10,000 Watt 10 Plant 13 Gallon Rdwc [3d Model Incl. Inside Thread]

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h4ppyf4rmer

h4ppyf4rmer

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Wouldn't that light be inferior? 1127µmols/s compared to 1762µmols/s. I appreciate the help. Vero 29s don't look too bad but I'm actually getting the cree for $27.50/piece so wouldn't be saving a substantial amount of money with vero.

I got my vero29se COBs (Qty: 20) from Future Electronics for about 21.50. May be cheaper for the quantity you're looking for.
 
sixstring

sixstring

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Wouldn't that light be inferior? 1127µmols/s compared to 1762µmols/s. I appreciate the help. Vero 29s don't look too bad but I'm actually getting the cree for $27.50/piece so wouldn't be saving a substantial amount of money with vero.
thats a good price on the crees,you might consider getting all the parts from kingbright.i dont think the heatsink you linked will work,too small.maybe you picked the wrong one idk.you need something around 130mm wide x 70 to 80mm tall.kingbright and rapidled have what you want.its the most important part to the life of the system. i used 140mm x 80mm for most of my setups,even the ones im running at 35w per cob.some of my setups use the square 125mm x 125mm splayed fin heatsinks from northern grow lights which imo are the best heatsinks money can buy. try contacting robincnn @ hlg and ask him to quote you heatsinks in the 133mm x 70mm ,140mm x 80, and the 125mm x 125mm sstx but if your not in the states just go with jerry at kingbright( or vicky song)
 
h4ppyf4rmer

h4ppyf4rmer

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they aint but 10 or 12 inches from the plants,so im seeing better bud development down by the soil then i ever did with hid.

I am also seeing good bud development a lot lower on the plant then I did on my last run...although, my lighting was far inferior on my last run than what I have now.
 
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cccmints

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I got my vero29se COBs (Qty: 20) from Future Electronics for about 21.50. May be cheaper for the quantity you're looking for.
I got quoted at the same price. Using those would save me nearly $1k. Based on the data sheets, the Vero 29s have a higher lumen output per watt than the CXB3590s too.

CXB3590 CD @ 36V x 2.4A = 86.4/watt || 13,237 lm @ 25C || 153.20 lm/Watt

Vero 29 BXRC-35E10K0-C-7 = 37.6V x 2.1A = 78.96/Watt || 159.52 lm/Watt

Leaning towards the Veros now.

thats a good price on the crees,you might consider getting all the parts from kingbright.i dont think the heatsink you linked will work,too small.maybe you picked the wrong one idk.you need something around 130mm wide x 70 to 80mm tall.kingbright and rapidled have what you want.its the most important part to the life of the system. i used 140mm x 80mm for most of my setups,even the ones im running at 35w per cob.some of my setups use the square 125mm x 125mm splayed fin heatsinks from northern grow lights which imo are the best heatsinks money can buy. try contacting robincnn @ hlg and ask him to quote you heatsinks in the 133mm x 70mm ,140mm x 80, and the 125mm x 125mm sstx but if your not in the states just go with jerry at kingbright( or vicky song)
Yeah, I was burnt out towards the end of putting that list together and I was pretty sure I had the heat sink completely wrong lol...Thank-you for sorting that out. What do you think about the data sheets for cxb3590 and vero 29 showing the vero having greater lumen output? I'd like to save $1k if possible. I just sent robin a message on RIU, he seems to still be active there. Jerry is who I got the cree price from btw.
 
sixstring

sixstring

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I got quoted at the same price. Using those would save me nearly $1k. Based on the data sheets, the Vero 29s have a higher lumen output per watt than the CXB3590s too.

CXB3590 CD @ 36V x 2.4A = 86.4/watt || 13,237 lm @ 25C || 153.20 lm/Watt

Vero 29 BXRC-35E10K0-C-7 = 37.6V x 2.1A = 78.96/Watt || 159.52 lm/Watt

Leaning towards the Veros now.

