Trimming and Drying for FLAVOR?

[Dothraki]

Its the easiest/hardest thing to explain because we can be saying the same thing and meaning two completely different concepts.
I do not know your background, and not trying to dig and find out, point being if all you have lived in is a big city and that's all you know, you may or may not understand what breaking a dry tree limb or stick sounds or feels like, if you have its not a hard concept to grasp. Not throwing shade just saying, go outside and grab a dry stick and break it, that's what your stem should do, be it main stalk or side branches.
Maybe think in different terms. The concepts you are talking about with temp and humidity during drying are directly related to businesses or buyers/sellers being able to have shelf life out of their product. Not so much so with a hobby farmer or farmers market business where you constantly have fresh product and quick turn around.
My method is simple. I use bankers boxes (cardboard boxes easy to obtain and cheap). I saw NVclosetmedgrower use that method a few years ago. He has trophies for his cannabis and if he does it that way there must be something to it. Temps are low 70's and humidity is around 40% no special room its just in a box. Takes an easy 2-3 weeks for the product to be dry. That's dry and ready to jar no burping or packets.
Commercial practices are good, but there is a difference between someone wanting to chop a plant and have a great flavorful smoke that does not smell like hay in 2 or 3 weeks and someone wanting the same a year later.

Thanks for the input. I’ll start off by saying...twigs will snap at a large and wide range of moisture contents. That’s where it gets tricky and more details are needed, but difficult for most of us to frame into a clear and whole picture. I would imagine a small stem near a gigantic dense bud would snap differently than a thicker stem with loose larfy buds....instead of equalling due to the opposites in balance. I know that sounds odd but I can clarify if needed. Anyway, my point is maybe more details surrounding the bigger picture would be beneficial. Maybe I’m wrong and all stems will dry at the same rate but there’s still a pretty wide margin where you could “snap” the stem. Even a living stem can make a snap on a healthy plant. I’ve lived in big cities but spent most of my life near hills, woods and creeks. Interesting observation though, as some people maybe never snapped a twig lol. Never thought about that. Anyway it’s a good discussion and something that’s hard to convey with words. Especially since different branches will snap at different times based on moisture content even on the same plant, but also depending on the physical properties of the individual plant, the fiber structure and how the plant structure developed internally.

I know this sounds like a lot...and I’m sure most people will think it’s crazy to think this in-depth about a stem snapping but it’s also crucial to grasp if you want to perfect the dry and cure process. Also, I think everyone will dry to different levels before jarring based on what worked best for them through trial and error...which still might not be the ideal moisture content they settled on. But probably impossible to find out because there’s just too many variables.

Which I guess is why a basic “when the stems snap” is maybe the best way to put it lol. It puts you in the ballpark of the right time to jar.

Also, as I understand it...it’s not good to overdry but it’s worse to jar too early? Does that sound right? Jarring too early will give you the hay and grass smells from the chlorophyll?

 

[Dothraki]

@FuriousStyles oh and sorry forgot to mention... I will definitely need my buds to stay top quality for long shelf lives. Not because I’m selling it but because I plan on smoking it and doubt I’ll get through 2 full plants in a year. So curing for long term is definitely of interest.

 

[growsince79]

Cool thanks guys. I’ve always wondered if that was over dry. Sometimes tiny stems don’t seem to ever snap because they are so close to the moisture source and rehydrate quickly. Would you test the main branches for snaps or the tiny twigs connected to the buds?

Thanks for the input. I’ll start off by saying...twigs will snap at a large and wide range of moisture contents. That’s where it gets tricky and more details are needed, but difficult for most of us to frame into a clear and whole picture. I would imagine a small stem near a gigantic dense bud would snap differently than a thicker stem with loose larfy buds....instead of equalling due to the opposites in balance. I know that sounds odd but I can clarify if needed. Anyway, my point is maybe more details surrounding the bigger picture would be beneficial. Maybe I’m wrong and all stems will dry at the same rate but there’s still a pretty wide margin where you could “snap” the stem. Even a living stem can make a snap on a healthy plant. I’ve lived in big cities but spent most of my life near hills, woods and creeks. Interesting observation though, as some people maybe never snapped a twig lol. Never thought about that. Anyway it’s a good discussion and something that’s hard to convey with words. Especially since different branches will snap at different times based on moisture content even on the same plant, but also depending on the physical properties of the individual plant, the fiber structure and how the plant structure developed internally.

