 
sixstring

sixstring

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I've checked out @sixstring and a few others. I also did a bit of math regarding the subject.

I used this to copy a build for what I'd consider a cost-effective, high quality equivalent to 1000w HPS:

FV: 34.9v x 1.450a = 50.6 watts per cob x 12 = 607.26 watts
607.26 watts x 56% efficient = 340.0656 PARwatts
340.0656 PARwatts x 90% (10% loss in photons due to walls, reflectors etc.) = 306.05904 PARw
306.05904 PARw x 4.67 (specific QER for that light so urce) = 1429.2957168µmol/s
1429.2957168 µmol/s divided by your space (4x4 per light) in meters = 961.5506909138818 PPFD for led

So about 961 PPFD for a 600w LED and 1158 PPFD for a 1000w HPS. Meaning nearly 20% greater performance with a 1000w HPS compared to a 600w LED. And for the cost...

Around $450 for a 1000w HPS fixture and $950 for a 600w LED fixture.

HPS: $4500
LED: $9500
$1200/year in bulb replacements (2x per year) with HPS. $167/month saved using LED over HPS. Hard to calculate money saved with LED due to lesser cooling demand. Theoretically, it would take around 1.5 years for LED to pay for itself and that's disregarding the basic research I did pointing to 600w LED being inferior to standard 1000w HPS by 20%. It looks like the only option I'd have would be to increase the initial cost of going LED even more by running a 700-800w fixture...At $5k increased costs as is, I'm not sure I'm willing to do that. I may look into LED again in a couple of years when they're cheaper/more advanced and I've earned some money from the HPS. LED is definitely interesting though...
i would like to see what type of hps you used in the math and also what type of efficiency you used for that hps setup.i also do not see where you compare direct electrical savings when you weigh a 600w light vs a 1000w light you gain 400w instantly at the wall,never mind the lamp changes and cooling losses from leds.standard hps is lucky to see 30% efficient and prob closer to 28%,then you have massive dropoff in lumens within 2 to 3 months a 1000w will drop from about 1000ppfd to 650-700ppfd i have seen this with my own light meter.6 months is pushing it on any hps other than gavita.the double ended phillips lamp does seem to hold its numbers well past 6 months.
 
fatawa

fatawa

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then you have massive dropoff in lumens within 2 to 3 months a 1000w will drop from about 1000ppfd to 650-700ppfd i have seen this with my own light meter
i agree with forsure on this.im changin bulbs every 4-5months.this is y i was searching the cob scene.also this is y i was searching sixstring n particular cuz i kno if u build a cob subpar u can also hav drivers/lights burn out just as quick.he mayb comparing his numbers by pulling 220 and drop/split to 110.its the only way to go wen running multiple hps.i did buy 6 cmh(phillips bulb) just havnt pluggd them n yet.i am EXTREMELY curious if i drop split the cmh i wud save tons...as they r rated to pull 3amps ea compared to my 8amps ea of 1000.but like everyone im n search of penetration n i was thinking outside the box,i want 4 long rails(6ft ea) of cobs n throwing them under scrog nets shining up toward the cmh,which will b shining down on canopy
 
sixstring

sixstring

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i agree with forsure on this.im changin bulbs every 4-5months.this is y i was searching the cob scene.also this is y i was searching sixstring n particular cuz i kno if u build a cob subpar u can also hav drivers/lights burn out just as quick.he mayb comparing his numbers by pulling 220 and drop/split to 110.its the only way to go wen running multiple hps.i did buy 6 cmh(phillips bulb) just havnt pluggd them n yet.i am EXTREMELY curious if i drop split the cmh i wud save tons...as they r rated to pull 3amps ea compared to my 8amps ea of 1000.but like everyone im n search of penetration n i was thinking outside the box,i want 4 long rails(6ft ea) of cobs n throwing them under scrog nets shining up toward the cmh,which will b shining down on canopy
now cmh is where its at right now.some of those 630w cmh are doing 40+ % eff and most have very high cri in the 90 cri range.i will def be adding some of those setups to my flower room when and if i ever finish my new rooms.
 
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cccmints

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i would like to see what type of hps you used in the math and also what type of efficiency you used for that hps setup.i also do not see where you compare direct electrical savings when you weigh a 600w light vs a 1000w light you gain 400w instantly at the wall,never mind the lamp changes and cooling losses from leds.standard hps is lucky to see 30% efficient and prob closer to 28%,then you have massive dropoff in lumens within 2 to 3 months a 1000w will drop from about 1000ppfd to 650-700ppfd i have seen this with my own light meter.6 months is pushing it on any hps other than gavita.the double ended phillips lamp does seem to hold its numbers well past 6 months.
For the math I plugged in the numbers for the size fixture I'm looking at into an existing post on another forum. He didn't get into detail with his HPS calculations but I tried my hand at that and came out with an even higher PPFD, which I assume is because the advertised µmol/s rating is higher than reality. I used this light: https://growershouse.com/solis-tek-double-ended-de-1000w-lamp-hps-2k for the math I did.

(1)1000watts
(2)1000 x 36.5% efficient = 365 PARwatts
(3)365 PARwatts x 90% = 328.5 PARw
(4)Advertised @ 2078 μMol/s
(5)1397.962865370175 PPFD

I did compare the electrical savings and lamp changes but not the cooling differences due to me not being able to accurately account for what those differences would be.
$1200/year in bulb replacements (2x per year) with HPS. $167/month saved using LED over HPS. Hard to calculate money saved with LED due to lesser cooling demand.

