Pursuing first hydro grow with RDWC, help a noob.

[threatco]

okay, i was looking at those spider farms but aquaman suggested CMH lights at the end of the day they might come out to the same price or close to it. i have another thread on lights i was looking at, see here mate: https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/need-help-lighting-5x7-room-with-6-plant-rdwc.113691/#post-2431552

would i need two of those SF-2000 boards for my situation?

yeah good idea. will see how it goes, but deeper in i may have to add the vent in door.

Aquaman is good but I might try to sway him still. I agree with the concept of "unlimited budget, knowledge, and ability" that CMH can produce amazing results. But I feel you then have to revolve the grow around the CMH heat issue. It is possible, and if you achieve it the results could be phenomenal. But for first grow? I hesitate to recommend that. Unless you felt handling the HVAC was no prob.



How many SF-2000s? They are 240w each. Your 5x7 area is 35 sq ft. 8 of these lights get you 1920 watts. 1920 / 35 sq feet = 55 watts per sq foot. This is on the high end of the 40-60 w/sqft recommendation.

They are about half the price on Alibaba from various companies. Called "Quantum board style" Maybe less if DIY

Water temp guide, you will find a lot of "sweet spots" on grow articles. The science behind it is here.

Too hot is not enough dissolved oxygen, and more microbial growth which is not always bad, usually just more work to clean. But could be bad if it leads to Pythium Root Rot.

But there is an upside too, more nutrient uptake is possible at higher temps. So in theory you want to make the water as hot as you can as long as you can provide "enough" oxygen somehow. "flood drain or a lot of airstone power". Commercial growers keep it low to keep maintainance cleaning to a minimum.

My noob guestimate is 18-27 is the safe range. 18 and lower plants start to get stunted or stressed, 27 or higher I think it becomes too hard to oxygenate or just not worth pushing it. All in celcius.

 

[jaypru369]

Yeah generally you move air in the space and/or use AC. Only thing to consider is ceiling height and plant height when using them. You are already going to lose some height with buckets and DWC is going to explode so all going to depend on how you plan to grow them and the approach. My 2 630's in a 4x8 can pull at least 3 lbs without even going tryhard mode most of the time, depending on the strain, with small plants because of height restriction of then tent and table vs my rooms. I will say def couldn't have 4 - 315's in that space without A/C tho.

the ceiling height it tall same as home ceiling. not sure what you mean by approach but will def top, train, and use the net system to spread out, did this with soil. this is first time with hydro but have my exper unc coming out to help so hopefully will mitigate issues off the bat.

at this point i am undecided on which route to take with the lights, i was advised CMH would be great but at this point im hearing its going to be hot and will need more equip and effort to control temps enviroment, i will start soon and summers here are avg 75 degrees and 40-80% humidity, so im starting to lean towards leds.

 

[jaypru369]

Aquaman is good but I might try to sway him still. I agree with the concept of "unlimited budget, knowledge, and ability" that CMH can produce amazing results. But I feel you then have to revolve the grow around the CMH heat issue. It is possible, and if you achieve it the results could be phenomenal. But for first grow? I hesitate to recommend that. Unless you felt handling the HVAC was no prob.



How many SF-2000s? They are 240w each. Your 5x7 area is 35 sq ft. 8 of these lights get you 1920 watts. 1920 / 35 sq feet = 55 watts per sq foot. This is on the high end of the 40-60 w/sqft recommendation.

They are about half the price on Alibaba from various companies. Called "Quantum board style" Maybe less if DIY

Water temp guide, you will find a lot of "sweet spots" on grow articles. The science behind it is here.

View attachment 983966

Too hot is not enough dissolved oxygen, and more microbial growth which is not always bad, usually just more work to clean. But could be bad if it leads to Pythium Root Rot.

But there is an upside too, more nutrient uptake is possible at higher temps. So in theory you want to make the water as hot as you can as long as you can provide "enough" oxygen somehow. "flood drain or a lot of airstone power". Commercial growers keep it low to keep maintainance cleaning to a minimum.