I know this sounds like a lot...and I’m sure most people will think it’s crazy to think this in-depth about a stem snapping but it’s also crucial to grasp if you want to perfect the dry and cure process. Also, I think everyone will dry to different levels before jarring based on what worked best for them through trial and error...which still might not be the ideal moisture content they settled on. But probably impossible to find out because there’s just too many variables.

Which I guess is why a basic “when the stems snap” is maybe the best way to put it lol. It puts you in the ballpark of the right time to jar.

Also, as I understand it...it’s not good to overdry but it’s worse to jar too early? Does that sound right? Jarring too early will give you the hay and grass smells from the chlorophyll?

As soon as you can break nugs off the stem clean (no tail)-its time.

 

[FuriousStyles]

@FuriousStyles oh and sorry forgot to mention... I will definitely need my buds to stay top quality for long shelf lives. Not because I’m selling it but because I plan on smoking it and doubt I’ll get through 2 full plants in a year. So curing for long term is definitely of interest.

There are a lot of variables in what you are asking, though it is really only as complicated as one wishes to make it.
Strain types can have a lot to do with it as well. Fruity terps, no matter how you dry are not going to last as long as other terp profiles like spicey or earthy.
Personal anecdotal experience, I just finished off my last jar of Durban Tai High Flyer, from Oct, and it still smelled and tasted great after 4 months in a jar.
If you are into extended storage you should look into vacuum sealed bags rather than jars and store in fridge.
If you want to know the truth of the matter you should vary trimming. Hang the whole plant, take a branch after a week and do all the things you have talked about. Then wait a week and take another branch and do the same. Wait another 3-7 days and take the last of it. Compare them and you will know for sure what works.
By the way having a still green branch snap because the membrane wall broke and having a completely dry branch snap clean in two are very different things. Like @growsince79 said if you break off a nug and it still pulls a string off with it, your plant is not dry yet.

 

[PipeCarver]

Cool thanks guys. I’ve always wondered if that was over dry. Sometimes tiny stems don’t seem to ever snap because they are so close to the moisture source and rehydrate quickly. Would you test the main branches for snaps or the tiny twigs connected to the buds?

I hand prune all the big leaves off then let dry in a small closet I try for 60% but its not always possible. I can only drop the temp to 67f day & 65f night or I get wife flack.......I used to trim it all off but after starting to cook with it I use more of what I trim off and I'm more liberal with the waste pile.......I'll trim by hand after its dry enough it will crumple off and be good enough to jar. I put my stuff to bed dirty........it all smokes and what crumples to the bottom ( sweet roughage) I'm cooking with.

 

[Dothraki]

As soon as you can break nugs off the stem clean (no tail)-its time.

That’s a great way to put it...and leaves no room for question. Nice!

 

[Dothraki]

There are a lot of variables in what you are asking, though it is really only as complicated as one wishes to make it.
Strain types can have a lot to do with it as well. Fruity terps, no matter how you dry are not going to last as long as other terp profiles like spicey or earthy.
Personal anecdotal experience, I just finished off my last jar of Durban Tai High Flyer, from Oct, and it still smelled and tasted great after 4 months in a jar.
If you are into extended storage you should look into vacuum sealed bags rather than jars and store in fridge.
If you want to know the truth of the matter you should vary trimming. Hang the whole plant, take a branch after a week and do all the things you have talked about. Then wait a week and take another branch and do the same. Wait another 3-7 days and take the last of it. Compare them and you will know for sure what works.
By the way having a still green branch snap because the membrane wall broke and having a completely dry branch snap clean in two are very different things. Like @growsince79 said if you break off a nug and it still pulls a string off with it, your plant is not dry yet.

I’ve always stored in “herb preserve” jars. Freshness and terps still good for about a year but start degrading quite a bit after. I do have a stack of grove bags but will only be testing a few buds in them. Good idea on testing the dry week by week. Never thought the fridge thing would work out too well but I guess if it’s dry enough and sealed well.

 

[Dr.Green55]

You no the saying its more then one way to skin a cat, lol well that what i think this boils down to. Its more then one way to do it, its what ever way you have learned and got good at, But in the end I'm not sure if there is a difference, If i had to give an opinion I'd say not but that is from my experiences.

I have wet trimmed forever, I have my process down I understand what I'm looking as it goes along etc. but I have also extensively tried dry trimming. what I didn't like about dry trimming was knocking off all the heads and having a pile when you were done. And I found it to be a little more leafy when done unless you tried to get in to get them off, but then your knocking more heads off. with wet trim if you got good plants you don't even have to touch the bud.

In the end I think wet or dry really doesn't matter as long as you know what your doing.

