Vaporizing Temperature Question

[BlackBriar7]

Hello,

I'm relatively new to Vaping and cannabis in general. I've seen and read a lot about Vaping at different temperatures releases different cannabinoids and has different effects. I've been going off of the chart below:

Some people mention that start off their vape session on 160 C then go up to 180 C and then end on 210 C in order to get a full range of effects, which makes sense, but wouldn't vaping right off the bat at 210 C give you the full range of effects because it would have to heat up to those activation temperatures on the way to 210 C, or does the 210 C kill off those cannabinoids and affects?

It's all very interesting. If anyone has some insight I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

 

[crossfader]

I always keep mine set at 220C start to finish.

 

[JimmyCreedog]

I find that lower temps give me a more active floaty high. Whereas higher temps give me a more intense heavy stone. Lower temps also help me make my stash last longer and get a complete extraction without charring.

 

[mysticepipedon]

That chart describes myrcene as daytime meds? If I wanted to take a nap in the daytime, maybe… A potent indica with myrcene puts me in dreamland, every time.

Higher temps, for me, are more like smoking flowers, which is what I prefer. But experiment and see what you like.

 

[JimmyCreedog]

Have you heard of high temp vs low temp dabs? I think that's what I was thinking of.

 

[Ponky]

Dabs at 700 F. I prefer to set my volcano temp based on the taste and feel.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations BlackBriar7,

I'm relatively new to Vaping...

10 years ago it seemed important to differentiate between "vaporizers" vs e-Cigs ("vapes"), one being mostly based on convection while the other was initially based on conduction. So these days it's true everyone seems to want it the size of a pen at the cost of pizza delivery, not to mention in Europe... Yet just expect a few trade-offs!

https :// www . psychoactif . org/...

Well i feel quite certain no external linking was really essential just to share this particular tabloïd which can be found practically everywhere. Heat vector types remain the fundamental basics anyway...

Relatively to cannabinoids i must point out those release temperatures actually reflect respective effects in slow/steady thermostatic scenarios, essentially, which hardly accounts for the cigarette/"joint" format at all (where it happens in seconds instead of minutes).

Here's another factor and that's not about release by heat:

Then comes a quest for the ideal "full bouquet" release.

Personally i believe a better strategy would be to explore Pulse Heating with all delays compressed into 1 same brief event, to reduce what i call "baking", as in an oven. Take note this later feature has good sides (like deeper activation in a Volcano...), though it also hurts aroma/taste appreciation because of the cooking: some other paradox!

The fact is if such tabloïd translated reality in an absolute manner then i figure we'd never have felt any rewards from the 1st smoke (...), since there's not even enough time for decarboxylation - which somehow takes place nonetheless. E. G. beware of absolutes, i made circles around my HerbalAire v2.1 for nearly 25 months as i recall, only to realize it didn't suit my own human physiology... Long story, plenty of frustrations & fairly significant money spending.

Good day, have fun!!

 

[Moe.Red]

Some people mention that start off their vape session on 160 C then go up to 180 C and then end on 210 C in order to get a full range of effects, which makes sense, but wouldn't vaping right off the bat at 210 C give you the full range of effects because it would have to heat up to those activation temperatures on the way to 210 C, or does the 210 C kill off those cannabinoids and affects?

So here's the thing about cannabis - the entourage effect is what steers the experience. That means terpenes, flavonoids, and of course cannabinoids.

There are many terpenes that start to become volatile at room temp. That is why weed smells right in the jar on the table without a flame. Typically the hydrocarbon terps are fragile and vaporize at a low temp. A little energy makes them evaporate to get sucked into your lungs, a lot of energy will destroy them on contact. Hydrocarbons are inherently looking to become less complex, more stable molecules. Gasoline is a hydrocarbon as an example.

Then you have the difference in the cannabinoids themselves. If you want THCV to make it to your bloodstream, the temp has to be a lot higher than just THC / CBD inhalation. You can use that to your advantage in that wake up weed could be at a high temp blasting thru some of the lower stuff that makes you high while targeting the THCV that gives you the boost like caffeine.

The opposite is true as well. Time for bed, low temps limits THCV ingestion. This assumes you have THCV in your weed in the first place of course.

So the bottom line is you can flavor the experience with modifying temps, if you have good balanced weed with lots of different cannabinoids and terps. If it is your standard dispensary nug, probably doesn't matter much. I'm generalizing, I'm sure there are amazing dispensaries out there somewhere.