I'm planning on a 3.5 month cycle. If HPS really degrades that fast then this decision seems like a no-brainer. I'd have to up the bulb costs to replacing after each cycle most likely and I'd still lose a lot of output before the cycle finishes if those numbers are accurate.

I spent a few hours looking through all of your posts @sixstring which made me even more intrigued by LED. I'm looking at around 5 months before I start this grow. I'm in the very early planning stages of this right now. I've only just started designing the whole thing. Initial PPFD is rather irrelevant if HPS cannot even hold those numbers throughout a single cycle.

If you were in my situation, how would you go about replicating a 10k watt HPS grow with LED?
 
sixstring

sixstring

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Well i just replaced my 12.8kw hid room with 6000w of led and 3 x 750w gavita so im just above 8kw now and my yields have been up for the space.plus my electric bill has gone from 1500.00+ per month to around 850 to 900.00 per month so im happy as hell.i can safely say im saving 500.00 a month on my power bill and pulling at least 1000.00 a month in extra yields,lights paid for themselves right quickly haha.
If you want a based # to safely use to replace double ended lamps with led i would use 750w of led for every 1000w de lamp.that number will assure you crush the hid numbers with havest weight.i started out thinking 600w for every 1000w of hid and im finding it to be very accurate. And i think the biggest reason is now i have total coverage of every sq inch of my room where the hid always had Hotspots and dead zones.plus with de lamps your running them like 2 to 4 ft above the plants so only right under the lamp gets real good intensity. My cobs are fuckin everywhere and they aint but 10 or 12 inches from the plants,so im seeing better bud development down by the soil then i ever did with hid.
 
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cccmints

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Well i just replaced my 12.8kw hid room with 6000w of led and 3 x 750w gavita so im just above 8kw now and my yields have been up for the space.plus my electric bill has gone from 1500.00+ per month to around 850 to 900.00 per month so im happy as hell.i can safely say im saving 500.00 a month on my power bill and pulling at least 1000.00 a month in extra yields,lights paid for themselves right quickly haha.
If you want a based # to safely use to replace double ended lamps with led i would use 750w of led for every 1000w de lamp.that number will assure you crush the hid numbers with havest weight.i started out thinking 600w for every 1000w of hid and im finding it to be very accurate. And i think the biggest reason is now i have total coverage of every sq inch of my room where the hid always had Hotspots and dead zones.plus with de lamps your running them like 2 to 4 ft above the plants so only right under the lamp gets real good intensity. My cobs are fuckin everywhere and they aint but 10 or 12 inches from the plants,so im seeing better bud development down by the soil then i ever did with hid.
I'm sold. Looks like I have a lot of learning ahead of me. This doesn't seem to be a cut and dry simple topic lol. I've got a basic cost including discounts for the size orders I'll be placing. I'm sure with more research and hopefully help from people such as yourself, I will be able to get the cost down by choosing smarter parts. Or the price will go up because the parts I've chosen are not optimal, lol.

36v x 1.3a = 46.8

This would be (10) 4'x4' frames with (16) COB CREE CXB3590 on each fixture running at 36v x 1.3a giving 748.8 watts @ 46.8 watts per COB. I've read that @48.85 watts and 1.4a CXB3590s run @56.34 efficiency so I'd imagine reaching around that figure if not better.

(40x ) 48" (4ft) Length 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/8" Aluminum Angle
https://www.metals4uonline.com/aluminum-angle-6061-3_4thsx3_4thsx1_8th
$770 - 10 Lights

(160x) KB-D82-90RF, LED Reflector for CREE CXB3590
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...ml?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.3c93b095O3a3Ye
$240 - 10 Lights

(10x) 100k OHM Linear Taper Rotary Potentiometer

$40 - 10 Lights

(30x) HLG-320H-C
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...l?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.10.3c93b095CUJaG8
$2370 - 10 Lights

(160x) LED Heat Sink

$1,490 - 10 Lights

(160x) COB CREE CXB3590 3500k 36V
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...l?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.25.3c93b095bwL9PY
$4,400 - 10 Lights

Total = $9,310 or $931/individual light

I can live with that price. What do you guys think? Just getting started with LED but to say I'm excited would be an understatement. I can't wait to post the finished room early next year.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...F9IZC&linkId=8d9e07361dd364e87f0e393633c0cc33
 
sixstring

sixstring

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its a good list but 10 of these are cheaper haha.
i know that prob dont help you decide on what to do.ill look at the list in depth tomorrow,might be ,should be able to shave a bunch of money off that list.but i can tell ya right now look at the vero 29,its like 25 bucks vs 48 you have listed for the cree cobs.
 
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cccmints

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its a good list but 10 of these are cheaper haha.
i know that prob dont help you decide on what to do.ill look at the list in depth tomorrow,might be ,should be able to shave a bunch of money off that list.but i can tell ya right now look at the vero 29,its like 25 bucks vs 48 you have listed for the cree cobs.
Wouldn't that light be inferior? 1127µmols/s compared to 1762µmols/s. I appreciate the help. Vero 29s don't look too bad but I'm actually getting the cree for $27.50/piece so wouldn't be saving a substantial amount of money with vero.
 

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