Ebb & Flow Commercial Pod Operation

[Johnlandy420]

Hey Guys & Gals,

First time poster about to embark on commercial grow operation with 2 friends. None of us have ever grown which I know will raise some eyebrows but we have solid backgrounds. Long story short, I am the biochemistry guy and I think I have come up with a decent plan. We are seeking a license for 2000 plants and our main constraint looks to be space (which is mainly driven by our finances). I am looking to implement a pseudo perpetual SOG harvest using ebb and flow tables with a 1 week veg 8 week flower cycle. I intend to utilize 8' x 40' shipping containers with approximately 230 sq ft of usable space. I have tons of information suggesting a 1/3 veg to 2/3 flower space allocation which has driven me to conclude we need 1 clone room, 2 veg rooms, and 6 flower rooms. I intend to start with enough seeds, assuming 80% success rate, to fill my 6 flower rooms which I expect to hold 1200ish plants. From there I intend to cut 1200 clones 3 weeks prior to first harvest. I know so many things are strain specific and nothing seems conclusive about how much a hydroponic system can add to yield.

If I use a SOG technique and get 200 flowering plants in each pod, how much yield could I expect from each pod?
I know a good experienced grower looks to get 1g dry/ 1 watt of light. Does this mean my 200 plants will only ever yield 14,000gs per harvest because I have 14,000W of light?
Am I understanding this correctly? Basically I want the largest total mass of high quality buds I can produce and the plant is really just a machine to convert whatever amount of light energy I give it to my desired buds. Therefore, is SOG just the best way to get the absolute most out of the light provided?

Please feel free to leave any feedback on my plan or questions. I will be speaking with a cannabis consulting company next week.

Cheers
Matt

 

[midnightsun72]

Hey Guys & Gals,

First time poster about to embark on commercial grow operation with 2 friends. None of us have ever grown which I know will raise some eyebrows but we have solid backgrounds. Long story short, I am the biochemistry guy and I think I have come up with a decent plan. We are seeking a license for 2000 plants and our main constraint looks to be space (which is mainly driven by our finances). I am looking to implement a pseudo perpetual SOG harvest using ebb and flow tables with a 1 week veg 8 week flower cycle. I intend to utilize 8' x 40' shipping containers with approximately 230 sq ft of usable space. I have tons of information suggesting a 1/3 veg to 2/3 flower space allocation which has driven me to conclude we need 1 clone room, 2 veg rooms, and 6 flower rooms. I intend to start with enough seeds, assuming 80% success rate, to fill my 6 flower rooms which I expect to hold 1200ish plants. From there I intend to cut 1200 clones 3 weeks prior to first harvest. I know so many things are strain specific and nothing seems conclusive about how much a hydroponic system can add to yield.

If I use a SOG technique and get 200 flowering plants in each pod, how much yield could I expect from each pod?
I know a good experienced grower looks to get 1g dry/ 1 watt of light. Does this mean my 200 plants will only ever yield 14,000gs per harvest because I have 14,000W of light?
Am I understanding this correctly? Basically I want the largest total mass of high quality buds I can produce and the plant is really just a machine to convert whatever amount of light energy I give it to my desired buds. Therefore, is SOG just the best way to get the absolute most out of the light provided?

Please feel free to leave any feedback on my plan or questions. I will be speaking with a cannabis consulting company next week.

Cheers
Matt

You can only yield as much as the space and light will allow.
Also with some creative configurations (vertical gardens, Use of CO2, higher efficiency LEDs) growers can achieve as high 4g/w.
But some plants will yield more and others less. So in an operation like yours if you are popping 1200 seeds you'd want a way to catalog each plant and clone. Then pick the most vigorous, high yielding plants and do a run of those and see which you like to smoke and grow the best etc.
Also it's going to cost a fortune in equipment lighting and HVAC to grow those numbers the way you want to in a container. Due to the narrow shape of the container you will always be giving up light to your walls on every light. In larger/wider rooms less light gets wasted because of cross lighting from nearby fixtures and less losses to walls.

If I was in your shoes I'd be hiring someone who knows how to grow. No number of degrees will equip you with the knowledge to identify the plethora of problems that can occur growing indoors from pests to nutrient deficiencies. Losing time and money with failed crops especially when you are first starting out will more than pay for the experienced man.