 

[Dothraki]

You no the saying its more then one way to skin a cat, lol well that what i think this boils down to. Its more then one way to do it, its what ever way you have learned and got good at, But in the end I'm not sure if there is a difference, If i had to give an opinion I'd say not but that is from my experiences.

I have wet trimmed forever, I have my process down I understand what I'm looking as it goes along etc. but I have also extensively tried dry trimming. what I didn't like about dry trimming was knocking off all the heads and having a pile when you were done. And I found it to be a little more leafy when done unless you tried to get in to get them off, but then your knocking more heads off. with wet trim if you got good plants you don't even have to touch the bud.

In the end I think wet or dry really doesn't matter as long as you know what your doing.

Yeah knocking all those trichomes off isnt good....UNLESS you throw a screen under it and make some hash. That’s what I plan to do. But I will have to do at least 1 branch wet trimmed, just to make an honest comparison.

 

[freezeland2]

You no the saying its more then one way to skin a cat, lol well that what i think this boils down to. Its more then one way to do it, its what ever way you have learned and got good at, But in the end I'm not sure if there is a difference, If i had to give an opinion I'd say not but that is from my experiences.

I have wet trimmed forever, I have my process down I understand what I'm looking as it goes along etc. but I have also extensively tried dry trimming. what I didn't like about dry trimming was knocking off all the heads and having a pile when you were done. And I found it to be a little more leafy when done unless you tried to get in to get them off, but then your knocking more heads off. with wet trim if you got good plants you don't even have to touch the bud.

In the end I think wet or dry really doesn't matter as long as you know what your doing.

^^^^^^^^
Winner winner

 

[Dothraki]

^^^^^^^^
Winner winner

Not a contest

 

[Dr.Green55]

You no the saying its more then one way to skin a cat, lol well that what i think this boils down to. Its more then one way to do it, its what ever way you have learned and got go at, But in the end I'm not sure if there is a difference, If i had to give an opinion I'd say not butt that is from my experiences.

I have wet trimmed forever, I have my process down I understand what I'm looking as it goes along etc. but I have also extensively tried dry trimming. what I didn't like about dry trimming was knocking off all the heads and having a pile when you were done. And I found it to be a little more leafy when done unless you tried to get in to get them off, but then your knocking more heads off. with wet trim if you got good plants you don't even have to touch the bud.

In the end I think wet or dry really doesn't matter as long as you know what your doing.

Yeah knocking all those trichomes off isnt good....UNLESS you throw a screen under it and make some hash. That’s what I plan to do. But I will have to do at least 1 branch wet trimmed, just to make an honest comparison.

Your exactly right, for guys looking to make some hash the dry trim is a plus, a lot of it to depends on the natural environment and your drying setup and capabilities, if your in a low RH area dry trim may be better leaving more leaves to help slow the process. For wet trim I like to start with 60-65 temp, and about 50 % RH , the moisture of the bud is about 70% by weight, so I want the drying process to start fairly quickly, I do that to lessen the chance of mold, and then I just adjust from there depending on drying rate, if its to fast I just bump RH up a bit to slow it, if to slow I just lower it.

 

[Dothraki]

Your exactly right, for guys looking to make some hash the dry trim is a plus, a lot of it to depends on the natural environment and your drying setup and capabilities, if your in a low RH area dry trim may be better leaving more leaves to help slow the process. For wet trim I like to start with 60-65 temp, and about 50 % RH , the moisture of the bud is about 70% by weight, so I want the drying process to start fairly quickly, I do that to lessen the chance of mold, and then I just adjust from there depending on drying rate, if its to fast I just bump RH up a bit to slow it, if to slow I just lower it.

Yeah I’m around low mid 60s and 40% ish... without the humidifier it’d be like 32% but they seem to be drying very slow compared to what I thought would happen in these temps and RH. Been drying for a week and still probably another week or so before jar time. I’m thinking the low temps help a lot.

Whats weird is I can’t smell the terps unless I lightly touch the sugar leaves, then it’s crazy smelling, all sweet and candy like pineapple but just hanging there it’s not strong smelling at all.

 

[freezeland2]

Not a contest

Didn’t think it was.

 

[sambapati]

I have found wet trimming is easier for me, I am about to cure 1/2 plant in jars w/ 2-way humidity packs. To each his own, do what works for you, Cheers SS

Agree with2-way PACman SSgrower above. There is also a paper bag step between air drying the plant (whether leaves were taken or not). FYI there is a thread from 2019-2020 exact same topic.

