What helps makes a special strain.

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Frankster

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well i would flush her out some. Take readings and then feed a complete balanced fertilizer so i know she has everything she needs.

the striping on the leaves is showing a lot of nutrient stress.
Thanks man, I will do.
 
Dirtbag

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My experience with seeds is much different. I have consistently grown 4-8 oz hybrids that sold out immediately from any seed i have planted for years. Sure some came out better or worse but that is mostly my doing. A lot of times i took a late flower cut and tried again with way better results if i was unhappy.

But i have stuck to old companies that had the best plants imo. No “cookies” or “cakes” or “fruitcake”. I think that is where breeders went awry.

Some new strains taste real good but still give a flat unhappy high. I grabbed a sweet strain from HSC. Caramel cream. Curious of it has any depth.

I think you may have been spoiled with high quality genetics for too long


can you give an example of a shit strain?

An example? Anything ive cracked from several breeders lately. It either blows me away or it doesnt, and most dont. If its not exceptional, i dont keep it.

Ive sprouted seeds from a dozen seed companies in the lst 5 years and kept less than 3 plants. Only ones ive kept that i cracked myself were dragon cheese, forbidden zkittlez and a barneys gmfarm blue cheese. Dragonsflame has been the best breeder ive bought from in a while.
 
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gorillaglueaaron

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If I took 2 clones from the same plant, I could grow one to be good and one to be bad but if I took 2 genetics and put them in the same environment, I don't think they would be too different.
 
linde

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I agree with this. Its proof of how important environment is. We talk of genetics. Thats genotype. But phenotype is created by our personal conditions.
genetics is genotype AND phenotype. genotype is indica vs sativa. phenotype is short vs tall, lemon vs diesel, purple vs green. bottom line is your dope will only be as good as the genetics you are using. a good light or environment will not make shit worn out genetics any good. shit genetics will always be shit genetics no matter what you try and do to it. period.
 
MIMedGrower

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genetics is genotype AND phenotype. genotype is indica vs sativa. phenotype is short vs tall, lemon vs diesel, purple vs green. bottom line is your dope will only be as good as the genetics you are using. a good light or environment will not make shit worn out genetics any good. shit genetics will always be shit genetics no matter what you try and do to it. period.



i still have not grown any real bad genetics. Seeds from $20 a pack to$100 a pack have all been fine. I even usually only germinate one at a time in my system. I have to count on that seed and have never felt let down by the breeder. I always assume grower or environmental error.

Has worked for me almost 7 years perpetually with no shut down time til the root aphid infestation. And i still dont have any bad buds just less of them.


that is not to say that one genetic may be much better than another. But personal choice gets in that.
 
Dirtbag

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i still have not grown any real bad genetics. Seeds from $20 a pack to$100 a pack have all been fine. I even usually only germinate one at a time in my system. I have to count on that seed and have never felt let down by the breeder. I always assume grower or environmental error.

Has worked for me almost 7 years perpetually with no shut down time til the root aphid infestation. And i still dont have any bad buds just less of them.


that is not to say that one genetic may be much better than another. But personal choice gets in that.

Didnt you grow mostly seeds from the same breeder, Ch9 the first 5 years though? Im just saying, in 20 years of cracking seeds from a pile of breeders, very few have been what i consider keeper genetics.
 
linde

linde

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i still have not grown any real bad genetics. Seeds from $20 a pack to$100 a pack have all been fine. I even usually only germinate one at a time in my system. I have to count on that seed and have never felt let down by the breeder. I always assume grower or environmental error.

Has worked for me almost 7 years perpetually with no shut down time til the root aphid infestation. And i still dont have any bad buds just less of them.


that is not to say that one genetic may be much better than another. But personal choice gets in that.
I've grown all kinds of shit genetics over the years. it's a bummer but it happens. I've made crosses that have turned out shit too. it's just the nature of the beast. it happens.
 
Frankster

Frankster

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Didnt you grow mostly seeds from the same breeder, Ch9 the first 5 years though? Im just saying, in 20 years of cracking seeds from a pile of breeders, very few have been what i consider keeper genetics.