My noob guestimate is 18-27 is the safe range. 18 and lower plants start to get stunted or stressed, 27 or higher I think it becomes too hard to oxygenate or just not worth pushing it. All in celcius.

thank you for all this info and insight. so def not going to buy 8 of those of amazon. so if i get them off alibaba do i have to build them myself? is there any specifics to help steer me into buying thebetter quality lights from alibaba?

 

[Aqua Man]

I agree with LED. But for the space and budget you gave it won't happen. But going led will save you in other areas. That space would definitely benefit from LED but it will cost you

 

[cemchris]

the ceiling height it tall same as home ceiling. not sure what you mean by approach but will def top, train, and use the net system to spread out, did this with soil. this is first time with hydro but have my exper unc coming out to help so hopefully will mitigate issues off the bat.

at this point i am undecided on which route to take with the lights, i was advised CMH would be great but at this point im hearing its going to be hot and will need more equip and effort to control temps enviroment, i will start soon and summers here are avg 75 degrees and 40-80% humidity, so im starting to lean towards leds.

It's all going to be about price of equipment and what you want to invest. By approach I mean personal vs production. When you get into production side of using LED they aren't usually cheaper and don't save you a ton on money from the wall at that point.

 

[jaypru369]

I agree with LED. But for the space and budget you gave it won't happen. But going led will save you in other areas. That space would definitely benefit from LED but it will cost you

How would two of these be in my room? https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.5fff554auDLc8K

also confused on which ones are better, the first one is a diff style, does this matter? is the top one a complete setup and this bottom one is DIY?

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

 

[jaypru369]

How would two of these be in my room? https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.5fff554auDLc8K

also confused on which ones are better, the first one is a diff style, does this matter? is the top one a complete setup and this bottom one is DIY?

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

this one says is a bit higher is wats per light https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.5fff554auDLc8K

maybe be two of these?

 

[Aqua Man]

I can't see the app but even 30w sqft will do you well with LED.

 

[threatco]

thank you for all this info and insight. so def not going to buy 8 of those of amazon. so if i get them off alibaba do i have to build them myself? is there any specifics to help steer me into buying thebetter quality lights from alibaba?

They do sell them prebuilt.

I see a lot of folks get bogged down in the minutia of options and features they can come with.

I will tell you what I went with and why. But at the end of the day, most of the little details don't matter much.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

In order of relative importance.

Should have Meanwell driver and Samsung mid-power LEDs. This is what makes it an "SF-2000" copy cat.

Should have some 660 nm (red) diodes. My research tells me all white is not enough for cannabis buds.

It should also have some UV and IR diodes. The benefits of these can be debated, but I think they are important.

There should be a dimmer for the white lights, (separate from a screw underneath the driver like some come with.

There should be an on/off switch for the 600/UV/IR diodes, so you don't waste their lifespan and electricity using them before flowering.

The 600/UV/IR diodes can be Epistar or Cree. Cree cost more, are a bit bright and last longer. My opinion is the huge cost difference is not worth it. Go with Epistar.

You should get lm301b type white diodes instead of lm301h. They are the same thing physically, the lm301h ones just cost more because they are sold with spec sheets designed for the horticulture market.

The white light color should be 3500k. I went with a mix of 3000k and 4000k but it does not really matter. A lower number is bluer and better for veg. Flower only folks might go all 4000k. Most just go 3500k. Can't stress enough how little difference this makes.

What company/brand to go with. I went with Yuanhui and would recommend them. Abby who you would talk to is responsive and good at customer service. I think Kingbrite and Meijiu are more popular. But Yuanhui had what I needed exactly listed and no regrets. I think any of them will be good as long as you are specific in what you ask for. (You chat to place orders on Alibaba)

A few threads worth skimming to get an idea of the companies

Chinese LED grow light

Hey everyone I was recently recommended by a pier on a discord forum to look into a SF-2000 copycat on alibaba. I was wondering if anyone has any information or experience with this website or anything of that nature. The guy I was talking with bought 10 of these lights and his plants are...

www.thcfarmer.com

Kingbrite review

I contacted Kingbrite a few days ago and have been discussing options. I spent a long time looking for in depth reviews of the company and found little, in the way of descriptions of the process and long term in depth reviews. This will be my documentation of the process from start to finish...

www.thcfarmer.com

People looking into this often come back with the question. "What about rails instead of boards?"