After doing this a bunch, I have to vote for ramping up the temps as you go. Starting out high will limit your entourage effect by killing off fragile molecules before they make it to your lungs.

 

[Nate_in_AK]

So here's the thing about cannabis - the entourage effect is what steers the experience. That means terpenes, flavonoids, and of course cannabinoids.

There are many terpenes that start to become volatile at room temp. That is why weed smells right in the jar on the table without a flame. Typically the hydrocarbon terps are fragile and vaporize at a low temp. A little energy makes them evaporate to get sucked into your lungs, a lot of energy will destroy them on contact. Hydrocarbons are inherently looking to become less complex, more stable molecules. Gasoline is a hydrocarbon as an example.

Then you have the difference in the cannabinoids themselves. If you want THCV to make it to your bloodstream, the temp has to be a lot higher than just THC / CBD inhalation. You can use that to your advantage in that wake up weed could be at a high temp blasting thru some of the lower stuff that makes you high while targeting the THCV that gives you the boost like caffeine.

The opposite is true as well. Time for bed, low temps limits THCV ingestion. This assumes you have THCV in your weed in the first place of course.

So the bottom line is you can flavor the experience with modifying temps, if you have good balanced weed with lots of different cannabinoids and terps. If it is your standard dispensary nug, probably doesn't matter much. I'm generalizing, I'm sure there are amazing dispensaries out there somewhere.

After doing this a bunch, I have to vote for ramping up the temps as you go. Starting out high will limit your entourage effect by killing off fragile molecules before they make it to your lungs.

This is really interesting, thinking about the temperature where different components are destroyed. If I understand your point is that jumping directly to 210C will result in destruction of a portion of the material before consumption can take place? What low temp do you start out at?

 

[Moe.Red]

This is really interesting, thinking about the temperature where different components are destroyed. If I understand your point is that jumping directly to 210C will result in destruction of a portion of the material before consumption can take place? What low temp do you start out at?

Yes, I believe that is true.

Here is an example. In the book Cannabis Pharmacy



Backes writes about a method that I have used ever since I read and understood what he was talking about. This is for water pipes, but you put the weed in the bowl and start by using your lighter on the outside of the glass bowl - not even touching the weed. When you inhale, it's like drinking perfume. It's like a slap of terpenes all at once with almost no smoke. Then move on to start to combust the weed, little at first then work your way up with the heat.

I'm looking at doing it the same way with a vaporizer. For me, it works.

In terms of where I start - room temp. Seriously. Take a couple of puffs on the way up. There will not be any vapor, but you will taste the terps all the way up.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031646418X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Moe.Red,

...entourage effect...

Thanks for the enhanced response.

...little energy makes them evaporate... ...a lot of energy will destroy them on contact.

That seems to imply a thermostatic/conductive heating context, e.g. static/frozen in time. Which is why i've adopted the notion of a "Release/Transport Agent" generally involving Hot Dry Air as in Ovenizers... Pulse Heating mainly based on convective heat means the noble molecules get immediately "Transported" away, shortly after being "Released", and or course this evidently depends on airflow - or in other words: MOTION. The opposite of static.

...



So lets remind the reader(s) that when staring patiently at a balloon for 2 ~ 3 minutes while it inflates (for example...), it results in cooking the good stuff inside for that long. Briefly put that's an hyperbole for anyone in need of some healthwise smoker alternatives! The thing is a cigarette/"joint" just never works in such odd manner and yet that's how most of us get initiated...

Good day, have fun.

 

[pop22]

Pick a temp, vape a bowl. Try a different temp on the next and so on. You'll find one that is right for you. But as to fiddling around with different temps during a session, well, you'll get the same amount of cannabinoids and terpenes either way. For me it sometimes comes to the strain I'm vaping, but 90% of the time, 370-380-F works well. Some time I just vape the first three hits to enjoy the flavor, and then dump it and refill, i have lots of weed, i don't mind wasting some lol! And even doing that, i use less weed than smoking.

Someone mentioned the Herbalaire which I also own. my lady and I have used it every night for the last 4 years at bedtime. We call it Bong O'clock lol! We use it with a bong that I pop into the freezer for 15 minutes. For those last 4 years, i rarely have insomnia, which was a lifelong problem.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Pop22,

Someone mentioned the Herbalaire...

That someone was Egzoset (the one with a capital "E"...) and we actually got multiple exchanges on a few different discussion forums before, like FC and AFN as i vaguely recall.

...90% of the time, 370-380 °F works well...

