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MediMary
- 997
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well uploaded the wrong photo, but this is my white urkle and it has been receiving RE from the very get go, I guess I should have taken a root photo of her too, anyways..
M
MediMary
- 997
- 28
PLUS REP X10 thats going to be handy in the future for sure!
and this would be the plant that just got flushed with the re after that weird reaction between the sm90 in the res and the RE in the root crown.
I have been busy and havnt fucked with the whole resizing thing so im just doing a couple pictures for right now .. ill do a total recap at the end of the grow if I have time with all the pictures i took along the way, should have the whole batch resize thing down by then, slow internet as well.. sorry guys.
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MediMary
- 997
- 28
hey thompson, Im going to shoot you a private message, actually its more like a novel..LOL
but for those of you who are wondering, I have had faster more explosive root growth with roots excelurator.
Although this is my first time using it(RE), and I have used sm90 with great results in the past, sm90 you don't get any explosive type growth but has worked well for me in a variety of situations. So far I have only use RE as a root zone additive to stimulate growth, have not used it for a problem solver yet.. So I would be more inclined to recommend the sm90 until I have a bit more experience with the RE...
earlier I mentioned a weird buildup when I used the RE in the root crown, and the sm90 in the res, it didn't seem to hurt the roots at all.
Chrometrichs said he had used them together without a weird reaction, regardless the reaction was not a problem in my opinion(optical examination of the root zone;) ). LOL
I did try using the down under hf(hydrofungicide) in the res, and re in the root crown and didn't get any type of reaction, so I would feel more confident using those two products together at this point...
Since chrome mentioned he didnt have a problem with the combo, then another variable could have been responsible for the reaction,
(something in the tap water, something in the air..etc.....)
but for those of you who are wondering, I have had faster more explosive root growth with roots excelurator.
Although this is my first time using it(RE), and I have used sm90 with great results in the past, sm90 you don't get any explosive type growth but has worked well for me in a variety of situations. So far I have only use RE as a root zone additive to stimulate growth, have not used it for a problem solver yet.. So I would be more inclined to recommend the sm90 until I have a bit more experience with the RE...
earlier I mentioned a weird buildup when I used the RE in the root crown, and the sm90 in the res, it didn't seem to hurt the roots at all.
Chrometrichs said he had used them together without a weird reaction, regardless the reaction was not a problem in my opinion(optical examination of the root zone;) ). LOL
I did try using the down under hf(hydrofungicide) in the res, and re in the root crown and didn't get any type of reaction, so I would feel more confident using those two products together at this point...
Since chrome mentioned he didnt have a problem with the combo, then another variable could have been responsible for the reaction,
(something in the tap water, something in the air..etc.....)
M
MediMary
- 997
- 28
well uploaded the wrong photo, but this is my white urkle and it has been receiving RE from the very get go, I guess I should have taken a root photo of her too, anyways..
here is a picture today from the larger white urkle, granted the RE stains stuff a little bit, things look good up close.:)
View attachment 135248
figured a picture would be nice
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MediMary
- 997
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this is a couple days later on the sour queens,,
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MediMary
- 997
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root shot from today same plant that I had that wierd reaction..
I did do some further expermintation, I reread chrometrichs thread, he used h202 in combination with sm90... which may explain why he didn't get that weird reaction.....
I was able to recreate that weird reaction a couple more times in some of my hydro veggies, but if I first used h202, it wouldnt happen... intersting I think..
not saying this is 100% fact that u use the two together you will get that weird shit happen.
, just sharing my experiences in my little experiments, which I try to be as thoughtful as possible when i conduct them.
P
primeform
- 688
- 28
I read on hf site that it kills all bacteria including beneficial. RE probably has other ingredients that still offer some benefit tho.
P
primeform
- 688
- 28
heres a quote form Sanda site:
"The only set-back is the product cannot distinguish between good and bad bacteria. but the bad bacteria does far more harm than the good does good."