I don't know for sure, but I think they cost more for the same amount of light. People use them to get better light distribution. I don't find them beneficial enough in most indoor applications to warrant the cost.

 

[Aqua Man]

They do sell them prebuilt.

I see a lot of folks get bogged down in the minutia of options and features they can come with.

I will tell you what I went with and why. But at the end of the day, most of the little details don't matter much.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

View attachment 983975

In order of relative importance.

Should have Meanwell driver and Samsung mid-power LEDs. This is what makes it an "SF-2000" copy cat.

Should have some 660 nm (red) diodes. My research tells me all white is not enough for cannabis buds.

It should also have some UV and IR diodes. The benefits of these can be debated, but I think they are important.

There should be a dimmer for the white lights, (separate from a screw underneath the driver like some come with.

There should be an on/off switch for the 600/UV/IR diodes, so you don't waste their lifespan and electricity using them before flowering.

You should get lm301b type white diodes instead of lm301h. They are the same thing physically, the lm301h ones just cost more because they are sold with spec sheets designed for the horticulture market.

The white light color should be 3500k. I went with a mix of 3000k and 4000k but it does not really matter. A lower number is bluer and better for veg. Flower only folks might go all 4000k. Most just go 3500k. Can't stress enough how little difference this makes.

What company/brand to go with. I went with Yuanhui and would recommend them. Abby who you would talk to is responsive and good at customer service. I think Kingbrite and Meiju are more popular. But Yuanhui had what I needed exactly listed and no regrets. I think any of them will be good as long as you are specific in what you ask for. (You chat to place orders on Alibaba)

A few threads worth skimming to get an idea of the companies

Chinese LED grow light

Hey everyone I was recently recommended by a pier on a discord forum to look into a SF-2000 copycat on alibaba. I was wondering if anyone has any information or experience with this website or anything of that nature. The guy I was talking with bought 10 of these lights and his plants are...

www.thcfarmer.com

Kingbrite review

I contacted Kingbrite a few days ago and have been discussing options. I spent a long time looking for in depth reviews of the company and found little, in the way of descriptions of the process and long term in depth reviews. This will be my documentation of the process from start to finish...

www.thcfarmer.com

Agree. Except the UV diodes are just not there yet with led. Not worth the money yet. UVA is meh and UVB is almost non existent. If adding UV I would suggest florescent.

 

[Aqua Man]

You will want about 1000w of led with good light spread if you go that route. I'm going to estimate about $1000

 

[threatco]

Agree. Except the UV diodes are just not there yet with led. Not worth the money yet. UVA is meh and UVB is almost non existent. If adding UV I would suggest florescent.

I agree. I never have never seen IR offered without UV, but you could probably request it. I like to think some UV is better none.

On a relative scale

512 pcs Samsung lm301B SK leds+24pcs Epistar 660nm+4pcs UV+4pcs IR

4 out of 544 total "slots" on the whole board that could be used for another diode is not a huge opportunity cost loss.

 

[jaypru369]

They do sell them prebuilt.

I see a lot of folks get bogged down in the minutia of options and features they can come with.

I will tell you what I went with and why. But at the end of the day, most of the little details don't matter much.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

View attachment 983975

In order of relative importance.

Should have Meanwell driver and Samsung mid-power LEDs. This is what makes it an "SF-2000" copy cat.

Should have some 660 nm (red) diodes. My research tells me all white is not enough for cannabis buds.

It should also have some UV and IR diodes. The benefits of these can be debated, but I think they are important.

There should be a dimmer for the white lights, (separate from a screw underneath the driver like some come with.

There should be an on/off switch for the 600/UV/IR diodes, so you don't waste their lifespan and electricity using them before flowering.