Too bad i can't find such settings on my customized VaporGenie pipe any more than there used to be anything similar on plain old "joints" as those which i used to load in a "tokeu" as (former) hashish smoker, before it ended with years of abstinence that my vaporist transition finally fixed in 2011. Although our HerbalAire units seem like one fair commercial implementation it's still basically a versatile/affordable Volcano, while i must insist over the simple fact that "temperature" only reflects EVENTS OF THE PAST + heat doesn't move instantly (and time never backwards...): it's an echo revealing complex interactions between energy and matter (e.g. in terms of specific heat capacity, surface-contact & mass) plus of course the TIME factor which is absolutely CRUCIAL and nothing close of trivial at all.

The funny thing about Hot Dry Air Ovenizers is that these days we can read quite often from people claiming to experience "Micro-Doses", on concentrates... As for e-Cigs i'm afraid that conduction heat was tried decades ago and considering famous graphics got previously mentioned i also happen to have the THC decarboxylation curve in mind, another famous artifact contemporary of legacy technologies, like VCR tapes, thermostatic soldering irons suitable for operation near 183 °C, etc. If any of my related FC posts survived it's going to refer to Steinel's HG2310 Heat Gun, chosen specifically for it's minimal AIRFLOW rate of 3.6 cfm only - or maybe the OP's tabloïd made me confused. Take note heat was injected into the bowl because of airflow, contrary to ovenizers.

Anyway what i can equally testify about is that health issues emerged after ~6 months as HA owner and despite all sustained efforts i discovered an alternative almost compatible with my own preference which just required some fair bit of concept revision that gave me back hope in future solutions. The HerbalAire collects dust somewhere and i even gave away my Arizer V-Tower after only 3 weeks of use for similar reasons, that was before Trudeau was elected if i'm not mistaking. That whole "hobby" cost me a few thousand dollars, by the way...

Good day, have fun!!

 

[Glassdub]

Always done 390F dry herb with Arizer Solo 2 pretty consistently, sometimes I went higher but not often as it didn't seem to benefit, gets plenty toasted at that temp IME.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Glassdub,

Always done 390F dry herb with Arizer Solo 2 pretty consistently...

That's close to 204 °C and i remember in my thermostatic days that this was my upper limit to never pass, but i forgot the exact expression describing why it was becoming detrimental over this temperature. Flirts with combustion arrived much later after my initiation, once i got the means (based on clean-burning butane).

Tell me, i was banned on GrassCity right after reminding a visitor that Arizer always kept it a constant criteria in their designs to depend on the user's inhalation (e.g. implying the lungs path) to also promote electronics ventilation - since at least 2008, which was the very 1st trace of related concerns to ever come to my attention. So, has Arizer finally included separate paths containment in any new products lately? ... Just asking. Or maybe they didn't like it if i happened to write "robo fart"?... It's been a while since my last attempt to follow that trend i shall confess!!

...sometimes I went higher but not often as it didn't seem to benefit...

As i vaguely recall i think the "high temperatures" range is desirable if one is after THCa, THCv or perhaps it's both. You tell me! The CBD noble molecules of "therapeutic" cannabis is another case residing near the opposite boundary of aroma/taste, in part by fault of ovenizer "baking" i might add. Pre-Heating is fine and probably even necessary but lets not forget the OP mentioned "vaping off the bat", so it sounds reasonable to assume he's actually running on e-Liquid(s) dipping in some resistive/coiled heater element powered through an electronic (PWM) rheostat inside a closed-circuit control loop translating as further delays, the slow-steady fashion type i think... As a consequence an accumulation of "baking" effect is to be expected and experience confirms this logical intuition, using Pulse Heating.

With my cust. VG pipe the range of operation starts with clean-butane burning from a single torch flame and goes up to butane lighters with 3. Stronger flame throttle means more energy, hence i've been forced to observe that triple-flame torching works best though this necessarily involves a time-compressed scenario where all temperature slopes coïncide into a brief event, while it's hesitation from longer periods that typically caused combustion accidents, from hesitation interfering with manual mode. Those pocket lighters have relatively tiny fuel tanks and i must testify that my 1 flame unit routinely reminds me about the importance of ENERGY - proportional to throttle.

Ideally it's energy carried by a (convective) "Release/Transport Agent" which causes transformations in the bowl, like to raise temperature until opacity from "cloud" generation feels satisfactory. But the OP's tool appears to suggest an e-Liquid tank instead...