Yea, I get what your saying there. Recently it's been more like probably 50% lately, but it took awhile for me to start finding creative ways to get my hands on the better genetics. TBH, I've had more luck finding, locating bag seeds from various friends of mine, or buying an ounce of shake here or there, because it's a really great strain, and I can see a few seeds in the bottoms.

I don't know about anywhere else in the country, but when I walk into a shop here, many of the strains are "supposed" to be like 25-30% THC or more, I'm seeing quite a bit of that these days, and some of the one's that I find that much lower than that, seem more impressive than I've seen in years past. (ie. something like strawberry cough, Grape Ape, and older school stuff) When Washington State went from medical to recreational, in just a few short years it transformed pretty much the entire market here. Things are much different, and you can purchase a 30% strain of quality cannabis for under $100. (used to cost $300-400) Much of the other outdoor grown stuff can be had for half that price, so there's this huge abundance of great weed in this city.

Some of the best strains I've acquired of late, have been straight from the dispensary themselves, mostly marketed at "reduced" prices. ie. $50 an ounce, that's the way (trim, or popcorn size buds often with a few seeds) I got the GG#4, a few of my best photoperiod Kushes also. I almost had wedding cake, but the one seed I acquired didn't pop. So it's hit and miss, but worth the effort, IMO.
 
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Anthem

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getting into specific effects from different strains is beyond the discussion we are having i think.

I miss the cd because it reminds me of an old flower we used to smoke in high school.

Some people like intense hit and couch lock. I like trip weed.
I believe a strain like Purple Punch, that lacked potency cannot be changed into a gem by altering the environment or by the grower. A plant can only be grown to the potential the genetics can provide. Columbia weed from the 80's got you high but you had to smoke more of it than quality strains today. So to say sure it got you high it not a reasonable comparison. Secondly, I believe @Dirtbag put it best, good genetics and a so so environment can still be dank weed.
You cannot alter the genetics inside the plant. You can only bring the plant to its ultimate maximum expression.
 
j1sonbrother

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Totally agree with Dirtbag
As a rookie , I feel like I have more say
For experienced growers, good genetics with perfect environment and perfect PPFD(or the DLI that you guys often mention), I personally think the nutrient solution only accounts for 5-10% of the factors (Good nutrient solution does produce more trichome and terpenes)and i feel that the good genetics are quite different from the same variety genetics even in the same brand. I have three plants, the same environment / lights height/nutrient solution /same amount of power and watering time, and the other two of them are dark dense buds with purple leaves. The other one is just common. It is quite different from the other two. IMO I can only buy the seeds I can buy, but I can't and can't judge whether the genes are good or bad, but for environmental factors (VPD), I have prepared AC / de/humidifier / heater machine,CO2 equipment that can meet all environmental factors(, the AC and humidifier turned on at the same time in normal weather conditions of Veg, and the dehumidifier and AC always operated almost 24 hours a day in Bloom.), and nutrient solution, I'm more inclined to use the nutrition solution of synganics in the cultivation of synthetic.

But for new growers, as long as they can start to grow, even if a plant produces 20-30g, which it is also a great success.
 
Dirtbag

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It's true, everything you say. I just I don't come across all that many "shit strains" anymore. Maybe I'm lucky. But I do notice substansal differences between one grow, and another grow of the same exact lines, so it leads me to believe it wasn't a problem with the genetics, but a problem with the environment, or with me, the grower.

But of course I'm splitting hairs again. Because I'm talking about a very small difference. Like one will get you high in say 5-7 hits, or smoke a joint, (depending on tolerance) vs the one that blows your skull cap off in a couple of hits, and your forced to set it down because you feel like your gonna "die"

If you were getting different results using CLONES of the same strain from the same mom, that would be one thing. But getting different results from seeds of the same strain is to be expected.
 
MIMedGrower

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Didnt you grow mostly seeds from the same breeder, Ch9 the first 5 years though? Im just saying, in 20 years of cracking seeds from a pile of breeders, very few have been what i consider keeper genetics.


Yeah i did say there was no comparison. But i did sell plenty of different stuff for 25 years before 7 growing. Always noticed the grow seemed more important than the strain for quality. I never chased the strain. Like i had a chemdog guy and went with less potent local hybrid guy because it was so well grown and cured. I liked it better and so did the customers. But i bet the chem was 23% thc and the local plant 15%. Better grow. Way longer legs.

as far as variety i probably grew ch9 2-1
in the beginning then pete gifted me a bunch of seeds so it became 4-1.

