Let's See Your Frostiest Flowers

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Edinburgh

Edinburgh

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Week 9 or 63 days from sprouts, am seeing about 10% amber so am forced to flush out with cold water, the water will turn pistols and stop what little foxtailing there is, will chop in 1 week at day 70 right on time, Warning! If you run this strain oder control is a must, white flower, was able to get 1 large bag of ffoc bc there rationing it bc of flu 19, have 3 bears on the way, bear og x triangle kush will run next.
 
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Frankster

Frankster

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Say if I wanted to try and force the average hybrid say like an Original Glue GG4 to produce pollen using light disruptions and succeed, the seeds from that pollen on that plant and any others I introduce it to will be as stable as the parents? I'm spending WAYYY too much money on seeds! 🤣🤔

Here is a GG#4 (Bag Seed) from Have a Heart foundation doing exactly that, except it's had a little more help than just the light regime, but yes, it's entirely possible. With this one, I only pollinated the bottom third of the plant, actually. I'm breeding it back to itself. I'm breeding a nice Grape Ape photoperiod to it, I'm breeding the GG#4 also to my whorled phyllotaxy White Widow, and also to my Frankenstein autos.

I know this is a badass strain, no question in my mind whatsoever.

I'm also doing the Grape Ape x Frankenstein this time around. I've got a Grandaddy Purple photoperiod flowering shortly also, so I'll probably hit that one with her as well. There all going to produce feminized seeds all around, so I my as well do as many different varieties as I can.

Putting the GA pollens on this should create a very interesting beast also, because it should hold most of it's GG#4 trait's, but the GA is a very interesting choice, so that's the one I'm really looking forward too out of the bunch.

I'm just hitting things lightly along the bottoms, because I don't want a ton of seeds this time, I don't think.
 
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Frankster

Frankster

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I don’t mess with femmed seeds my bro. And imo the femmed seeds is what is wrong with breeding today. Cramming bottlenecks g strains with fems especially gg4.I’d much rather find a passive male to pollinated clones with.
Now we have the middle weight champ of the ufc growing a bitch tit which the doc said it’s from smoking to much femmed weed lmao.
I wouldn't do it for successive generations, but doing it one time doesn't seem to lose much, if anything. I think the genetic mutations occur from doing it over and over again, or doing it weakly or ineffectively. If it's done correctly, ie, a healthy thriving plant, and the seeds are allowed to fully mature, and the quality was there to begin with, you should have good results.

If I take a specimen from itself, by doing female to female, the next generation I do is a back-cross with itself (in this case it will be the male from this GG#4xGA) in a "male" form, picking 1 out of a half dozen or more of itself, then breeding it with 2 prime females. Bam! done! It will be stabilized from that point forward. (75% GG#4 x 25% GA) From there you can further isolate the GA genes, if you want.

All of the genetic codes are in the females, males only pass along a few traits that can be sorted out at a later date.


  • All the traits of interest on the female selection can be seen or documented, including: growth and development rates; flower characteristics such as size, quantity, smell and color; as well as potential for accumulating THC or CBD, and terpenes. This cannot be said of male plants.
  • Male plants can only express growth and development traits visually. All other bud traits are hidden in their genetic makeup and are not expressed for selection. You can select for pollen sac size and density, but the data so far is inconclusive on how these traits translate to female flower size and density.
 
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Trustfall

Trustfall

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All the traits of interest on the female selection can be seen or documented, including: growth and development rates; flower characteristics such as size, quantity, smell and color; as well as potential for accumulating THC or CBD, and terpenes. This cannot be said of male plants.
  • Male plants can only express growth and development traits visually. All other bud traits are hidden in their genetic makeup and are not expressed for selection. You can select for pollen sac size and density, but the data so far is inconclusive on how these traits translate to female flower size and density.
Very interesting, not sure where this came from but the c99 x Od I posted contradicts these statements. She smells like sweet pine which comes from the c99 male... the looks however lean more forwards the original diesel hence the rose bud flowers.
 