 

[Johnlandy420]

Appreciate the feedback! No question about staff. We will be hiring a bud master and assistant upon completion of our consult and business plan submission. As a long time consumer and the most scientifically inclined, I am tasked with piecing together the grow component of the business.


4g/w sounds amazing.. Regarding cost... You are absolutely correct.. Lookin at upwards of 70k per pod but these structures were chosen for cost efficiency based on location in the northeast (Lack of phase 3 power needs plus industrial zoning restrictions). The same sealed greenhouse or warehouse space came back quoted at over 2 million plus.. This included the usage of vertical integration. I completely understand the principal of losing light to narrowness of the container but was hoping the uniform canopy of my SOG, and the focus on a single vertical kola will mitigate some of that. We will be using all the bells and whistles as you mentioned but I know there will still be a ton of variability.

Are you suggesting to run the initial 1200 seedlings through longer veg or even into flower to better select moms for cloning? I was planning on pulling 50ish moms @ day 28-35 to produce clones for needed future generations. Perhaps I should just wait and give more time to select for better viability but I thought I wanted to get rolling on clones immediately.

 

[Grapefruitroop]

Oh man dont start from seeds!!! Dont do it....use a selected clone if you can...
Seed runs are the most sketchy thing you can do when start a big op like you are planning...
Too many shitty genetics, hermaphroditism galore, not homogeneus at all......
Unless you know some badass breeder (In that case im interested too lol) go for clones or do a small pheno hunt first...
I wish you the best!!
MORE WEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!
And yes, to have a better idea of the yields, calculate first the wattage of light....(and use led of course) second search the strain that will perform as a producer..( some will never get you a decend gram x watt no matter how and what)

 

[_VLAD_]

What is the foot print of the container? The bigger gavitas cover quite a big footprint

 

[Grownsince95]

Dude, I'm sorry to be so negative but you are in way over your head. Have you even thought about the problems trying to control environmentals in shipping containers? What the heck kind of IPM will you have? Are these containers in a bigger warehouse? Omg I don't even know where to start.

Are you jumping straight to figuring out your yield without even considering the other stuff? Or is that not your dept?

My only advice at this point would be hire really good people...and LISTEN to them.

Oh, and make sure you have enough money in the bank to cover potentially throwing away the first couple of grows too when the labs come back like shit and your getting cents on the dollar sitting on crap that won't sell.

❤❤

 

[Johnlandy420]

What is the foot print of the container? The bigger gavitas cover quite a big footprint

Even 320 square ft. Multiple companies seem to work with same prefab due to cost I'm sure.

 

[SaintsSamilia]

Just a random thought in this case if you have the money's to invest so heavily why don't each of run on a much smaller scale at least for one or two grows... obviously this is in the very early stages of planning and is definitely part of the green rush... Before you ever opened up shop why not already be well on your way to having all the knowledge needed to not hire one person. 1 - 10 successful plants taken from either clone or seed stage to be honest well before 100 to even 1000... why not be a care taker and move with actual clientele instead of thinking money is the answer to all problems why not figure a few out through the labor of that with everyone of us has a style and then consider the bigger picture... Good luck either way but it would help to be a little more than an investor to provide qaulity product that gets top dollar

 

[midnightsun72]

If you aren't going to be moving your pods often you can also consider getting h containers assembled with an open side. That way you can get double the width. So 16-20ft. Which IMHO would translate to more useable space.
You might consider the White PVC insulated reefer panels for retrofitting the containers.

I think doing a trial on 1 or 2 containers first is wiser. Rather than build 6 flower rooms that aren't meeting your needs.

 

[Anthem]

You can only yield as much as the space and light will allow.
Also with some creative configurations (vertical gardens, Use of CO2, higher efficiency LEDs) growers can achieve as high 4g/w.
But some plants will yield more and others less. So in an operation like yours if you are popping 1200 seeds you'd want a way to catalog each plant and clone. Then pick the most vigorous, high yielding plants and do a run of those and see which you like to smoke and grow the best etc.
Also it's going to cost a fortune in equipment lighting and HVAC to grow those numbers the way you want to in a container. Due to the narrow shape of the container you will always be giving up light to your walls on every light. In larger/wider rooms less light gets wasted because of cross lighting from nearby fixtures and less losses to walls.

If I was in your shoes I'd be hiring someone who knows how to grow. No number of degrees will equip you with the knowledge to identify the plethora of problems that can occur growing indoors from pests to nutrient deficiencies. Losing time and money with failed crops especially when you are first starting out will more than pay for the experienced man.

