the beach house

Beachwalker said:

I'm not going to be telling you to cut back on phosphorus. I'm only going to suggest how I used it to get great results

I don't know anything about koolbloom but I know it's not necessary if you're trying to save a couple bucks.

The big factor I've seen is light intensity; eg: when I run my 1000watt HPS at 600w there's a noticeable difference in density

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Ya I'll be running full 100% on this new lamp so I'm hoping for them to be nice & tight through out. I've got the shit now and I don't use that much at a time. Gh recommends up to 3 tsp of bloom per/gal during flower I only use 2 and add the kool bloom I don't know if it helps but I believe the last grow I used it had tighter buds than the grow I didn't use it at all. There may be many factors that play into making tight buds in one grow and not so great in another and I can't say 100% that Kool Bloom is responsible or not. What I'm getting out of this is that less is better than more.

PipeCarver said:

I just read a piece on that and you're talking the lucas formula, chemcris linked me to this
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm

I've always done all 3 grow micro bloom in small doses gradually increasing to the recommended numbers 1tsp-1tsp-1tsp/gal and I stay there until I'm going to flip them. Then I double up the bloom to 10 mil/gal and add the Kool Bloom starting at 2.5 then moving it up gradually to 10 mil /gal until week 7 where i ween them back to 5mil each/gal then week 7.5 drop them all and water only til they're done.
Then I come here and see the plants and different methods of growing, I want to take the best and leave the rest of the information behind so as not to clutter my grey matter anymore than it all ready is. I have lots of small pieces of info lodge in my head and that gets me in trouble when I think I know something I don't.

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I am pretty sure 1-1-1 is not the directions. And the lucas formula uses base and bloom only which is the opposite of what im trying to do.

I did fine at 25% to 50% directions in multiple nute lines i tried. The results were better with no bloom bottle every time. I tested plants for a year with this. And in my system we could sample every week or two a new or different strain. Strain did not matter. All plants properly fed with a grow nute yielded higher and were cleaner burning and more potent and complex.

It also added at least two weeks to all plants flowering time. Pk heavy products kill the plant off sooner.

The nitrogen it actually needs keeps them healthier through the cycle.

PipeCarver said:

Ya I'll be running full 100% on this new lamp so I'm hoping for them to be nice & tight through out. I've got the shit now and I don't use that much at a time. Gh recommends up to 3 tsp of bloom per/gal during flower I only use 2 and add the kool bloom I don't know if it helps but I believe the last grow I used it had tighter buds than the grow I didn't use it at all. There may be many factors that play into making tight buds in one grow and not so great in another and I can't say 100% that Kool Bloom is responsible or not. What I'm getting out of this is that less is better than more.

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What I did was use the 1-1-1 all through veg

As soon as they went into 12 / 12 I used 2-2-2 for approximately one month

Then for the last half of Bloom I used 1-2-3
(Gro/Micro/Bloom)

Easy peasy! Not being one to try to reinvent the wheel I go by the premise that the chemist and scientist at GH have already done the hard work for me. I never changed it for 3 years and I had great success with the GH product, occasionally I would add some Calimagic if a plant seem to be lacking but that's all I've ever added to this regimen, good luck!

Beachwalker said:

View attachment 909131

What I did was use the 1-1-1 all through veg

As soon as they went into 12 / 12 I used 2-2-2 for approximately one month

Then for the last half of Bloom I used 1-2-3
(Gro/Micro/Bloom)

Easy peasy! Not being one to try to reinvent the wheel I go by the premise that the chemist and scientist at GH have already done the hard work for me. I never changed it for 3 years and I had great success with the GH product, occasionally I would add some Calimagic if a plant seem to be lacking but that's all I've ever added to this regimen, good luck!

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Well, that's what I've been doing, almost I'm just going 1-1-1 = 5/5/5 in Canadian lol I just upped it into flower to 1-1-2 + 1 Kool Bloom and its 0-10-10 so it doesn't overload the phosphorus if I only add 1 and not 2tsp micro as the formula above recommends during flower. I thought the nitrogen was supposed to be cut back as well to control the stretch and that they don't need as much nitrogen in the flowering stage.( but again brain cells may be corrupted and may need a reboot)

If I follow their instructions exactly I over feed my plants & go through to nutes too quickly so I cut back and other than the low ph issue they've done fine. I was only thinking of trying to replicate Dirtbags results but that obviously isn't going to work now. It just scrambled my brain cells and caused confusion. I read about the lucas formula and cutting out micro all together that would save a couple bucks a month if nothing else.