Yeah, I was burnt out towards the end of putting that list together and I was pretty sure I had the heat sink completely wrong lol...Thank-you for sorting that out. What do you think about the data sheets for cxb3590 and vero 29 showing the vero having greater lumen output? I'd like to save $1k if possible. I just sent robin a message on RIU, he seems to still be active there. Jerry is who I got the cree price from btw.

Well theres alot to consider there.data sheets and real world tests are pretty close but not spot on.the vero is def a better performer at higher amps like 2.0 and above.where the cree shines is at low power like below 50w and 35w is the sweet spot .but at 50w cree vero shitizen are all super close in lpw.the problem with vero is they are not 34 to 36 v they are 37 to 39v so matching drivers can be tricky.at 50w with the vero i would use 38v for your math and find a driver that has a few spare volts and they will light up full power.i built a 5 cob bar with vero just as i have done many times with cree and when i plugged it in it lite up fine but i was like this aint as bright as im used to.so i checked with a killawatt and it was only pulling 100w from the wall and should have been 200+w so what happens is the driver goes into limp mode and limits current so they will light up but nowhere near full power.i swapped for a bigger driver and boom all good and bright as fuck.
Also if you plan to use these for flower only i would conside mixing 3000k and 3500k 50/50 like 1 bar/fixture 3000k and 1 3500k.personally i like the 2700k cree cob best even though im giving up some lumens they flower awesomely :) i also have bars with just 3500k and some with mixed 3000k and 3500k every other cob and they all do great
I just like a lil more stretch with my plants like hps gives which is 2100k and moving to 3500k just kept my plants too damn short and compact.3500k is great for full cycle though so theres that lol.
 
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cccmints

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Well theres alot to consider there.data sheets and real world tests are pretty close but not spot on.the vero is def a better performer at higher amps like 2.0 and above.where the cree shines is at low power like below 50w and 35w is the sweet spot .but at 50w cree vero shitizen are all super close in lpw.the problem with vero is they are not 34 to 36 v they are 37 to 39v so matching drivers can be tricky.at 50w with the vero i would use 38v for your math and find a driver that has a few spare volts and they will light up full power.i built a 5 cob bar with vero just as i have done many times with cree and when i plugged it in it lite up fine but i was like this aint as bright as im used to.so i checked with a killawatt and it was only pulling 100w from the wall and should have been 200+w so what happens is the driver goes into limp mode and limits current so they will light up but nowhere near full power.i swapped for a bigger driver and boom all good and bright as fuck.
Also if you plan to use these for flower only i would conside mixing 3000k and 3500k 50/50 like 1 bar/fixture 3000k and 1 3500k.personally i like the 2700k cree cob best even though im giving up some lumens they flower awesomely :) i also have bars with just 3500k and some with mixed 3000k and 3500k every other cob and they all do great
I just like a lil more stretch with my plants like hps gives which is 2100k and moving to 3500k just kept my plants too damn short and compact.3500k is great for full cycle though so theres that lol.
Awesome...All really good information. I've decided to go with the vero 29 3500k as I want to use this system for the full cycle (at first at-least).

Here's what I've got now.

(40x ) 48" (4ft) Length 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/8" Aluminum Angle
https://www.metals4uonline.com/aluminum-angle-6061-3_4thsx3_4thsx1_8th
$770 - 10 Lights

(150x)
FN14074_STELLA-HB LED Reflector for Vero 29
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...ml?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.2.3c93b095kOUvNP
$1,125 - 10 Lights

(10x) 100k OHM Linear Taper Rotary Potentiometer

$40 - 10 Lights

(30x) HLG-320H-C1400B
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...pm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.3c93b095eF4QJN&s=p
$1,860 - 10 Lights

(150x) 125mm Splayed Pin Fin Heatsink for Vero 29
*Cannot share link to product out of respect for the privacy of the merchant
$2,550 - 10 Lights