 

[sambapati]

Agree with2-way PACman SSgrower above. There is also a paper bag step between air drying the plant (whether leaves were taken or not). FYI there is a thread from 2019-2020 exact same topic.

7 days air drying and headed for brown bagland...still in 19 c 60 rh/AC 2 dehumidifiers, 1 Hitachi filter

 

[Dothraki]

Agree with2-way PACman SSgrower above. There is also a paper bag step between air drying the plant (whether leaves were taken or not). FYI there is a thread from 2019-2020 exact same topic.

I’ve read that the paper bag imparts flavor to the buds. But I have some testing this out with an Oz or so. It seems some use the paper bag when it’s too humid and some when it’s too dry. I would think it’d work better if it’s low humidity to help retain the humidity within the bag for longer. It seems to be slowing the dry, to sweat the flowers.

I realize there are probably threads with the exact same subject...seeing as how this is a cannabis growing forum. Most topics will be the same thing hashed out repeatedly. This will remain until enough research has been done to give us the hard truths behind the myths and methods, but then we wouldn’t need a forum to discuss it.

 

[freezeland2]

I’ve read that the paper bag imparts flavor to the buds. But I have some testing this out with an Oz or so. It seems some use the paper bag when it’s too humid and some when it’s too dry. I would think it’d work better if it’s low humidity to help retain the humidity within the bag for longer. It seems to be slowing the dry, to sweat the flowers.

I realize there are probably threads with the exact same subject...seeing as how this is a cannabis growing forum. Most topics will be the same thing hashed out repeatedly. This will remain until enough research has been done to give us the hard truths behind the myths and methods, but then we wouldn’t need a forum to discuss it.

One of the members here did a dry & cure run based on weight at start and end of dry. Interesting read if you can find the thread. I ain’t got the energy to search for it.

 

[Dothraki]

One of the members here did a dry & cure run based on weight at start and end of dry. Interesting read if you can find the thread. I ain’t got the energy to search for it.

That’s cool. I’m still trying to sift through all the BS when it comes to drying and curing. For instance... with my test branches (so I don’t F up my whole harvest) I took the advise of “DON’T JAR TOO EARLY!” “ WAIT FOR STEMS TO SNAP” blah blah blah.... fucking wrong! It was a 10 day dry, nice and crispy but with some deep inner give when squeezed, jarred and burped for the past 11 days. The sativa never tightened up, is still too green looking, dry but not crumbly, still tastes like chlorophyll. I am sure it’s because I let it dry out too much before jarring. HOW THE HELL IS CHLOROPHYLL GOING TO BREAK DOWN IF THE BUD IS SO DAMN DRY THE STEMS SNAP????

I wonder if this is one of those cases I hear about where other growers spread misinformation because their main goal is to sell sell sell.

OR.... everyone that waits until stems snap is drying in a crazy humid environments like a natural 65-70% RH not 38% RH with a humidifier on full blast just to bring it to 50-60% like in NY winter months.

I must’ve let these test branches dry out too much. I took one bud and jarred it while it was still pliable, not crunchy on the outside, but sorta dry, stems were stiffer but still bendy not snapping at all and I jarred this one but. It tightened right up in a few days. I haven’t smoked it yet but I can just tell it was jarred with the proper moisture content....which is WAY MORE than what most people have advised. Including articles.

Can anyone in dry ass Northeast US states confirm? Do you guys jar them before stems snap and they are still very pliable with a good moisture content?

I will admit that the OTHER strain I seemed to over dry has amazing smell....just doesn’t come through in taste.

Thanks for letting me express my frustration

 

[jguit]

It takes a while to get things right and there's always room for improvement but here are things that greatly helped me.

In my experience buds that are not 'tight' (if not genetic) were grown incorrectly. Whether that's not enough light, too much light. too hot, feed error or harvesting too early. In my case it was usually harvesting too early. I made this mistake many times. These days i harvest on the more ripe side of things. This GREATLY improved smells, taste, density and everything else.

Over-fertilizing will also make your bud taste like shit. Start tapering your fertilizer down around mid/late flower but obviously don't starve your plants. This is assuming you're in hydro/soilless, I'm not a soil grower.

Stem snapping is just a guide and it does work but also takes a bit of feel. If your buds are underdeveloped and fluffy (not tight), they're going to dry out quicker than a bud that has fully matured and ripened properly.

If you're drying at the correct temp and RH, it'd be pretty hard to over dry your buds. At least that has been my experience.

Nothing is going to make incorrectly grown/harvested bud taste good. Genetics play a large part as well.

I'll also add.. Bud that has been jarred too early and not allowed the time to properly dry will also taste like shit.