Dude seriously 4g/w is total bullshit. That would be 8.81 pounds per 1000W DE light. No way!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Johnlandy420]

Dude, I'm sorry to be so negative but you are in way over your head. Have you even thought about the problems trying to control environmentals in shipping containers? What the heck kind of IPM will you have? Are these containers in a bigger warehouse? Omg I don't even know where to start.

Are you jumping straight to figuring out your yield without even considering the other stuff? Or is that not your dept?

My only advice at this point would be hire really good people...and LISTEN to them.

Oh, and make sure you have enough money in the bank to cover potentially throwing away the first couple of grows too when the labs come back like shit and your getting cents on the dollar sitting on crap that won't sell.

❤❤

Thank you so much for your feedback!

The containers will be within pole barn type warehouse only because of permit restrictions. Id like to have them stand alone as in they are highly insulated and ideal little microclimates. There will be ample space between pods to promote proper air exchange. Regarding environmentals, I am aware that our HVAC system is potentially our most important component of our operation. We have chosen shipping containers because they seem to be our cheapest option of implementing a highly controlled environment. We will have an autogrow system in our pods but here is a bit more detail

HVAC: 1-3 Ton Bard wall mount heat pump with ductless air handlers
Dehumidifier : 110 Pint/Day Quest commercial

Regarding IPM.. This is partly why we selected the containers.. (Most control of air intake) We obviously need air intake from outside but we will be using extensive screening/netting to eliminate as many larger problems as possible.. We will definitely have protocols for when things do occur, which will be based on recommendation of budmaster, but I also believe that growing healthy uniform SOG plants with a strong immune system will mitigate many problems. I really like the idea of SOG!!

Alas, we will have money in the bank for expected failures lol. My wife is an accountant so I don't get to skimp on details. COME be our BUDMASTER and eliminate our initial expected failure! For real thank you for feedback!

 

[Johnlandy420]

Dude seriously 4g/w is total bullshit. That would be 8.81 pounds per 1000W DE light. No way!!!!!!!!!!!

It is the first ive seen such numbers lol. I read 1.5g/w could be next level.

 

[SaintsSamilia]

It is the first ive seen such numbers lol. I read 1.5g/w could be next level.

I'd say 2 is an easy average of any commercial grade lighting system out there my first grow indoors I got 2 and am nothing special with no skills just the ability to read folliw directions and make sure the girls stayed green... i had alot of issues from the start from burning my girls with too much light to mites later in flowering... im shooting for 2.5 to 3 on a better 2nd run but 2 isn't that impressive to this new guy

 

[Anthem]

It is the first ive seen such numbers lol. I read 1.5g/w could be next level.

1.5g/w is possible with LED's. HPS that would be 3.30 pounds per light. Some claim it but it is not common to see that high of numbers. I would figure 1 1/2 pounds per light and consider anything over that additional profits.

 

[Johnlandy420]

If you aren't going to be moving your pods often you can also consider getting h containers assembled with an open side. That way you can get double the width. So 16-20ft. Which IMHO would translate to more useable space.
You might consider the White PVC insulated reefer panels for retrofitting the containers.

I think doing a trial on 1 or 2 containers first is wiser. Rather than build 6 flower rooms that aren't meeting your needs.

I completely understand the logic and appreciate the feedback! We are looking to make it profitable from the get go so we need to roll it out on a commercial scale fairly early. Every vendor I spoke with about different container dimensions implied a huge price increase due to extensive custom fabrication.

 

[Johnlandy420]

Just a random thought in this case if you have the money's to invest so heavily why don't each of run on a much smaller scale at least for one or two grows... obviously this is in the very early stages of planning and is definitely part of the green rush... Before you ever opened up shop why not already be well on your way to having all the knowledge needed to not hire one person. 1 - 10 successful plants taken from either clone or seed stage to be honest well before 100 to even 1000... why not be a care taker and move with actual clientele instead of thinking money is the answer to all problems why not figure a few out through the labor of that with everyone of us has a style and then consider the bigger picture... Good luck either way but it would help to be a little more than an investor to provide qaulity product that gets top dollar

Thank you for your input!