MHippie

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I wouldn't do it for successive generations, but doing it one time doesn't seem to lose much, if anything. I think the genetic mutations occur from doing it over and over again, or doing it weakly or ineffectively. If it's done correctly, ie, a healthy thriving plant, and the seeds are allowed to fully mature, and the quality was there to begin with, you should have good results.

If I take a specimen from itself, by doing female to female, the next generation I do is a back-cross with itself (in this case it will be the male from this GG#4xGA) in a "male" form, picking 1 out of a half dozen or more of itself, then breeding it with 2 prime females. Bam! done! It will be stabilized from that point forward. (75% GG#4 x 25% GA) From there you can further isolate the GA genes, if you want.

All of the genetic codes are in the females, males only pass along a few traits that can be sorted out at a later date.


  • All the traits of interest on the female selection can be seen or documented, including: growth and development rates; flower characteristics such as size, quantity, smell and color; as well as potential for accumulating THC or CBD, and terpenes. This cannot be said of male plants.
  • Male plants can only express growth and development traits visually. All other bud traits are hidden in their genetic makeup and are not expressed for selection. You can select for pollen sac size and density, but the data so far is inconclusive on how these traits translate to female flower size and density.

Sorry Frank. I know you are trying to get solid into breeding, but my opinion is the same as @Trustfall on this one. And though he hasn't done a lot of breeding, I sure have. I can tell you that traits from the male plant like branching, bud spacing, bud density, height, bad stuff like mold prone, etc also shows. F2's imo have the most varied traits of all of them no matter what you've put them with. You can grow out 50 plants in the identical enivornment from the same seed batch and get all kinds of crazy variances from physical traits though taste and smell. What I do at that point is selecting a type of plant out of that batch of seeds that I want to continue. Usually it's a pain in the ass, because you never know what's up until the end.

The formula I follow is simple...

Right before flowering I take 2 clones per plant and map them on a piece of paper so that I know what went where in my clone machine. Then they go to flower. The males mature first, so I let 'em go. Whatever looks good from a growth and bud "pollen sack density" perspective, I set that ONE aside. Everything else... culled. Then comes the females side. Once they express, I chart everything. Vertical and horizontal growth, bud spacing, cola formation, branching, popcorn or not, etc. Those clones for the fem plants are continued until after harvest and the test buds are smoked.

Then the best female out of the bunch is selected. Sometimes I'll bonsai the male. I always bonsai the fem. Regardless, I harvest and store pollen from the male. Once the bonsais are stable, then I flower out both male and female clones from those two top plants, make seeds and do it again. And I keep doing it until everything that comes out of those seeds is exactly the same as what came before. When they are identical plants in all areas, then and only then is the strain considered to be anything close to stable.

1 cross, then crossing back to 2 other plants as described above doesn't do shit for stability. The hybrid has to be stable on itself. That blending of strains doesn't happen for at least 3 generations in my experience.

The one thing I HATE about cannabis farming is this prevelant attitude that someone somehow has "missed" something. The only thing that hasn't been missed in cannabis is flavor profile and thc content. People will continue to jack with it until 1 hit makes us walking zombies. And that's fine. But this crap of half assed breeding and misconceptions has got to go. It's REALLY REALLY REALLY fucking up the market.

I won't touch 90% of the breeders out there or more. I just won't. Learned my lesson last season about fucking with off center genetics. It's bullshit. And all it leads to is ultra frustration. Pot isn't a Christmas Fruitcake. It doesn't get better with the addition of all the candied fruit in the world. Not even close. It gets better when something is produced is actually fantastic and is stable... like HSC beans. Like Mosca who has been working with the original Indiana Bubblegum and Sharon White Widow. Like Bodhi. Like BOG. These are the current classic players. My Mosca beans just started popping last night btw. I'm thinking about doing a grow diary that is exclusive to classic foundation based strains. Or I'll just shove it in with the rest of my shit. May as well. Organically it's going to all shift that way anyway... because in this round, that's all there is.

It starts with Chemdog #4, GSC, and LA Confidential. Then there is Astro Kush, LA Pure Kush, and Killer Queen x Blowfish by Hazeman. Mosca's Dancing Queen and Bubblegum Boogie. BOG's Sour Bubble (yep got that stuff... FINALLY). There's some minor shit in between those that I'm not expecting much from.

