Coco trees (MPB style lighting)

[blackcat]

Hi all,

We were at first going to design our grow room with MPBs (21kw, 16plants) but we decided to stick with a medium like coco because we don't have experience in water culture and since seriously ill patients depend on our results its better to not take risks in a first grow. So the room wil have a 21kw MPB layout but the medium will be coco. The room dimensions are approx. 18ft x 18ft with 40" centers.

I've grown in soil before , both organically and with synthetics. I'm interested in switching to coco for trees b/c I'm told coco has faster growth and I also like the idea of it being able to be fed often. Also I want to get away from peat due to the problem of flushing big pots of it. I've found peat gets water-logged too easily if you need to flush.

We aren't interested in an automated feed program. In fact, a benefit to the grow is hand-watering as myself and a few of the other patients find great stress relief from getting in amongst the plants and manually feeding them. We aren't opposed to watering two times a day. I've read about people mixing coco 50/50 with hydroton which interests me as that would allow lots of watering every day. Here are some questions I have, mostly having to do with my lack of experience growing trees.

What size pots should we use for MPB style coco trees? (thinking of using smart pots)

What medium is reccomended for watering often? I'm willing to handwater twice a day in full flower. 50/50 coco and hydroton?


anyone know how long approx to veg for MPB style trees in coco?

thx

 

[CelticEBE]

Take a look at mrdizzles run.

 

[blackcat]

thanks will do


i am thinking now coco and perlite according to an article i read saying perlite is a good choice to mix w/ coco.not sure what ratio to use

 

[CelticEBE]

Dizzle does a 4:1 perlite to coco. I'm using Roots Organics premixed coir. Not sure what the ratio is on it but I know it's nice and airy.

 

[mrdizzle]

I really like the perlite, much lighter than hydroton. Im using one bag of 4cuft perlite to one bag of 1.5cuft canna coco

I would think about a drain to waste set up hempy style or a recirculating, where you water 5-6 times a day

I would use 10-20 rubbermaid brutes, you could stack two, the bottom tub catches the water and returns it to the res

 

[squarepusher]

why not run pure coco?

 

[mrdizzle]

IMO pure coco in a large contain holds a ton of water, growth is good, better than soil, slower than DWC. When i used to do 5gal hempys, because I was lazy and didnt like watering every other day I would add more coco on the next run, as my perlite ratio went down, so did my growth and yeilds

the addition of the perlite allows for growth closer to dwc without any of the risks. many tree growers use 100% on a drip. I like the buffer of the small amount of coco

 

[frogeye]

I run 100% coco in pots under 2-3 gallons when the pots start to get bigger(deeper) then i mix (big)perlite but i havent run more then a 70-30 coco perlite mix for even a 10 gallon pot.I just add about an inch or 2 of perlite on the bottom so the water drains better and for seperation.20 gallon coco will give you some big plants a little coco goes a long way.The 70-30 mix is good for me cause its a little more forgiving in the watering dept,holds moisture enough that u have some play if anything unexpected ever happens.Hand waterings good cause you can water each plant to its specific needs ,then again i dont have 21k or 20 gallon pots to contend with lol.

 

[mrdizzle]

^^^ using a mix that basically is impossible to overwater, on a timed system, will give you growth that you just cant get hand watering

 

[Donkdbz]

I would not Recommend 40" on centers.
If doing rows 48" is good puts plants around 33"s from center to bulb.
For x0x0x 60"s +

Spacing really depends on strain. Same with Veg... but you probable looking around 8 weeks from rooted clone.

I am on 2nd tree run with 10 gallon smart pots coco only. I wish I had 15's. The 10's are dry if I forget to water a 2nd time a night.

 

[drknockbootz]

I am about to do the same thing with my setup, once I finish harvesting. Mpb lighting in a chow mix but been thinking about trying the perlite route. Ive done trees before in chow mix and a 18 gal rubbermaid container and they got 4ft wide and 4 ft. So definitely allow enough room. Good luck.
I was wondering what would allow more oxygen to the roots, perlite/coco vs chow(coco croutons/hydroton)?

