Questions with H&G Aqua Flakes Formulation for Bloom and pH Stability

  • Thread starter UCMENOW
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
QuarterbackMo

QuarterbackMo

810
93
Ok first and foremost dan from cch20 is a cool ass dude... I just talked to him for an hour about all kinds of shit. He just gave me some serious sound advice I am really about to start taking into consideration.

First about the uc ph problem I've been having.
1.) He told me when I use algen extract I should either
A.) foliar feed it to the plants (which is cool cuz they are in veg)
B.) crown feed it
The reason for this is because the process they use to extract the sea kelp basically uses ph up and the solution itself is very alkaline... As you all know anything the plant doesn't use in the solution stays behind and that sounds like it could be a reason right there in itself.

2.) The main culprit the cal mag...
He told me to cut my calmag to either 1ml per gal or just cut it out completely because of the excess minerals it introduces that h&g is already full of and really doesn't need. Also the fact h&g has a shitload of calmag in it already.

3.) He told me for some reason they can't put their finger on 100% that the uc doesn't need that strong of a nute soup and that I should cut back on my nutes and multi zen to 1/2 to 2/3 strength. He said the uc makes nutrients more available for unknown reasons and therefore do better under a 1/2 strength to 2/3 strength dose. He said it's all about water uptake and that lower doses are better because it allows the plant to uptake the nutrients faster.

I also asked him about flushing and draining he gave me an answer that was pretty common sense but it was that for fast evacuation I should hook the mag pump directly to the bottom drain and pump down like that. He said just keep adding back fresh water and diluting the remaining nutes at the bottom until my ppms go down to nothing. Makes sense to me that's what I do anyway.

He also told me to avoid clogging my drains again that I can safely pruin 10-20% of the roots away with no ill effect he said it will help promote lateral growth by doing it. He recommended once the roots start to grow into the PVC by to pruin them once a week or so. This is only the plants at the end of the run by the return manifold I'm talking about. The other ones I highly doubt would even matter as they probably wouldn't get big enough to stop the water flow.

The last thing he told me was that cutting back on part a and the calmag will help promote bud growth instead of foliage due to the n being lower in the npk ratio and that they are coming out with new lids next month that snap on the bucket and that these lids will have portholes so you can work inside the bucket without having to take the lid off.

I'd say I learned a few things while talking to him for sure... I'm about to start flushing today with r/o water and drip clean nothing else until my ppms are well under 100 and come back with 1/2 strength everything and 1ml of calmag per gallon and we will see what happens. I'm gonna try that first for sure. I'll let you know how it goes by tomorrow or the next day.
 
motherlode

motherlode

@Rolln_J
Supporter
5,524
313
awesome mang - I just typed for like 20 minutes detailing the conversation I had with dan - hit submit and my shit disappeared and I dont feel like retyping it all right now
 
TheBioMaster

TheBioMaster

450
93
Could this have anything to do with the PH issues with HG nutrients since HG and Canna are so close? I found this rather confusing if you look at the response from Canna when a member emailed them with questions about Canna and its use in the UC system.



Quote from post #11 in that thread:

Hello,

If I understand your question, while we recommend using Aqua in re-circulating systems, because of the massive amounts of air injected into your system, maybe Substra is a better option. The pH controls or buffer used in the Aqua line to stabilize pH will react with the CO2 in the air to drive pH up. Substra does not have this carbonate buffer and will react normally. It will still be important that you stay on top of the pH no matter which nutrients you use because both CO2 and Oxygen will react with the individual nutrients and force the pH around with any nutrient package.

Cannazym is a recommended product in all our feed charts and with all nutrients. Each feed chart will have the recommended products shown at the top and then give the correct amount to use.

Hope this helps,

Ralph B.

--------------------------------------------------------
CANNA Research North America
It is not possible to reply to this email directly, please use the contact form on the website if you have more questions.
 
UCMENOW

UCMENOW

1,095
83
Looks like Canna needs to do their home work about the UC......it's a clue with the "carbonate buffer" reference, given it seems it's turning out to be excessive calmag usage with H&G that's causing the pH to be driven up.

Both Canna Aqua and Aqua Flakes are formulated not to need additional cal/mag supps....so it looks as though the presence of excess cal could be the culprit.

What's odd is that Canna Aqua seems to stay stable in the UC, contrary to Canna's presumption otherwise?
 
QuarterbackMo

QuarterbackMo

810
93
Looks like Canna needs to do their home work about the UC......it's a clue with the "carbonate buffer" reference, given it seems it's turning out to be excessive calmag usage with H&G that's causing the pH to be driven up.

Both Canna Aqua and Aqua Flakes are formulated not to need additional cal/mag supps....so it looks as though the presence of excess cal could be the culprit.

What's odd is that Canna Aqua seems to stay stable in the UC, contrary to Canna's presumption otherwise?

I think the same thing I got the same 1ml per gallon or none at all advice from 2 people now I'm about to start flushing when I get home I'll keep you guys updated.
 