And then there are three breeding projects I'm working.

Got a male in the Astro Kush run. So I'm making more Astro Kush seeds.
I crossed HSC's Pineapple Muffin with HSC's Purple Mountain Majesty. Seeds just popped from that one.
And today I pollinated a Blue Cookies with a Blue God.

This is just for personal stock. I don't care if someone wants to grow my beans or not lol :)
 
Frankster

Frankster

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Very interesting, not sure where this came from but the c99 x Od I posted contradicts these statements. She smells like sweet pine which comes from the c99 male... the looks however lean more forwards the original diesel hence the rose bud flowers.

Oh, I'm not suggesting traits can't be transferred whatsoever, I think you misunderstood what was being stated. What that statement is saying, is that you can't "observe" those traits in a male plant. ie. I'm not going to see all those traits your speaking of, when I'm observing this:

I can see the internoding, I can see some traits, but I cannot see any "frost" obviously, nor the smell of them, nor can I assess bud size or potency, however I do get a good overall indication of internodal spacing, general size and vigor, leaf morphology, some colors shine though, ect...
 
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Frankster

Frankster

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Sorry Frank. I know you are trying to get solid into breeding, but my opinion is the same as @Trustfall on this one. And though he hasn't done a lot of breeding, I sure have. I can tell you that traits from the male plant like branching, bud spacing, bud density, height, bad stuff like mold prone, etc also shows. F2's imo have the most varied traits of all of them no matter what you've put them with. You can grow out 50 plants in the identical enivornment from the same seed batch and get all kinds of crazy variances from physical traits though taste and smell. What I do at that point is selecting a type of plant out of that batch of seeds that I want to continue. Usually it's a pain in the ass, because you never know what's up until the end.

The formula I follow is simple...

Right before flowering I take 2 clones per plant and map them on a piece of paper so that I know what went where in my clone machine. Then they go to flower. The males mature first, so I let 'em go. Whatever looks good from a growth and bud "pollen sack density" perspective, I set that ONE aside. Everything else... culled. Then comes the females side. Once they express, I chart everything. Vertical and horizontal growth, bud spacing, cola formation, branching, popcorn or not, etc. Those clones for the fem plants are continued until after harvest and the test buds are smoked.

Then the best female out of the bunch is selected. Sometimes I'll bonsai the male. I always bonsai the fem. Regardless, I harvest and store pollen from the male. Once the bonsais are stable, then I flower out both male and female clones from those two top plants, make seeds and do it again. And I keep doing it until everything that comes out of those seeds is exactly the same as what came before. When they are identical plants in all areas, then and only then is the strain considered to be anything close to stable.

1 cross, then crossing back to 2 other plants as described above doesn't do shit for stability. The hybrid has to be stable on itself. That blending of strains doesn't happen for at least 3 generations in my experience.

The one thing I HATE about cannabis farming is this prevelant attitude that someone somehow has "missed" something. The only thing that hasn't been missed in cannabis is flavor profile and thc content. People will continue to jack with it until 1 hit makes us walking zombies. And that's fine. But this crap of half assed breeding and misconceptions has got to go. It's REALLY REALLY REALLY fucking up the market.

I won't touch 90% of the breeders out there or more. I just won't. Learned my lesson last season about fucking with off center genetics. It's bullshit. And all it leads to is ultra frustration. Pot isn't a Christmas Fruitcake. It doesn't get better with the addition of all the candied fruit in the world. Not even close. It gets better when something is produced is actually fantastic and is stable... like HSC beans. Like Mosca who has been working with the original Indiana Bubblegum and Sharon White Widow. Like Bodhi. Like BOG. These are the current classic players. My Mosca beans just started popping last night btw. I'm thinking about doing a grow diary that is exclusive to classic foundation based strains. Or I'll just shove it in with the rest of my shit. May as well. Organically it's going to all shift that way anyway... because in this round, that's all there is.