PipeCarver said:

Well, that's what I've been doing, almost I'm just going 1-1-1 = 5/5/5 in Canadian lol I just upped it into flower to 1-1-2 + 1 Kool Bloom and its 0-10-10 so it doesn't overload the phosphorus if I only add 1 and not 2tsp micro as the formula above recommends during flower. I thought the nitrogen was supposed to be cut back as well to control the stretch and that they don't need as much nitrogen in the flowering stage.( but again brain cells may be corrupted and may need a reboot)

If I follow their instructions exactly I over feed my plants & go through to nutes too quickly so I cut back and other than the low ph issue they've done fine. I was only thinking of trying to replicate Dirtbags results but that obviously isn't going to work now. It just scrambled my brain cells and caused confusion. I read about the lucas formula and cutting out micro all together that would save a couple bucks a month if nothing else.

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I know you're thinking about phosphorus now, but like I said I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel and I don't feel phosphorus causes an issue, but you seem to be in mindset to prove it for yourself so let us know what you find out

Probably should have added above that with about 2 weeks left I cut the 1100ppm in about half, and for the last week or so it only gets water, so I don't sweat flushing, phosphorus or any of that, I dry and cure properly and my smoke is smooth and if white ash actually means anything it's white as snow

Ps. I forget exactly offhand but I think the Lucas formula uses the micro. If you want to save a few bucks check out the Masterblend, price is why I use it or else I would have stayed with GH cuz it's a great product

And when I say I feed 1-1-1 all through veg I don't feed anything in the ffof soil for about a month, after that I start with the newts

I'm showing you how I did it this way because I think you're starting to complicate it for yourself; and I simply followed the bottle, only adjustment was the PPM, not the formulas ratio

Beachwalker said:

So today the whole veg tent went back to my ole faithful Schultz 20-20-20 +cal/mag at 400 PPM, this stuff grew some delicious tomatoes this summer
View attachment 907639

I'm still using Masterblend at 870 PPM In Bloom, however the veg plants that went into bloom this morning are going to possibly be fed the Schultz at 800 PPM (including cal-mag) for maybe 1st month or so, I'm not sure yet but they'll be fed at lights-on tonight so I'll decide by then
View attachment 907640

And so we continue on in my bold adventure to get my light off the ceiling!

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UPDATE:

So these were fed either the night before or the day they went into bloom last Wednesday. I haven't watered them since! my temperatures are 66° dark 72 light and I know they're making Roots now but still?

I've even added a lizard heater of 75watts but I think I might have to add a second one to get the temps up to get some growth going

Still battling to get clones! I bleached and soaked the hell out of everything involved in the bubble cloner and I'm going back to that next set. I don't know what went wrong with it all at once but I'm not killing it with this tray & done either?

I've gotten a few out of it but I don't know why I go through periods where I'll get a hundred percent from either the tray or the bubble cloner and then all of a sudden it will just stop: and nothings changed?? That's the maddening part! kinda freaks me out (& pisses me off too) it's not like I need clones right now but I want to get rid of some mother plants that are overgrown, so hoping to get this mystery fixed soon

Black dog in the front one week in bloom; Black dog in the back 1 or 2 weeks from Harvest



Its runoff today was 750 / 6.5 but she battled with a higher pH from the excess of dolomite most of the grow, not a heavy yielder anyway but the high pH didn't help for sure :/

About the black dog; this plant straight stinks! I wouldn't try a whole set of these unless my filter was new. what I get from it is a heavy smell of black cherries in some kind of fuel, and the smoke is of great quality as well

Few of the Indian bubble gum, lots tops! In the next week or two as things finish they'll be spread out


This Bubba Kush × Indiana bubblegum cross is good smoke, it cuts right through on one or two hits and it's a very up, happy high, it doesn't last forever but well worth it to me

Beachwalker said:

UPDATE:

So these were fed either the night before or the day they went into bloom last Wednesday. I haven't watered them since! my temperatures are 66° dark 72 light and I know they're making Roots now but still?

I've even added a lizard heater of 75watts but I think I might have to add a second one to get the temps up to get some growth going

Still battling to get clones! I bleached and soaked the hell out of everything involved in the bubble cloner and I'm going back to that next set. I don't know what went wrong with it all at once but I'm not killing it with this tray & done either?

I've gotten a few out of it but I don't know why I go through periods where I'll get a hundred percent from either the tray or the bubble cloner and then all of a sudden it will just stop: and nothings changed?? That's the maddening part! kinda freaks me out (& pisses me off too) it's not like I need clones right now but I want to get rid of some mother plants that are overgrown, so hoping to get this mystery fixed soon

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Just a question for my own knowledge. Did you use a rooting hormone?

Beachwalker said:

UPDATE:

So these were fed either the night before or the day they went into bloom last Wednesday. I haven't watered them since! my temperatures are 66° dark 72 light and I know they're making Roots now but still?

I've even added a lizard heater of 75watts but I think I might have to add a second one to get the temps up to get some growth going

Still battling to get clones! I bleached and soaked the hell out of everything involved in the bubble cloner and I'm going back to that next set. I don't know what went wrong with it all at once but I'm not killing it with this tray & done either?

I've gotten a few out of it but I don't know why I go through periods where I'll get a hundred percent from either the tray or the bubble cloner and then all of a sudden it will just stop: and nothings changed?? That's the maddening part! kinda freaks me out (& pisses me off too) it's not like I need clones right now but I want to get rid of some mother plants that are overgrown, so hoping to get this mystery fixed soon

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are you having temp fluctuations?

Aqua Man said:

Just a question for my own knowledge. Did you use a rooting hormone?

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Yes I tried it with clonex and with white rooting powder but had the same issue both times

Edit: this time in the bubble cloner I'm not using any hormone

newh said:

are you having temp fluctuations?

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No she's locked at 80° with a inkbird and heating mat

took the Dome off today I'm wondering if just opening the vents fully isn't enough after four or five days

I'll give it the rest of the week and then will get the bubble cloner going one way or the other

So I'm about to order a second base for my reptile heating bulb thing I don't know what they're called can't get my temps up today, just barely making 70 in veg now, not into turning the house temperature up it's 68° and perfect through the whole house except for that cold freaking room, coldest room in the house of course :/



Heats up some late in the day when whatever little Sun there is any more gets around to that side, but I've been reading my VPD chart and I'm going to have to up the temps a bit

I used to use a radiator type heater in there but I'd rather use two 75 watt heaters than one 700 watt radiator $$

I'm not trying to make them toasty and comfortable, just trying to provide an adequate environment



I think a second 75 watt reptile heater will give me the few more degrees I want? Came in a two pack but I've got to order another base it's always something! :/

Beachwalker said:

Yes I tried it with clonex and with white rooting powder but had the same issue both times

Edit: this time in the bubble cloner I'm not using any hormone

No she's locked at 80° with a inkbird and heating mat

took the Dome off today I'm wondering if just opening the vents fully isn't enough after four or five days

I'll give it the rest of the week and then will get the bubble cloner going one way or the other

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Interesting I have been thinking lately about the rooting hormone and how it may affect top growth. Plants like people regulate hormones or at least hormones are affected by environmental factors. It only makes sense that using rooting hormone will slow top growth. Im thinking it could be more detrimental than good in the long run in terms of growth. Yes you get more roots faster but that equals less top growth and how long does it actually take the plant to shift hormones back when rooting hormone is still in the media. Also root to shoot ratio I'm sure also plays a role in fast healthy growth. How long before it's exhausted and the plant begins normal growth? I know @MIMedGrower has some opinions on using it also.

Tldr: I'm starting to think using a rooting hormone is not only not needed but could cause more negative effects than positive. They only benefit I can see to using it is if you are having trouble actually getting the clones to survive. Even then I would say grower error.

Aqua Man said:

Interesting I have been thinking lately about the rooting hormone and how it may affect top growth. Plants like people regulate hormones or at least hormones are affected by environmental factors. It only makes sense that using rooting hormone will slow top growth. Im thinking it could be more detrimental than good in the long run in terms of growth. Yes you get more roots faster but that equals less top growth and how long does it actually take the plant to shift hormones back when rooting hormone is still in the media. Also root to shoot ratio I'm sure also plays a role in fast healthy growth. How long before it's exhausted and the plant begins normal growth? I know @MIMedGrower has some opinions on using it also.

Tldr: I'm starting to think using a rooting hormone is not only not needed but could cause more negative effects than positive. They only benefit I can see to using it is if you are having trouble actually getting the clones to survive. Even then I would say grower error.

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May well be an era I'm making but for the life of me I have no idea what it is?? I didn't change anything from the run before when I got 100%?? Believe me I'm searching, I even tried the root riots in the tray and Dome to see if anything would happen?! I got two or three out of that whole tray although I haven't given up on them yet

All I know is this happen to me at about a year-and-a-half after I started growing again too, and I lost a few decent cuts including an awsome Cali Connection LA OG (raskal), still have a jar or two put away for myself, that's one cut I would buy again if I had the room and time

When I set up the bubble cloner I'm going to use some hydrogen peroxide this time, I think it's 5 ml to a gallon off hand, you would probably know that? And I'm going to keep it at 80 degrees no dome 6.5 and give it 18 hrs. of light, I'll put the progress up when I get it going this weekend

Beachwalker said:

May well be an era I'm making but for the life of me I have no idea what it is?? I didn't change anything from the run before when I got 100%?? Believe me I'm searching, I even tried the root riots in the tray and Dome to see if anything would happen?! I got two or three out of that whole tray although I haven't given up on them yet

All I know is this happen to me at about a year-and-a-half after I started growing again too, and I lost a few decent cuts including an awsome Cali Connection LA OG (raskal), still have a jar or two put away for myself, that's one cut I would buy again if I had the room and time

When I set up the bubble cloner I'm going to use some hydrogen peroxide this time, I think it's 5 ml to a gallon off hand, you would probably know that? And I'm going to keep it at 80 degrees no dome 6.5 and give it 18 hrs. of light, I'll put the progress up when I get it going this weekend

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Depends on the h2o2 strength. 29% I think is 1ml per gal. But in terms of the dome I feel they are a must until ya get roots

Aqua Man said:

Depends on the h2o2 strength. 29% I think is 1ml per gal. But in terms of the dome I feel they are a must until ya get roots

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I took it off because I was seeing signs that it was staying too wet they sit in a quarter inch of water so the root Riot itself never dries up

I'm using the drugstore strength hydrogen peroxide I'm sure it was 5ml now that I think of it but I will check it before I put it in

Far as the rest of it I don't get it but I'm going to keep at it it'll work out I think this run I might break this jinx

One last thought I was considering starting them in my seed starting mix which is 2to1 perlite vermiculite only I would mix it at fifty fifty, they sit, domed, in a little water at the proper temperature and they self water them self if this bubble clone attempt fails I'll give that a try next

Beachwalker said:

I took it off because I was seeing signs that it was staying too wet they sit in a quarter inch of water so the root Riot itself never dries up

I'm using the drugstore strength hydrogen peroxide I'm sure it was 5ml now that I think of it but I will check it before I put it in

Far as the rest of it I don't get it but I'm going to keep at it it'll work out I think this run I might break this jinx

One last thought I was considering starting them in my seed starting mix which is 2to1 perlite vermiculite only I would mix it at fifty fifty, they sit, domed, in a little water at the proper temperature and they self water them self if this bubble clone attempt fails I'll give that a try next

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I think that could be the problem. I never have resting water if my jiffy pellets start to dry a bit I just pick em up and most them. They need very little moisture I call it damp. Most of the water they take in will be through the leaves until they have roots. Soils will work but it's important to have it packed tight to the stem to prevent air pruning.

I don't use hydrogen peroxide bit something rings a bell about not using the 3% from the pharmacy I think it contains other additives. Food grade is what I believe is recommended.

Also immediately after cutting set em in a glass of water. The stems have are hollow in the middle where the sap flows and you want to prevent air getting in. Then when ready to plant make sure the soil is tight against the stem.

The directions on the rapid rooters recommended letting it sit in about a quarter inch? That's how I started and work fine for a year-and-a-half and then boom one day nothing?

But this happened in the bubble cloner recently too? I went from a handful of runs at 100% to 0 two or three sets in a row so there's something more going on that's why I'm cleaning and bleaching everything heavy

I am getting to the point where I'm going to stick a few Cuts in a beer mug and put them in the back corner of the tent and see what happens lol.. it's something weird, I haven't figured it out but I will

Half the black dogs got some weird Leaf curl this time. none of the other five strains did just them but I also got a rooted plant from the black dogs too?



Honestly this is a bit of a puzzle

@Aqua Man

Things have changed...