HighScience - HPS vs LED: What temp do I keep my canopy explained

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Here is a good read, about green light.

" Because green light can penetrate further into the leaf than red or blue light, in strong white light, any additional green light absorbed by the lower chloroplasts would increase leaf photosynthesis to a greater extent than would additional red or blue light."
Yes 100% this bro. And when you add it up its actually surprising how impactful it can be.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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yeah, not following you on this one. I come from HPS, compare that to LED, night and day in regards to IR.
Absolutely but the blurples well some still give off decent amounts when compared to full spectrum. Of course less than HPS as you say.
 
RootsRuler

RootsRuler

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Doesn't light in particular spectrums like yellow that can't be used very efficiently by the plant in veg also raise leaf temps? In my reading, it's been claimed that because LED's are able to better pinpoint the light spectrums beneficial to photosynthesis while reducing or even eliminating those that the plant uses very little of, leaf temps are reduced meaning you can run a little hotter in the room supposedly.

My reading has said that green and yellow are very low on the scale of photosynthesis but your articles are saying the opposite. Is there some degree of truth in both and where does that lie?
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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638
Doesn't light in particular spectrums like yellow that can't be used very efficiently by the plant in veg also raise leaf temps? In my reading, it's been claimed that because LED's are able to better pinpoint the light spectrums beneficial to photosynthesis while reducing or even eliminating those that the plant uses very little of, leaf temps are reduced meaning you can run a little hotter in the room supposedly.

My reading has said that green and yellow are very low on the scale of photosynthesis but your articles are saying the opposite. Is there some degree of truth in both and where does that lie?
Because your article is flawed research… even scientific information is subject to change and thats an example of assumption of the scientific community. In what your reading they are assuming that these spectrums have the same efficiency over differing intensities… and thats just not the case and has been clearly shown in other research.

It was also believed that far red, infared and UV also had little to do with photosynthesis and effects on plants… this is also outdated science. Plant efficiency of use and effects of each spectrum infact are affected by the ratio and intensity of other spectrums. The most well known is the emerson effect and we see many companies trying to take advantage of that benefit and exploit it for profit.

The thing is science requires control of variables and we cannot and should not assume they transition linearly… and new science shows exactly that in this specific area. So while the standard of testing was mostly done at around 400ppfd so that studies could be put together to give a reliable comparison results it cannot assumed to be the same once you change a control factor and a whole new standard would then be needed and studies to show the curve at which they happen because we know its not linear.

There are more flows in scientific studies than most imagine and they are still our best source of information but that doesn’t mean they are 100% free of oversights, data interpretation or other flaws.

Simple fact is you dont know what you dont know but every study done is a step to remedy that
 
RootsRuler

RootsRuler

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So there really can't be a determination given since so many variables can affect the other? How would we be able to establish a baseline that can be roughly followed? I get that ideal conditions is what we're all after but to be able to precisely dial in each and every factor is difficult for most without building an environment from ground up that would support that kind of control.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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So there really can't be a determination given since so many variables can affect the other? How would we be able to establish a baseline that can be roughly followed? I get that ideal conditions is what we're all after but to be able to precisely dial in each and every factor is difficult for most without building an environment from ground up that would support that kind of control.
Yeah, thats what I do.

Control and measure every setpoint. Overkill for most, but results are only anecdotal if you don't control every variable.

You can show correlation, but cannot be positive about causation without it.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc - easy trap to fall into.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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So there really can't be a determination given since so many variables can affect the other? How would we be able to establish a baseline that can be roughly followed? I get that ideal conditions is what we're all after but to be able to precisely dial in each and every factor is difficult for most without building an environment from ground up that would support that kind of control.
Learn to read the plants and adjust… lifelong venture. Then go from say HID to LED and do it all over again lol.

Truth is there is no perfect and there wont be, we just need to learn to accept that and do the best we can with the information and knowledge we have… and that plenty enough to pull off some amazing grows.

I do the same. I build environmental boxes to grow in. Its not a must but it sure makes doing evaluations and replication a lot easier
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Learn to read the plants and adjust
This is my biggest opportunity to learn.

1 pic


What is that? I'll bet I get 4 different answers from 4 different top growers.
 
RootsRuler

RootsRuler

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So, going by what the abstract says, a light with a more balanced green spectrum, meaning more of it rather than increasing red or blue would be more beneficial to the photosynthetic process? Are there any papers on what that baseline is? Would like to know for future LED light purchases. Did a quick google search but didn't find anything really relevant to this subject so I'm asking y'all!😊
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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313
If they can answer by that picture id question their certainty.

Could be many reasons but the only way to narrow it down is to have a good history of the grow and all the conditions and practices over it
According to google that is P deficiency. So you look at your leaves, look at others on the web, try to match them up, but they all look similar.

Then how do you know that the pics you were looking at on google were properly diagnosed?

When you look at books like Cervantes or Clark, the diagnosis pages are all cartoon looking pics. Its a lot to grasp, especially for new growers.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
So, going by what the abstract says, a light with a more balanced green spectrum, meaning more of it rather than increasing red or blue would be more beneficial to the photosynthetic process? Are there any papers on what that baseline is? Would like to know for future LED light purchases. Did a quick google search but didn't find anything really relevant to this subject so I'm asking y'all!😊
Yes, but at the same time I can point you to a study that shows green in flower will lower THC. So, hmpfffff.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
According to google that is P deficiency. So you look at your leaves, look at others on the web, try to match them up, but they all look similar.

Then how do you know that the pics you were looking at on google were properly diagnosed?

When you look at books like Cervantes or Clark, the diagnosis pages are all cartoon looking pics. Its a lot to grasp, especially for new growers.
Its more than a P deficiency but yeah it shows signs of P.

But that doesn’t and cannot come close to answering why and waaay to many ppl think lack of….

When infact 95%+ of nutrient issues are not a simple add more of that nutrient
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
Yes, but at the same time I can point you to a study that shows green in flower will lower THC. So, hmpfffff.
Yeah im a big believer that the most beneficial spectral ratio changes as the stages change… not that the plants want or need it but rather that the results we want can be manipulated
 
RootsRuler

RootsRuler

2,389
263
Its more than a P deficiency but yeah it shows signs of P.

But that doesn’t and cannot come close to answering why and waaay to many ppl think lack of….

When infact 95%+ of nutrient issues are not a simple add more of that nutrient
It's the american way! 😄 More is always better!
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
Its more than a P deficiency but yeah it shows signs of P.

But that doesn’t and cannot come close to answering why and waaay to many ppl think lack of….

When infact 95%+ of nutrient issues are not a simple add more of that nutrient
Absolutely.

If there was one thing I could do for this hobby, it would be to put diagnosis to bed with some sort of... something. Something that analyzes the water in the new growth area of the plant, the source, PH, plug in your environment and growth stage, does a comparison of what the plant has in it vs. what is available to it, and make some decisions.

I'll have to start tinkering.
 
RootsRuler

RootsRuler

2,389
263
Absolutely.

If there was one thing I could do for this hobby, it would be to put diagnosis to bed with some sort of... something. Something that analyzes the water in the new growth area of the plant, the source, PH, plug in your environment and growth stage, does a comparison of what the plant has in it vs. what is available to it, and make some decisions.

I'll have to start tinkering.
I'm excited. I'd love to see the solution you map out!
 
RootsRuler

RootsRuler

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263
SWEEEET!

Curious what types of sensors and other meters will be deployed.........
 

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