N

noone88

726
63
I'm experiencing the opposite with the Canna Aqua line. My plants seem to need more Ca and other trace minerals, such as Magensium and Iron.

It's too hard to tell since the Canna bottles have description of the % of nutrients in their formulas.

Bumping up my CalMag to 7ml/gallon for veg and first 3 weeks of flower has solved my Ca deficiency. I'm still experiencing Iron deficiency in some strains.
 
UCMENOW

UCMENOW

1,095
83
Do you have high humidity? Seems deficiencies are more prevalent with hum over 60%.

Shouldn't be needing to add so much CM to such a well balanced nutrient?
 
M

Mmmmasonite

315
0
Looks like Canna needs to do their home work about the UC......it's a clue with the "carbonate buffer" reference, given it seems it's turning out to be excessive calmag usage with H&G that's causing the pH to be driven up.

Both Canna Aqua and Aqua Flakes are formulated not to need additional cal/mag supps....so it looks as though the presence of excess cal could be the culprit.

What's odd is that Canna Aqua seems to stay stable in the UC, contrary to Canna's presumption otherwise?

I use minimal Cal mag with H&G..maybe 1-2ml per gal. in veg. and no more than 3-5ml. per gal. in flower...Very healthy....The general concensus from most people who use H&G is that you need a little cal mag....but you can use 25% tap water and this works as well....Peace
 
B

bangbang24

22
6
Cant wait to see what the reduction of calmag does... Any chance that if UC likes such low nutes to thrive, it wants that low 1ml/gal of calmag and the feeds at 3, 5, 7ml/gal are blocking uptake of other crucial nutes?
 
UCMENOW

UCMENOW

1,095
83
I use minimal Cal mag with H&G..maybe 1-2ml per gal. in veg. and no more than 3-5ml. per gal. in flower...Very healthy....The general concensus from most people who use H&G is that you need a little cal mag....but you can use 25% tap water and this works as well....Peace

Are you using a water culture system?
 
K

kritical

150
16
im running the H&G line for veg and i am adding 2 ml of cal mag plus from botanicare and that gets me to 150 ppm. the ladies are looking lovely.
 
K

killakron

36
6
i'm rockin H&G, i had my plants in a custom built 25 gal (16 site) current cloner. I start with the manifold for aero and then once the roots start reaching i take the manifold off and put the 500gph pump in the bottom swirling the solution(rather rapid). the cloners plant sites are approx 4" apart for a preveg for the UC(ezcloner IMO did not get the plants and roots large enough for a confident transplant). the roots came in and they were long and then i got the slime, after many sterilizations i was sick of the slime and tried H202 29% full strength sprayed directly on the roots, i did this atleast a dozen times with no ill effects to the plants and slowed the slime spread. I bought H&G aqua flakes and ran it at 1ml per gal. New roots popped out in about 24 hours. the old slimy roots stayed but the new roots grew laterally all around them and exploded pure white unlike before. the plants were in neoprene collars and the root mass was about as wide as softball right from the stem in less than a week. the advanced produced long(12") thin(about as wide as my finger) weak roots that grew slightly cream, H&G grew them super wide, white, and fast. Not sure if the slime got taken out by the h202(hear thats unlikely) or the new nutes just helped the plants health enough to overpower the slime but i think H&G is far superior to my trials with advanced.
 
M

Mmmmasonite

315
0
Are you using a water culture system?

hydroponics is hydroponics ....unless ur runnin coco or aero ....the nute recipe shouldn't change too much....I like the blue bucket system...how bout you?
 
UCMENOW

UCMENOW

1,095
83
Not ran a UC and you're recommending on this threrad?

I can't agree that all hydro is the same bro.....though it's clear you are experienced with recommending nutes, if you've not run water culture than you should refrain from offering up specific recommendations for UC growers.

It may seem strange to someone who's not used the UC to believe that's it's different from other hydro methods but it is.....which is why these discussions are important. Water culture is still a new art/science.....and the UC is even newer.

Kinda figured you'd not used the UC based on your input so far. No disrespect intended to you, just be thoughtful when offering advice on something you've little to no experience with running.

I ran the Green Tree's Multi Flow (Blue Buckets) system for a couple years about a 15 years ago......awesome system, Vince is a cool guy and a true hydro innovator IMO

Operates differently than a UC for sure though.....you can get away with a lot more nutrient hocus pocus in a system like the Multi Flow.
 
K

killakron

36
6
yes these recipies can be quite different as the pumps are pushing the limits of the nutrients. and the flow rates of air and water per plant are higher than any system i've seen.
 
M

Mmmmasonite

315
0
I can't agree that all hydro is the same bro.....though it's clear you are experienced with recommending nutes, if you've not run water culture than you should refrain from offering up specific recommendations for UC growers.

It may seem strange to someone who's not used the UC to believe that's it's different from other hydro methods but it is.....which is why these discussions are important. Water culture is still a new art/science.....and the UC is even newer.