It starts with Chemdog #4, GSC, and LA Confidential. Then there is Astro Kush, LA Pure Kush, and Killer Queen x Blowfish by Hazeman. Mosca's Dancing Queen and Bubblegum Boogie. BOG's Sour Bubble (yep got that stuff... FINALLY). There's some minor shit in between those that I'm not expecting much from.

And then there are three breeding projects I'm working.

Got a male in the Astro Kush run. So I'm making more Astro Kush seeds.
I crossed HSC's Pineapple Muffin with HSC's Purple Mountain Majesty. Seeds just popped from that one.
And today I pollinated a Blue Cookies with a Blue God.

This is just for personal stock. I don't care if someone wants to grow my beans or not lol :)

I"m not disagreeing with most of what you put up there, but where did you get your start from in all those instances, where did you come up with the new "genetics" from?

For me, it comes from a variety of sources, so I plant a lot of different genetics, and many are a 1 up, and never to be repeated. Others, I get are a 1 time opportunity to grab a strain out there that I didn't have before, and when it happens to be one I'm really interested in, I'm willing to take a watch and see approach. I don't mind growing a plant for a month, then killing it off it bothers me not one bit, because I've always got a few sq feet in my garden I can contribute to such endeavor.

If you've got to have both a male and female of identical strains to make something good more power too you! It's not the first time I'll depart from your views, nor do I suspect it will be the last, Your entitled to your opinions, just like anyone. Delusional Trump supporters included.

I don't always have that luxury, so I do with what I've got on hand, what's available, whats put in my hand.

I've got more than a dozen killer strains that way, and I will continue to do what works. If something is unstable genetics or not up to snuff, it gets 80-6, it's just that simple.

There's no "magic" in a Y chromosome that a X doesn't already have in it, PERIOD. It's just that simple. That's why it's called "mother" earth... That's why you, and me, and every other male out there on this planet has 50% X chromosomes, in your genetic makeup. It's the DOMINATE gene, it's the Heavier gene, it carries MORE information.

And it's NOT just in the human genetic lines, it's that way though-out the plant and animal kingdoms, there could be no reproduction without them, period. end of story, females dominate the genetic lines.



The results speak for themselves, When you mix a male and a female, the "seeds" that result are going to be far more similar to the female you put them on, than the pollinating source.
 
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Frankster

Frankster

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Silver Thiosulfate (STS) is commonly used to block the action of ethylene in plant cell cultures. Ethylene is a hormone that is present in the gaseous state. Ethylene increases during senescence and ripening, and has been shown to increase in plant cell cultures due to wounding or the presence of auxins.


Ethylene has a profound effect on the shape of plants. It determines many aspects of vegetative development by interacting with other hormones. Later in life, ethylene regulates floral transition, and in some species the gender of the flowers.

Eventually they will likely "engineer" a species that does just that. I have no doubt.

Also: I want to point out that silver nitrate is inherently dangerous substance to be messing with, if your not trained in lab settings, it's a very volatile and potentially dangerous molecule.

To sum things up, I'm not saying that males are "unimportant", because they surely an important component to any breeding regime, but there not "necessary" to obtain a cultivar, I want to make my position clear to everyone. Again, I agree with much of what was stated above. I just digress on any position that you need both genders to obtain a quality strain, when the situation presents itself.

I guess I will know shortly, because this is the exact method I used to clone the GG#4, but I also did the backup plan of crossing it with the GA male that's pictured above. So yes, those f1's should have some varied differentiation, but I suspect much of it will be quite good.
 
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zebrausa

zebrausa

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How long does pollen last after it's been collected? I placed my pollen in a paper bag then vacuumed it and placed it in the freezer. Does anyone have a tip? I'm new to breeding.
 
MHippie

MHippie

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Silver Thiosulfate (STS) is commonly used to block the action of ethylene in plant cell cultures. Ethylene is a hormone that is present in the gaseous state. Ethylene increases during senescence and ripening, and has been shown to increase in plant cell cultures due to wounding or the presence of auxins.


Ethylene has a profound effect on the shape of plants. It determines many aspects of vegetative development by interacting with other hormones. Later in life, ethylene regulates floral transition, and in some species the gender of the flowers.

Eventually they will likely "engineer" a species that does just that. I have no doubt.