(150x) COB Vero 29 3500k 38V
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...ml?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2f898c12BsddEE
$3,225 - 10 Lights

Total = $9,565 or $956.5/fixture

This would be running (15) Vero 29s @ 38v @ 1.3a for 49.4w/COB or 741w/fixture for a total of 7,410w in the room giving 1,170.52 PPFD. While that is lower than the advertised 1,397 PPFD of HPS, I'm taking into consideration the total light coverage difference, elimination of hot spots, dead zones, 28+% PPFD degradation (1005.84) before my 3.5 month cycle even finishes, eliminating the need to veg with different lights in a different room/transplant my plants, cost to replace bulbs after each cycle, energy savings, lessened cooling requirements, higher quality bud, and the fact that I can keep my LEDs 10-12" above the plants without issue.

I'd save roughly $112/month less on electricity and would be able to stick with the 3 ton mini split instead of upgrading to a 3.5 ton along with removing the 2 inline fans saving me $1,600. So, all in all, the initial cost to use this build as my lighting system would be $7,965.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...F9IZC&linkId=8d9e07361dd364e87f0e393633c0cc33
 
h4ppyf4rmer

h4ppyf4rmer

863
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This would be running (15) Vero 29s @ 38v @ 1.3a for 49.4w/COB

Vero29 3500k 80CRI (BXRC-35E10K0-D-7X) has a Forward Voltage (Vf) of 37.2V running at 1400ma which gives a wattage of 52.08W per COB

Those drivers will only run 6 of those COBs and it's iffy if they will run 3. Are you thinking that you will run 3 drivers per frame and running 5 COBs per driver?

I see you keep saying 1.3 amps, those drivers put out 1.4 amps or am I missing something. I have 3 of them running 18 vero29SE COBs

The ones I bought were the Vero29SE 3000k CRI90 (BXRC-30G10K0-D-7x-SE) for blooming only. The forward voltage on those are 36.2V

If you are putting them together, I suggest buying the SE version, really makes wiring them very easy and you won't need to buy the little push on connector. Just a thought
 
sixstring

sixstring

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Just be careful with fake alibaba merchants,i just read somewhere how someone sent the money and got scammed.if it aint jerry @ kingbright i would be very leary in any dealings on the relctors you linked.looks like ya got a smokin deal on the heatsinks,nice work. Can someone link the data sheet on that mw driver im not home now.but i wanted to check the numbers as happy said those vero will pull close to 38v and put out slightly over 50w each if im not mistaken.
 
h4ppyf4rmer

h4ppyf4rmer

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and if you're having problems getting the BXRC-35E10K0-D-7X, I just looked them up on Future Electronics, they are 21.22 each, but I think there is a shipping cost, I can't remember.
 
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cccmints

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Vero29 3500k 80CRI (BXRC-35E10K0-D-7X) has a Forward Voltage (Vf) of 37.2V running at 1400ma which gives a wattage of 52.08W per COB

Those drivers will only run 6 of those COBs and it's iffy if they will run 3. Are you thinking that you will run 3 drivers per frame and running 5 COBs per driver?

I see you keep saying 1.3 amps, those drivers put out 1.4 amps or am I missing something. I have 3 of them running 18 vero29SE COBs

The ones I bought were the Vero29SE 3000k CRI90 (BXRC-30G10K0-D-7x-SE) for blooming only. The forward voltage on those are 36.2V

If you are putting them together, I suggest buying the SE version, really makes wiring them very easy and you won't need to buy the little push on connector. Just a thought
This just goes to show how new I am to this game. I read something somewhere which led me to believe you could tune the amperage and that 1.4 was simply the max. That is exactly what I was thinking; 3 drivers per frame with 5 cobs. I will look into the SE models, thanks for the tip.