You should get lm301b type white diodes instead of lm301h. They are the same thing physically, the lm301h ones just cost more because they are sold with spec sheets designed for the horticulture market.

The white light color should be 3500k. I went with a mix of 3000k and 4000k but it does not really matter. A lower number is bluer and better for veg. Flower only folks might go all 4000k. Most just go 3500k. Can't stress enough how little difference this makes.

What company/brand to go with. I went with Yuanhui and would recommend them. Abby who you would talk to is responsive and good at customer service. I think Kingbrite and Meiju are more popular. But Yuanhui had what I needed exactly listed and no regrets. I think any of them will be good as long as you are specific in what you ask for. (You chat to place orders on Alibaba)

A few threads worth skimming to get an idea of the companies

Chinese LED grow light

Hey everyone I was recently recommended by a pier on a discord forum to look into a SF-2000 copycat on alibaba. I was wondering if anyone has any information or experience with this website or anything of that nature. The guy I was talking with bought 10 of these lights and his plants are...

www.thcfarmer.com

Kingbrite review

I contacted Kingbrite a few days ago and have been discussing options. I spent a long time looking for in depth reviews of the company and found little, in the way of descriptions of the process and long term in depth reviews. This will be my documentation of the process from start to finish...

www.thcfarmer.com

People looking into this often come back with the question. "What about rails instead of boards?"

I don't know for sure, but I think they cost more for the same amount of light. People use them to get better light distribution. I don't find them beneficial enough in most indoor applications to warrant the cost.

i have an ecom bus and i am very familiar with alibaba so not worried about that. but okay thanks for this really helps make a decision faster. all the ones im looking at have all these features. some have an app and controlers wifi which is cool, i think ill invest more and get LEDs here to just be done with and be good for a while. they usualy have 3-5 yr warranty which is plenty to me.

so far im thinking,

maybe 3X of these (480 true watt one- 100 a piece i guess)

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

or

2x of these which would be less than 40 watt/sqft
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.5fff554auDLc8K

 

[jaypru369]

You will want about 1000w of led with good light spread if you go that route. I'm going to estimate about $1000

im seeing options of 385 per 700 watt power lights

 

[Aqua Man]

I agree. I never have never seen IR offered without UV, but you could probably request it. I like to think some made UV is better none.

On a relative scale

512 pcs Samsung lm301B SK leds+24pcs Epistar 660nm+4pcs UV+4pcs IR

4 out of 544 total "slots" on the whole board that could be used for another diode is not a huge opportunity cost loss.

Also would kick the epistar to the curb. No point using crap with quality Samsung diodes.. Osram or cree for IR IMO.

 

[Aqua Man]

im seeing options of 385 per 700 watt power lights

2 of those would be more than enough and would kill it for ya. Add taxes and shipping about $1000 or a bit more

 

[jaypru369]

I agree. I never have never seen IR offered without UV, but you could probably request it. I like to think some UV is better none.

On a relative scale

512 pcs Samsung lm301B SK leds+24pcs Epistar 660nm+4pcs UV+4pcs IR

4 out of 544 total "slots" on the whole board that could be used for another diode is not a huge opportunity cost loss.

does that mean its not a huge investment that wont pay off in the near futurre?

 

[jaypru369]

2 of those would be more than enough and would kill it for ya. Add taxes and shipping about $1000 or a bit more

i can ship things cheaper, i have a person in china who ships out my inventory for me, so i can have it sent to her and shipped cheaper.

 

[jaypru369]

w

Also would kick the epistar to the curb. No point using crap with quality Samsung diodes.. Osram or cree for IR IMO.

sorry what is this in reference too?

 

[Aqua Man]

w

sorry what is this in reference too?

Diodes used by the manufacturer. They have options. Samsung are good epistar are cheap and know to have some issues. So for the infrared diodes Osram or cree are a better option.

All grow equipment pays itself off usually in the first grow. I spent 3k on a 4x4 and after paying everything off I still had money and product