I had (have) seeds from trades on the rm3 forum from my second year growing. I grew a whole bunch of different plants. Lots are posted on rollitup but i was MichiganMedGrower there. Less characters available for names here.


Best plant i have grown was not ch9. It was Deadhead OG and second was a stella blue dream from an s-1 seed. But ch9 had effects, flavor and yield so consistent i stuck with them.


i also think it matters if plants are taken care of individually or as a crop and my results may be a bit skewed compared to commercial style grows of the same seeds. I touch every plant every day and feed them and water them only as each plant needs. Best results have had no short cuts. Not even watering a day sooner for convenience once during the grow.

But that may be a different discussion.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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Yeah, i dont know man. Ive still gotta say Genetics>Environment~Grower

There is a reason places like HSC do what, 10000 or 1000000 seed sift searches for genetics. Ask any breeder or watch any breeder roundtables and they all say the same thing. The top shelf genetics are a rarity.
 
MIMedGrower

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Totally agree with Dirtbag
As a rookie , I feel like I have more say
For experienced growers, good genetics with perfect environment and perfect PPFD(or the DLI that you guys often mention), I personally think the nutrient solution only accounts for 5-10% of the factors (Good nutrient solution does produce more trichome and terpenes)and i feel that the good genetics are quite different from the same variety genetics even in the same brand. I have three plants, the same environment / lights height/nutrient solution /same amount of power and watering time, and the other two of them are dark dense buds with purple leaves. The other one is just common. It is quite different from the other two. IMO I can only buy the seeds I can buy, but I can't and can't judge whether the genes are good or bad, but for environmental factors (VPD), I have prepared AC / de/humidifier / heater machine,CO2 equipment that can meet all environmental factors(, the AC and humidifier turned on at the same time in normal weather conditions of Veg, and the dehumidifier and AC always operated almost 24 hours a day in Bloom.), and nutrient solution, I'm more inclined to use the nutrition solution of synganics in the cultivation of synthetic.

But for new growers, as long as they can start to grow, even if a plant produces 20-30g, which it is also a great success.


After trying a few different fertilizer systems and ending up mostly using just a base complete nute all the way through i feel that it is how the nutes are given more than which as long as they are balanced and complete.

Get the ec just right and taper it up and down just as the plant needs and the quality goes up. Too much gives harshness and bad flavor and even effects. Too little and the plant cant produce to potential.
 
sambapati

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Couldnt disagree more. Ive seen some of the most talented growers in dialed in environments go through hit and miss with genetics over and over. Some strains suck.. some are awesome. But the amazing grower with a perfect environment will never make a shit strain good.
Given the overwhelming choices that growers have to pick from in the post-legalization era it should follow that more variation will occur in the results. There is a correlation in dog breeding; the labradoodle was bred so that allergic blind people could have a hypoallergenic dog. This answers a specific need and the breed is popular. Many people won't/can't wait for full term photoperiod plants so they select autoflowering strains. Specific strains do different things and people describe highs and smells differently. Used to be Mr Coffee and Chock full of Nuts was exotic as coffee got and now.....
 
MIMedGrower

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Yeah, i dont know man. Ive still gotta say Genetics>Environment~Grower

There is a reason places like HSC do what, 10000 or 1000000 seed sift searches for genetics. Ask any breeder or watch any breeder roundtables and they all say the same thing. The top shelf genetics are a rarity.



the breeders who picked from 100’s of plants and worked them properly all seem to have good seeds.

The breeders with many crosses and one male i avoid.

the constant strain of the month breeders are not doing their job right in my opinion.

Pick seeds from the first catagory and be happy.


weird that the most popular breeders have the most unstable stuff. The first few pages of jorje grow book taught how to buy good seeds. I have always followed the advice.

I went with ch9 because he contacted ne back and answered tons of questions to my satisfaction.

i try useful and i still havent seen the same results twice. But he has 100’s of pages of thread with happy growers.

I guess i usually avoid the bad stuff. Im not one to believe in the next best thing much.
 

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