Just be careful with fake alibaba merchants,i just read somewhere how someone sent the money and got scammed.if it aint jerry @ kingbright i would be very leary in any dealings on the relctors you linked.looks like ya got a smokin deal on the heatsinks,nice work. Can someone link the data sheet on that mw driver im not home now.but i wanted to check the numbers as happy said those vero will pull close to 38v and put out slightly over 50w each if im not mistaken.
I hear you. Those links are really just to get a general idea for how much this will cost and which products I'm looking to use. Honestly, I won't even buy from anyone other than Jerry on alibaba. I've heard great things about him across a few different platforms and read a big thread @ RIU all about people testing his diodes and comparing the findings to data released by the manufacturers of the test subjects. Here's the data sheet:

and if you're having problems getting the BXRC-35E10K0-D-7X, I just looked them up on Future Electronics, they are 21.22 each, but I think there is a shipping cost, I can't remember.
BXRC-35E10K0-D-7X runs @ 2.1a/38.7v for $21.22 on FE and the SE version is also 2.1a @ 37.6v for $21.87 ea.

Sadly...the shipping cost is a deal breaker. I can't believe they want 9 DOLLARS to send me my precious lights.
 
sixstring

sixstring

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so yeah the vero 29 se run @ 1400ma you could actually power 6 cobs per driver with this driver you linked.so thats something to consider.also theres tons of places that carry the vero cobs that wont charge 9 bucks per cob for shipping.have you looked at digikey yet?
 
h4ppyf4rmer

h4ppyf4rmer

863
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Sadly...the shipping cost is a deal breaker. I can't believe they want 9 DOLLARS to send me my precious lights.

so yeah the vero 29 se run @ 1400ma you could actually power 6 cobs per driver with this driver you linked.so thats something to consider.also theres tons of places that carry the vero cobs that wont charge 9 bucks per cob for shipping.have you looked at digikey yet?

When I bought from Future Electronics, it was not "$9 per cob" for shipping, it was $9 for the whole shipment of the 20 COBs just to clarify.
 
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cccmints

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so yeah the vero 29 se run @ 1400ma you could actually power 6 cobs per driver with this driver you linked.so thats something to consider.also theres tons of places that carry the vero cobs that wont charge 9 bucks per cob for shipping.have you looked at digikey yet?
So how exactly does driving them work? From what I understand, you can drive the COBs "hard" or "soft", meaning if the FV is 37.2 and the driver is 1400a I have to run them at 1400a but can alter the FV to hone in on the specific wattage I want to drive the COBs? Or do I need to run 37.2 @ 1400a?
When I bought from Future Electronics, it was not "$9 per cob" for shipping, it was $9 for the whole shipment of the 20 COBs just to clarify.
I know lol I was making a joke I was expecting shipping to be more expensive. It is $9 for the whole shipment.
 
h4ppyf4rmer

h4ppyf4rmer

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HLG-320H-C1400B
this driver will put out a constant current of 1400ma once you are within the forward voltage range of 114V ~ 229V.
This is why this driver will not run just one COB because you have not reached the minimum accumulative voltages of the COBs. These drivers are dimmable which I believe works by the drivers reducing the constant current as you reduce the resistance of the potentiometer. If you leave the dimmer leads on the driver open (max resistance), the driver will give the full 1.4a

I hope I described that clearly, I don't what to confuse anyone };-)
 
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cccmints

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this driver will put out a constant current of 1400ma once you are within the forward voltage range of 114V ~ 229V.
This is why this driver will not run just one COB because you have not reached the minimum accumulative voltages of the COBs. These drivers are dimmable which I believe works by the drivers reducing the constant current as you reduce the resistance of the potentiometer. If you leave the dimmer leads on the driver open (max resistance), the driver will give the full 1.4a

I hope I described that clearly, I don't what to confuse anyone };-)
Ok, that makes sense. Side question, this driver requires you to purchase a separate potentiometer yeah? Or is it built in? And also, does this mean the FV of the COB is adjustable or do you need to run it at a certain fixed FV depending on model?
 