 

[freelove7]

IMO pure coco in a large contain holds a ton of water, growth is good, better than soil, slower than DWC. When i used to do 5gal hempys, because I was lazy and didnt like watering every other day I would add more coco on the next run, as my perlite ratio went down, so did my growth and yeilds

the addition of the perlite allows for growth closer to dwc without any of the risks. many tree growers use 100% on a drip. I like the buffer of the small amount of coco

Mrdizzle, you stated that you got much better growth in a mix with 4gal of perlite to 1.5gal of coco 2.7/1 ratio. How long did you veg your plants to get trees?

Has anyone else tried a mix with more perlite than coco?
What results did you get to other mixes you tried?

 

[mrdizzle]

I took cuts when I flipped, after two weeks I transplanted them in 4in rockwool, vegged them for 2 weeks under a tek5, then I transplant into a 5gal plastic bag and roll the sides down to make them about 3.5gal bagsthen about 4wks in a 5x5 tent under a 1000w. once I transplanted them I vegged for 2 wks in the room and flipped.

 

[blackcat]

IMO pure coco in a large contain holds a ton of water, growth is good, better than soil, slower than DWC. When i used to do 5gal hempys, because I was lazy and didnt like watering every other day I would add more coco on the next run, as my perlite ratio went down, so did my growth and yeilds

the addition of the perlite allows for growth closer to dwc without any of the risks. many tree growers use 100% on a drip. I like the buffer of the small amount of coco

mrdizzle you got me confused. you say you got better results with more coco and less perlite? but then you say perlite makes for faster growth? can u please clarify for me?

100% drip sounds like something we might want to do but more comfortable atm with a handwatering setup. would 50/50 coco/perlite make a good ratio for watering every day, once a day?

 

[blackcat]

i am thinking 50/50 mix of coco and chunky perlite will be good for watering every other day in 10 gal hempys. how does this sound:

week 1 - drop rooted clone into 50/50 mix in beer cups - veg room
week 2 - 1 gal same as above (not hempy) - veg room
week 3 - 2 gal same as above (not hempy) - veg room
week 4 - 3 gal same as above (not hempy) - veg room
week 5 - 5 gal same as above (not hempy) - veg room
week 6 - transplant into 10gal hempy buckets w/ rez in bottom - flower room
week 7 - still vegging in 10gal - flower room
week 8 - flip to 12/12 - flower room

result 2 lb trees right? hahah. is 50/50 coco / perlite light enough for every other day or every day watering in 10gal hempys? thx we are growing trees

 

[blackcat]

p.s. what do you all think about running an airline with perforations in it through the hempy res to keep it aerated ??? extra DO = faster growth...?

 

[420Gator]

p.s. what do you all think about running an airline with perforations in it through the hempy res to keep it aerated ??? extra DO = faster growth...?

just get a flexible air diffuser, theyre pretty cheap

 

[mrdizzle]

mrdizzle you got me confused. you say you got better results with more coco and less perlite? but then you say perlite makes for faster growth? can u please clarify for me?

100% drip sounds like something we might want to do but more comfortable atm with a handwatering setup. would 50/50 coco/perlite make a good ratio for watering every day, once a day?

I was saying more the more perlite I had the better results

 

[Bud Spleefman]

just get a flexible air diffuser, theyre pretty cheap

Those flexible air difusers used to have a piece of fexible LEAD in them, not sure what they do these days, but I'd check... last I looked at them was like 2001, after doing some DWC and having my plants taste like metal... DOH!

 

[mr.tortoise]

Wow great thread. I was thinking of doing very similar to you blackcat. I was going to root in 50/50 perlite coco, pot into 1 gals and slowly decrease the perlite till finally potting in 100% coco in ten gals. Was hoping then to just water one or two times a day. I have only done just coco, but never have tried big trees. I know another grower that just did lots of perlite and a little peat reserculating drip that really worked well. This thread has me thinking. I like to hand water, but I definetly think an airier mix with more watering would be better.