Also: I want to point out that silver nitrate is inherently dangerous substance to be messing with, if your not trained in lab settings, it's a very volatile and potentially dangerous molecule.

To sum things up, I'm not saying that males are "unimportant", because they surely an important component to any breeding regime, but there not "necessary" to obtain a cultivar, I want to make my position clear to everyone. Again, I agree with much of what was stated above. I just digress on any position that you need both genders to obtain a quality strain, when the situation presents itself.

I guess I will know shortly, because this is the exact method I used to clone the GG#4, but I also did the backup plan of crossing it with the GA male that's pictured above. So yes, those f1's should have some varied differentiation, but I suspect much of it will be quite good.
Frank I've got Jack Herrer seeds this past weekend from a buddy that he's documented back to the Mark Emery days. Another friend of ours has (ironically) a treasured GG #4 line that is from the beginning. It just depend who you know and who they know. Networking is important. But then again we've all known each other since at least the early 90's.

Idk man. There aren't many breeders who discount the quality of the male equation. That's a new one on me for sure.

I know a lot of people who use the silver trick too. It's just not for me. Heavy metal is great for my ears and mental health. But I dont want it anywhere around my weed regardless what it does. To me it sort of takes that entire organic holistic approach and tosses it out the window.

No I dont think same strain breeding is the only way to go. I'm only doing it with Astro Kush. And only because i REALLY like just about anything Hazeman, seeds are expensive, and i like to smoke. Those seeds came from DCSE. The breeder is well known, has been around for a long time, and is from Michigan.

The hybrids I'm working on are the Blue God x Blue Dream. My wife enjoyed both strains and I'm out of Blue God. The last seed flipped male. My wife asked me to put them together and i did.

The HSC hybrid between PMM and Pineapple Muffin is because their lineage is SO similar. But the plants have very different outputs. I'm just curious re what will happen.

That's why I have done everything mentioned. But it doesnt mean because thats my path that it's the only path or even the right path for someone else.

You have a tendency to come off like a professor when you should be sitting in the gallery observing sometimes. There's nothing wrong with a smidgen of humility.

Your "premise" with respect to males is completely left of center. And the only reason I'm wasting my time to write this is so that when some other young inexperienced buck (or doe) comes along and reads this exchange, they'll be encouraged to continue their research instead of gobbling your post up as gospel truth found on the interwebs somewhere.
 
Trustfall

Trustfall

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Frank I've got Jack Herrer seeds this past weekend from a buddy that he's documented back to the Mark Emery days. Another friend of ours has (ironically) a treasured GG #4 line that is from the beginning. It just depend who you know and who they know. Networking is important. But then again we've all known each other since at least the early 90's.

Idk man. There aren't many breeders who discount the quality of the male equation. That's a new one on me for sure.

I know a lot of people who use the silver trick too. It's just not for me. Heavy metal is great for my ears and mental health. But I dont want it anywhere around my weed regardless what it does. To me it sort of takes that entire organic holistic approach and tosses it out the window.

No I dont think same strain breeding is the only way to go. I'm only doing it with Astro Kush. And only because i REALLY like just about anything Hazeman, seeds are expensive, and i like to smoke. Those seeds came from DCSE. The breeder is well known, has been around for a long time, and is from Michigan.

The hybrids I'm working on are the Blue God x Blue Dream. My wife enjoyed both strains and I'm out of Blue God. The last seed flipped male. My wife asked me to put them together and i did.

The HSC hybrid between PMM and Pineapple Muffin is because their lineage is SO similar. But the plants have very different outputs. I'm just curious re what will happen.

That's why I have done everything mentioned. But it doesnt mean because thats my path that it's the only path or even the right path for someone else.

You have a tendency to come off like a professor when you should be sitting in the gallery observing sometimes. There's nothing wrong with a smidgen of humility.

Your "premise" with respect to males is completely left of center. And the only reason I'm wasting my time to write this is so that when some other young inexperienced buck (or doe) comes along and reads this exchange, they'll be encouraged to continue their research instead of gobbling your post up as gospel truth found on the interwebs somewhere.
This is why I always lead with an IMO. LoL
 

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