h4ppyf4rmer

h4ppyf4rmer

863
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Ok, that makes sense. Side question, this driver requires you to purchase a separate potentiometer yeah? Or is it built in? And also, does this mean the FV of the COB is adjustable or do you need to run it at a certain fixed FV depending on model?

yes, you need to buy a separate potentiometer with the driver you specified, your list has ten of them. You can gang each Frame (three drivers) on one potentiometer, but I believe you need a different resistance value to do it. The 0 to 100K pot is for one driver only. I think @sixstring has ganged up drivers on one pot.

The forward voltage rating is fixed on these COBs. The Vero29 chips do have a variation on the forward voltage depending on the constant current driver you want to use, unlike the Cree COBs. For instance:

BXRC-35E10K0-L-2 (Vero29 3500k 80CRI)
drive current forward voltage
500ma 35.1v
700ma 35.6v
1050ma 36.4v
2100ma 38.0v
2800ma 39.0v
3150ma 39.5v
4200ma 40.4v

BXRC-35E10K0-D-7X-S (Vero29SE 3500k 80CRI)
drive current forward voltage
1050ma 35.4v
1400ma 36.2v
2100ma 37.6v
3150ma 39.5v
4200ma 41.2v

These values are right from the Bridgelux datasheets

you do know that using a constant current driver, you will need to wire the COBs in series, not parallel.
if you wanted to wire them in parallel, you would use a constant voltage driver instead.
 
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cccmints

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yes, you need to buy a separate potentiometer with the driver you specified, your list has ten of them. You can gang each Frame (three drivers) on one potentiometer, but I believe you need a different resistance value to do it. The 0 to 100K pot is for one driver only. I think @sixstring has ganged up drivers on one pot.

The forward voltage rating is fixed on these COBs. The Vero29 chips do have a variation on the forward voltage depending on the constant current driver you want to use, unlike the Cree COBs. For instance:

BXRC-35E10K0-L-2 (Vero29 3500k 80CRI)
drive current forward voltage
500ma 35.1v
700ma 35.6v
1050ma 36.4v
2100ma 38.0v
2800ma 39.0v
3150ma 39.5v
4200ma 40.4v

BXRC-35E10K0-D-7X-S (Vero29SE 3500k 80CRI)
drive current forward voltage
1050ma 35.4v
1400ma 36.2v
2100ma 37.6v
3150ma 39.5v
4200ma 41.2v

These values are right from the Bridgelux datasheets

you do know that using a constant current driver, you will need to wire the COBs in series, not parallel.
if you wanted to wire them in parallel, you would use a constant voltage driver instead.
It looks like not all the meanwell drivers have dimming capability like I previously thought. I think I need a 25k OHM potentiometer with a 10k resistor according to SupraSPL on another forum. Also need to switch my driver to a HVGC-320-1400B. It seems constant current drivers are the best option if you want to use dimming in your system so I'll be wiring the COBs in a series. With the fixed forward voltage on Vero29 SE I'll be at 1.4a * 36.2v = 50.68w x 760.2w/fixture = 7,602w for the room.

Thanks for the detailed post @h4ppyf4rmer
 
h4ppyf4rmer

h4ppyf4rmer

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Also need to switch my driver to a HVGC-320-1400B

why? as I see it, the only difference between the HVGC-320-1400B and the HLG-320H-C1400B is the HVGC-320-1400B allows for higher input voltages, other than that, they are the same (except the cost).

what is your planned input voltage? I'm running HLG-320H-C1400B with an input voltage of 240V. I also attached a 0-100K potentiometer to the dimmer leads which works well. I just don't know how to gang three drivers on one potentiometer, I know sixstring has done it.

It looks like not all the meanwell drivers have dimming capability
they are both dimmable, the "B" on the end of the part numbers mean they have external dimmer capabilities.
 
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