BROTHAAA hear me out... I nor anyone on my team is independently wealthy. We are definitely using financing for many of the steps. This entire project was my idea because I have been passionate about the green since I was in my late teens.. flu drove me to consider taking chances and chasing passions in life.. I still have my lab job, I am just pouring everything else into this. My buddies are EOD vets who legitimately want to see cannabis grow as an alternative to opioids.. My one single goal is to become our budmaster as fast as possible. I absolutely want to implement my own style and artistry into the plants. My buddies are much more interested in growing a business and the grind required. I am simply the lab nerd who proposed we grow a dope crop.. We are already too small in the saturated market to be anything but micro/clientele based business. Corporation in area just obtained licenses to grow 200,000 plants. I just want to be a fish in any pond.

Cheers

 

[Johnlandy420]

Oh man dont start from seeds!!! Dont do it....use a selected clone if you can...
Seed runs are the most sketchy thing you can do when start a big op like you are planning...
Too many shitty genetics, hermaphroditism galore, not homogeneus at all......
Unless you know some badass breeder (In that case im interested too lol) go for clones or do a small pheno hunt first...
I wish you the best!!
MORE WEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!
And yes, to have a better idea of the yields, calculate first the wattage of light....(and use led of course) second search the strain that will perform as a producer..( some will never get you a decend gram x watt no matter how and what)

Thank you so much for your Feedback!
I am working on making connections in the area to obtain genetically sound clones but it is a slow process. I am definitely being encouraged by multiple people now to do a pheno hunt before embarking. If I still started traditional grow from seeds, would you suggest buying like 50 seeds of multiple strains and pheno hunt or buying bulk of single strain and cultivating like 300 or 400 for pheno viability? We are looking to work primarily with Indicas due to their SOG success but definitely intend to roll with our dispensary needs.

You guys are so amazing with feedback. I've been in a vacuum the last few months diving into this stuff myself.

 

[SaintsSamilia]

Thank you for your input!

BROTHAAA hear me out... I nor anyone on my team is independently wealthy. We are definitely using financing for many of the steps. This entire project was my idea because I have been passionate about the green since I was in my late teens.. flu drove me to consider taking chances and chasing passions in life.. I still have my lab job, I am just pouring everything else into this. My buddies are EOD vets who legitimately want to see cannabis grow as an alternative to opioids.. My one single goal is to become our budmaster as fast as possible. I absolutely want to implement my own style and artistry into the plants. My buddies are much more interested in growing a business and the grind required. I am simply the lab nerd who proposed we grow a dope crop.. We are already too small in the saturated market to be anything but micro/clientele based business. Corporation in area just obtained licenses to grow 200,000 plants. I just want to be a fish in any pond.

Cheers

Ok I think you missed the small very very valid point im about to make.... First I commend you aswell as your veteran counter parts in your future venture... Being a veteren myself retired at 27 years old with neuropathy believe me I get it.... But the point you missed is if you start with a 5x5 and a small or moderate investment 1500 for litteraly everything top scale #1 no bargain shopping will provide in 1 grow enough to buy everything plus more you will run out to start but there in lies the catch while you invest in upgrading with zero loans you litterally are getting your freedom... I'm a NEWB in a saturated market with big dogs as the competition... I sold out and doubled down I started with zero and am currently getting my license for Caretaking a much shorter and quicker process also less red tape.... With only the original 1500 out of pocket for little to zero money i can legally operate with 180 plants or 10 clients... Every Ounce I sell is pure profit with again in theory zero investment... The thing about the veteran community especially pot heads is we are walking bill boards to a very small and private community for the most part... Working with vets especially if they are there for care purposes is where its at.... The more you all are in touch with the product you are selling the more it sells itself... I never offered anything to anyone I was sought out. With only one person being who had any idea I was growing ... the dispensaries aren't all everyone thinks they are. Anything currently running is already gone clones are being taken to keep the ever so hungry for a reasonable priced or even not shakey dookie oz... I started growing because driving weekly out of state wasn't a good logic never with the intention to do anything but supply my own medicine... Starting small and developing that way will be why people know you over the next guy in a dispensary.

 

[SaintsSamilia]

To be honest if the feds had any interest in funding loans on grow ops of any sort I would have vocational rehabed at the best grow school ever and be operating a straight vet owned and operated grow at minimum but they won't. Same as a million users before me would have. Same as they won't provide veterans with the medicine they won't provide or even pretend to support the cause

 

[Grownsince95]

There's a new book out and it's free on kindle only this week, it's called "From Seed to Success" by Ryan Douglas.

If you haven't already you should definitely check it out! ❤❤