Kinda figured you'd not used the UC based on your input so far. No disrespect intended to you, just be thoughtful when offering advice on something you've little to no experience with running.

I ran the Green Tree's Multi Flow (Blue Buckets) system for a couple years about a 15 years ago......awesome system, Vince is a cool guy and a true hydro innovator IMO

Operates differently than a UC for sure though.....you can get away with a lot more nutrient hocus pocus in a system like the Multi Flow.

I have run and have many friends who run under current.....Water is water...If you know what you are doing then it should be relatively similar...If you know what's up..... you can tweek anything in your regimen to make it work...It's all gardening...It's not rocket science.
 
K

killakron

36
6
not rocket science, but it is plant phisiology, water chemistry, and advanced nutirent assimilation among many other things. but it can be almost as advanced if you want to get that deep. and it can be as easy as buying a model rocket at the hobby shop. with results respective to knowledge many times.
 
K

killakron

36
6
as far as pH stability, i have not found this to be the case. I used Advanced, GH, botanicare PBP, and DM. And my H&G not only is outperforming those for me, but it is way more stable and clean, requiring less than 5% as much scrub and clean work as PBP. I've been extremely happy with these nutrients, and if you shop around they are really cheap, i bought 20 liters of A&B for 153$, and 500ml of excel(they're most expensive product by far treats 500 gal) for 96$. Not to mention they are far more concentrated than any other of the nutrients i have tried and cheaper per bottle with better more stable and cleaner res and either i'm getting alot better of they bumped my yield by 30%!! over my PBP run and 13% on my last run with advanced using a fucking retarded amount of additives. Thanks H&G you guys are gonna be in my garden for many years. peace farmers
 
QuarterbackMo

QuarterbackMo

810
93
as far as pH stability, i have not found this to be the case. I used Advanced, GH, botanicare PBP, and DM. And my H&G not only is outperforming those for me, but it is way more stable and clean, requiring less than 5% as much scrub and clean work as PBP. I've been extremely happy with these nutrients, and if you shop around they are really cheap, i bought 20 liters of A&B for 153$, and 500ml of excel(they're most expensive product by far treats 500 gal) for 96$. Not to mention they are far more concentrated than any other of the nutrients i have tried and cheaper per bottle with better more stable and cleaner res and either i'm getting alot better of they bumped my yield by 30%!! over my PBP run and 13% on my last run with advanced using a fucking retarded amount of additives. Thanks H&G you guys are gonna be in my garden for many years. peace farmers

PH is staying stable for you huh? My ph stays stable in my mom setup but not in the UC for some reason... what are you using tap or r/o water? What other additives are you using? What did you do exactly when you put your UC together? Did you use Algen Extract? Did you have a film or any light leaks? I can't figure out why I can't keep my ph stable... it has been under control but thats because of me not the hg. I am starting to think the film the algen extract left on my buckets is anerobic and breaking out or something I can't think of what else it could possibly be.
 
K

killakron

36
6
i use tap that i let circulate for 36 hours then do a bit of phing from 8 down to 6.8 and another 12 hours then i mix A mix for 10 let sit for 10 B mix for 10 sit for 10, then pH again to 4.5-5 depndind on amount of nute concentrate, low concentrate i adjust lower because they drift easier, then add my additives. they mix for a day and drift up to 5.5 then i put the nutes in the UC, it will then drift up to 6 in about 5-8 days, and slowly drift to 6.2 by the time the nutes need changed weather 10 days or 25 but never goes above 6.3. tho if i was in flower i'd only preadjust to 7.5 because more nutes will bring it down naturally. I have algen but i havent been using it since i've been hearing not to use in UC unless you foliar and the down side of it sounds like what you have goin on. i alternate between magic green and tea for foliar, and only foliar once per week, so the plants get MG and tea foliar every other week. My UC is custom 6 site with 25 gals absolutley no light leaks, i even bought root guards, rockin 1500GPH water flow to each plant, 4500GPH in pump totals, no air pump(I know it sounds crazy). i remove net pot lids to crown feed(no run off), i brew a light tea (36 hours brew for bacteria dom(veg), 18 hours for fungi dom(flower))with aquashield, RE, ZHO, alaskan humus, Sub B, florlicious plus, seaweed, humic acid, and at the end of brew about 2 hours before i feed i add some GW. i know theres alot of overlap in the tea recipe i just have the stuff and like to be thorough. I have a custom blend in my net pots so i can get alot of life in there, theres hydroton, coco, and RW grow cubes in different layers and mixes. as far as when to crown feed, it really depends on what you have living in there and what your media is, if you want alot of microlife i'd put a cover on it to keep humidity up a bit, and mix media to have wet spots for the beasties that need to stay wet.... think thats pretty much it, let me know if you have more ???'s i'm wicked tired, went creek surfing today :) epic. peace good luck
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom