PH A Basic explanation

Aqua Man · Jul 8, 2020

Frankster said:
Here's an interesting read on this subject: It involves enzymatic formation of acidic by-products, and pH buffers.

They can be added to the reaction mixture in 2 different forms: organic soluble and solid-state (insoluble). The aim of this chapter is to present the practical methods for utilisation of these novel buffers with biocatalysts in organic media.

This is some cutting edge shit....
Solid state buffers

These buffer pairs exist as crystalline solids which exchange H+ with Na+ (in control of aH+/aNa+) or accept/donate H+ and Cl- together (in control of aH+.aCl-) in order to control the protonation state of the enzyme. In general, a zwitterion along with the appropriate salt is used since the pair must be insoluble in the organic reaction mixture. Unlike the organic soluble buffers, each buffer pair will set a fixed value of the relevent ionisation parameter, regardless of the quantities of each form used. Also, they can be used in a number of solvents since their ionisation is independent of the nature of the solvent.

The usefulness of a range of solid state buffers for control of pH+pCl (e.g. Lys/Lys.HCl) has been shown for immobilised subtilisin in hexane and toluene (2). Similarly, pH-pNa solid state buffer pairs have recently proved successful for reactions in both polar and non-polar solvents with different forms of the same enzyme

the introduction of solid state Na+/H+ exchange buffers. These materials, insoluble in the reaction medium(?), effectively function as chemical pH-stats giving precise control of an enzyme protonation state throughout the reaction pathway even were acidi

I'm suggesting that azomite might represent a "shotgun" approach to doing just that...
If techniques like this could be "custom tailored" for cannabis, the results could be phenomenal

Nope again only soluble elements affect ph. They are insoluble until broken down by enzymes. Which is exactly the case with organics. Insoluble organics are broken down slowly by enzymes and then can be dissolved and taken up by plants. This process uses insoluble media that's broken down by enzymes so it is not leached and provides a constant buffer providing the enzymes produced by bacteria or artificial are there.

Aqua Man · Jul 8, 2020

Cheekiestsauce said:
I used tap water for my entire grow and never even checked PPM once. I just looked up online what it was and well.. ITS HIGH! but my plants seemed fine? this is the chart I was given for the tap water in my community
Plant Effluent Water Hardness (mg CaCO3) for 2019

Month mg/L CaCO 3 grains/gallon
January 246 17.2
February 256 17.9
March 261 18.3
April 210 14.7
May 193 13.5
June 183 12.8
July 182 12.8
August 195 13.7
September 199 13.9
October 209 14.6
November 217 15.2
December 227 15.9
Average 215 15.0

Yeah that's not bad. I would use it. Prob would cut it with RO but I can't see why it won't work.

Frankster · Jul 9, 2020

Aqua Man said:
Nope again only soluble elements affect ph. They are insoluble until broken down by enzymes. Which is exactly the case with organics. Insoluble organics are broken down slowly by enzymes and then can be dissolved and taken up by plants. This process uses insoluble media that's broken down by enzymes so it is not leached and provides a constant buffer providing the enzymes produced by bacteria or artificial are there.

Yes, they are converted, and eventually absorbed. If the element in question has an OH- attached to it, (calcium hydroxide for instance) should bind with the extra H+ creating water as a by product. (I believe) Thus, a net neutralizing effect on H+ accumulation. (acidity) To the degree it contributes to net pH is questionable, (obviously not much) because one would need to know the molar mass of H+ ions being created, and then measure the rate of uptake of each element. (in molar masses) Obviously not a simple task, but anything that makes an impact, should be measurable.

That said

Frankster · Jul 9, 2020

Here's exactly what's in the azomite: From a geological standpoint it's a volcanic ash deposit (It's taken from two hill tops in Utah)

Feldspars (KAlSi3O8 - NaAlSi3O8 - CaAl2Si2O8) SiO4 silicon-oxygen tetrahedra, with each oxygen being shared between two tetrahedra, giving an overall formula SiO2. Calcite is a calcium carbonate (CaCO3). Montmorillonite is a hydrated sodium calcium aluminium magnesium silicate hydroxide (Na,Ca)0.33(Al,Mg)2(Si4O10)(OH)2·nH2O. Potassium, iron, and other cations are common substitutes, the exact ratio of cations varies with source.

It's got like 70 other trace minerals.

It's imported to places like Malaysia and China, to replace it's soil productivity, for rice farming. It can increase there production by 3x in some area's.

Aqua Man · Jul 9, 2020

Frankster said:
Yes, they are converted, and eventually absorbed. If the element in question has an OH- attached to it, (calcium hydroxide for instance) should bind with the extra H+ creating water as a by product. (I believe) Thus, a net neutralizing effect on H+ accumulation. (acidity) To the degree it contributes to net pH is questionable, (obviously not much) because one would need to know the molar mass of H+ ions being created, and then measure the rate of uptake of each element. (in molar masses) Obviously not a simple task, but anything that makes an impact, should be measurable.

That said

Yeah its a very complex topic. That's why I left it out. Hell I still don't fully understand it but working on it.

Glassdub · Jul 9, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
Funny you mention nutrients being acidic. Foliage pro is not acidic enough to counter my well water if i add even 2.5 ml of protekt (silica). So now i have been adding 1 ml ph down to 2.5 ml protekt and 5 ml foliage pro to be about 6.3ph. And the pro mix stayed there to the end.

I've found about 2ml per gal of Foliage pro drives the pH down .5 Protekt does nothing, 2.5? wow, I won't go over 1ml since I fucked my plants up early on.

MIMedGrower · Jul 9, 2020

Glassdub said:
I've found about 2ml per gal of Foliage pro drives the pH down .5 Protekt does nothing, 2.5? wow, I won't go over 1ml since I fucked my plants up early on.

The directions call for 5 ml I didnt know any better its new to me so i used half strength. It has been determined that cannabis uses silica as a macro nutrient.

Our waters alkalinity determines how much it is affected by nutrients and such. So we may have different results.

Glassdub · Jul 9, 2020

Oa.ahhu said:
I would try out something that wont raise your ppm when you're adjusting the ph.

Like? that's what I hate about Potassium bicarbonate or Sodium bicarbonate to buffer my dehumidifier runoff water, at a 1/4 tsp a gal about 200-300 ppm.

MIMedGrower · Jul 9, 2020

Glassdub said:
Like? that's what I hate about Potassium bicarbonate or Sodium bicarbonate to buffer my dehumidifier runoff water, at a 1/4 tsp a gal about 200-300 ppm.

That is very high. Its usually buffer to 150 ppm (.3 ec)

And may be better to use cal mag for a better water nutrient profile.

Glassdub · Jul 9, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
The directions call for 5 ml I didnt know any better its new to me so i used half strength. It has been determined that cannabis uses silica as a macro nutrient.

Our waters alkalinity determines how much it is affected by nutrients and such. So we may have different results.

I've been being real gentle been using 1 ml Pro-TeKt, 1 ml Mag-Pro 2.5 Foliage-Pro, the last couple waterings with a PPM 563 (including the water buffer of 200-300), thinking of uping the Foliage-Pro to 3 next water.

Glassdub · Jul 9, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
That is very high. Its usually buffer to 150 ppm (.3 ec)

And may be better to use cal mag for a better water nutrient profile.

I didn't know cal mag was a buffer, I know I'm pushing the limits (300 being that), but the water is pretty acidic running the mid 3 range.

MIMedGrower · Jul 9, 2020

Glassdub said:
I've been being real gentle been using 1 ml Pro-TeKt, 1 ml Mag-Pro 2.5 Foliage-Pro, the last couple waterings with a PPM 563 (including the water buffer of 200-300), thinking of uping the Foliage-Pro to 3 next water.

With my 150 ppm well water, 2.5 ml protekt, 5 ml foliage pro and 1 ml ph down (gen hydro drops) i get 1.1 ec. or 550 ppm. And foliage pro has the proper calcium and mag amounts. So if you are fertilizing i would recomend you try what i did. Which is actually 50% of max directions on the bottle and skip the calcium carbonate.

When not fertilizing and water only i would only add 100-150 ppm to buffer and it might not even be needed with regular fertilization.

Every grow is different so all this is just a guideline.