So, in e-Cigs we deal with conduction heating that comes with, guess what, the accumulated effects of "baking" of course. Temperature in a whole liguid mass has to raise until "Transport" can even occur, and this sounds just as unappealing to me as to cook one ~300 mg simply to gain the privilege of an aroma/taste experience lasting only a couple puffs...

How's temperature in e-liquids measured anyway? Ain't the settings more about an extrapolation of the possible yet-to-come toke?... Almost like stove controls in my kitchen.

To be honest if it's got to be electric then i wish i could name a square device with optical scanning of the cannabic path in its control loop.

Got to go! Dinner on its way...

Good day, have fun!!

 

[mysticepipedon]

I seem to have arrived at 190 C, on my Mighty, as my preferred temp. I don't do any adjusting, though maybe I should give it a try.

 

[Glassdub]

I went by this:

Never went lower than 390F, makes me curious.

 

[Egzoset]

Supplement for the curious mind:

It's been posted on FC, probably a thousand pages ago or two! Now explain it to me how this affects/support convective mode, if any...

 

[pop22]

Salutations Glassdub,



That's close to 204 °C and i remember in my thermostatic days that this was my upper limit to never pass, but i forgot the exact expression describing why it was becoming detrimental over this temperature. Flirts with combustion arrived much later after my initiation, once i got the means (based on clean-burning butane).

Tell me, i was banned on GrassCity right after reminding a visitor that Arizer always kept it a constant criteria in their designs to depend on the user's inhalation (e.g. implying the lungs path) to also promote electronics ventilation - since at least 2008, which was the very 1st trace of related concerns to ever come to my attention. So, has Arizer finally included separate paths containment in any new products lately? ... Just asking. Or maybe they didn't like it if i happened to write "robo fart"?... It's been a while since my last attempt to follow that trend i shall confess!!





As i vaguely recall i think the "high temperatures" range is desirable if one is after THCa, THCv or perhaps it's both. You tell me! The CBD noble molecules of "therapeutic" cannabis is another case residing near the opposite boundary of aroma/taste, in part by fault of ovenizer "baking" i might add. Pre-Heating is fine and probably even necessary but lets not forget the OP mentioned "vaping off the bat", so it sounds reasonable to assume he's actually running on e-Liquid(s) dipping in some resistive/coiled heater element powered through an electronic (PWM) rheostat inside a closed-circuit control loop translating as further delays, the slow-steady fashion type i think... As a consequence an accumulation of "baking" effect is to be expected and experience confirms this logical intuition, using Pulse Heating.

With my cust. VG pipe the range of operation starts with clean-butane burning from a single torch flame and goes up to butane lighters with 3. Stronger flame throttle means more energy, hence i've been forced to observe that triple-flame torching works best though this necessarily involves a time-compressed scenario where all temperature slopes coïncide into a brief event, while it's hesitation from longer periods that typically caused combustion accidents, from hesitation interfering with manual mode. Those pocket lighters have relatively tiny fuel tanks and i must testify that my 1 flame unit routinely reminds me about the importance of ENERGY - proportional to throttle.

Ideally it's energy carried by a (convective) "Release/Transport Agent" which causes transformations in the bowl, like to raise temperature until opacity from "cloud" generation feels satisfactory. But the OP's tool appears to suggest an e-Liquid tank instead...

So, in e-Cigs we deal with conduction heating that comes with, guess what, the accumulated effects of "baking" of course. Temperature in a whole liguid mass has to raise until "Transport" can even occur, and this sounds just as unappealing to me as to cook one ~300 mg simply to gain the privilege of an aroma/taste experience lasting only a couple puffs...

How's temperature in e-liquids measured anyway? Ain't the settings more about an extrapolation of the possible yet-to-come toke?... Almost like stove controls in my kitchen.

To be honest if it's got to be electric then i wish i could name a square device with optical scanning of the cannabic path in its control loop.

Got to go! Dinner on its way...

Good day, have fun!!

Although I find your quest for perfection in the extraction of cannabinoids from Cannabis plant matter interesting, I don't think that many people are looking to delve this deep into theory, they just want functional devices with which to consume their bud. I think that most of us find the devices available to us do an adequate job, and some do an excellent job. I'd love to see you actually develop a marketable device based on your conception of a competent device.

 

[Backyard_Boogie]

There is much debate about the perfect temp for vaping. I spent many many hours trying to figure this out myself and after my quest was completed this is what I came up with.

When I vaped at the lower temps I got high. Then I vaped at the medium temps and I got high. I vaped at the high temps and I got high. So to answer your question I think its just personal preference. Anyways Im really high so Im gonna go take a nap. Peace