Glassdub · Jul 9, 2020

Oa.ahhu said:
I've never paid anyone to fix anything if I don't know I'm gonna damn sure spend 12 hours understanding some blueprints or a diagram. The more I read the more I understand.

Must be nice, I'm just not wired that way, I'm happy if I can fix a cabinet hinge or leaky faucet, I know my limits which is not intensely handy.

MIMedGrower · Jul 9, 2020

Glassdub said:
I didn't know cal mag was a buffer, I know I'm pushing the limits (300 being that), but the water is pretty acidic running the mid 3 range.

Ok i see where you are coming from now.

Distilled, filtered or ro water has no elements in it so the ph will instantly take on the ph of what it contacts. In other words it doesnt matter at all.

But cal mag plus from botanicare for example is designed to mimic perfect tap water. With calciim nitrate Magnesium iron and trace elements. So 150 ppm gives a full profile. But even 150 ppm water doeant need to be ph’d. It is so low in elements that it will still take on the ph of what it contacts.

And i say again foliage pro is a complete nute. It would not need any cal mag added to be complete.

And your water has nothing in it that would alter mediim ph.

So water only unadjusted is fine in limed potting soil and the nutes have everything you need. Well with the silica bottle i mean.

I hope i am clear here.

MIMedGrower · Jul 9, 2020

Glassdub said:
Must be nice, I'm just not wired that way, I'm happy if I can fix a cabinet hinge or leaky faucet, I know my limits which is not intensely handy.

Yeah im not a huge fix it guy either. Much of my growroom is held together with gorilla tape.

Glassdub · Jul 9, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
I still think almost every ph comment for soil grows is actually excess nute buildup.

New growers need a ph and ppm meter. Without both measurements we are just guessing.

My pH meter is incredibly flaky, has me pulling my hair out more often than not my ppm has been my freind with no issues.

Glassdub · Jul 9, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
Ok i see where you are coming from now.

Distilled, filtered or ro water has no elements in it so the ph will instantly take on the ph of what it contacts. In other words it doesnt matter at all.

But cal mag plus from botanicare for example is designed to mimic perfect tap water. With calciim nitrate Magnesium iron and trace elements. So 150 ppm gives a full profile. But even 150 ppm water doeant need to be ph’d. It is so low in elements that it will still take on the ph of what it contacts.

And i say again foliage pro is a complete nute. It would not need any cal mag added to be complete.

And your water has nothing in it that would alter mediim ph.

So water only unadjusted is fine in limed potting soil and the nutes have everything you need. Well with the silica bottle i mean.

I hope i am clear here.

So watering at 3pH is ok, I tend to get this:

when I go searching so I get conflicted. I've been loosely following the ratios of the Dyna-Gro feed chart at about 1/4 rate I got a small bottle early so I had it to use, had read a little goes a long way so I kept the ratio pretty low.

Glassdub · Jul 9, 2020

I really need to talk to my brother who is a geologist, farmer & beekeeper I think he might help drill this home.

Oa.ahhu · Jul 9, 2020

Glassdub said:
Must be nice, I'm just not wired that way, I'm happy if I can fix a cabinet hinge or leaky faucet, I know my limits which is not intensely handy.

There has been enough struggle for me to attempt to tackle anything i see in front of me.
Rah

Oa.ahhu · Jul 9, 2020

Glassdub said:
So watering at 3pH is ok, I tend to get this:

when I go searching so I get conflicted. I've been loosely following the ratios of the Dyna-Gro feed chart at about 1/4 rate I got a small bottle early so I had it to use, had read a little goes a long way so I kept the ratio pretty low.

As long as youre solution is between 5.5->8.0 in soil and you have good base youre PROBABLY going to be okay.

PH A Basic explanation

Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

Aqua Man

Glassdub

MIMedGrower

Glassdub

MIMedGrower

Glassdub

Glassdub

MIMedGrower

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MIMedGrower

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Glassdub

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Oa.ahhu

Oa.ahhu

Latest posts

Month	mg/L CaCO 3	grains/gallon
January	246	17.2
February	256	17.9
March	261	18.3
April	210	14.7
May	193	13.5
June	183	12.8
July	182	12.8
August	195	13.7
September	199	13.9
October	209	14.6
November	217	15.2
December	227	15.9
Average	215	15.0