"The only set-back is the product cannot distinguish between good and bad bacteria. but the bad bacteria does far more harm than the good does good."
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MediMary
- 997
- 28
Alright check this out...
After reading that I hit up the joker today and he said Roots Excelurator and sm90 together is no bueno as well..
so thats two different folks who have had a problem with that combo for sure.
After reading that I hit up the joker today and he said Roots Excelurator and sm90 together is no bueno as well..
so thats two different folks who have had a problem with that combo for sure.
TheBioMaster
- 450
- 93
For what it is worth, we have been doing bacteria test since 2005. We use both culture type methods which takes about a week for the results and we also use about a 3000 dollar meter that will give bacteria test results in minutes. Since 2005 we have tested a lot of different products and combination's. RE has been tested extensively. There has NEVER been any bacteria found in RE after testing. It is a hormone based product. In fact its the same found in many cloning/rooting formulas (Indole-3-butyric acid, 1-Naphthalene-acetic acid). Add yourself some B-1 and your there....
These test results do not lie and would easily show the presence of bacteria....
Not sure why people insist that bacteria is in RE. I think H&G is known worldwide for having a label that stated for you NOT to aerate your solution, which turned out to be bunk. Not to mention that these companies will make there labels say almost anything to avoid some of the issues that can arise from what you put on the label.
There are import laws which prevent H&G from importing bacteria into the USA. Which is why H&G does not import or sell there own bacteria product in the USA and recommend you use Great White for your bacteria/fungi inoculate.
Why would they do that if RE had bacteria in it? Why would they not import there brand of bacteria/fungi root inoculate instead of telling you to purchase another company's product instead of their own? Why would H&G make a separate product for bacteria/fungi inoculate if RE already did this?????
I think common sense will tell all the answers here...plus there is hardcore lab test that show the proof as well.
Peace N Good Karma!
These test results do not lie and would easily show the presence of bacteria....
Not sure why people insist that bacteria is in RE. I think H&G is known worldwide for having a label that stated for you NOT to aerate your solution, which turned out to be bunk. Not to mention that these companies will make there labels say almost anything to avoid some of the issues that can arise from what you put on the label.
There are import laws which prevent H&G from importing bacteria into the USA. Which is why H&G does not import or sell there own bacteria product in the USA and recommend you use Great White for your bacteria/fungi inoculate.
Why would they do that if RE had bacteria in it? Why would they not import there brand of bacteria/fungi root inoculate instead of telling you to purchase another company's product instead of their own? Why would H&G make a separate product for bacteria/fungi inoculate if RE already did this?????
I think common sense will tell all the answers here...plus there is hardcore lab test that show the proof as well.
Peace N Good Karma!
M
MediMary
- 997
- 28
we already had this conversation BioMaster... Im still waiting for those scans lil homie, ;)
and the whole H & G saying not to aerate the roots, thats because roots excel is an anaerobic beneficial bacteria.
~wikipedia"
An anaerobic organism or anaerobe is any organism that does not require oxygen for growth. It could possibly react negatively and may even die if oxygen is present. There are three types:
* obligate anaerobes, which cannot use oxygen for growth and are even harmed by it
* aerotolerant organisms, which cannot use oxygen for growth, but tolerate the presence of it
* facultative anaerobes, which can grow without oxygen but can utilize oxygen if it is present"
Anyways I sent rob a link to your little post about bacto force, here is what he responded about what you were saying.
Sorry for the delay getting back with you! Super busy last week and just got home.
I think "Not Allowed" is mighty strong words.
It would take a lot of research in the states before we would be able to import the Bacto Force. That does not mean that we can't import bacterias. Look at the variety of Bacillus bacterias that we would have to deal with importing. It is much easier to just use the beneficial bacteria here in the states. We are working on getting more important H&G products here that are NOT available. The most benefit from importing Bacto Force would be to sell are own products instead of another companies. Also because it has bacteria doesn't mean it can't have natural hormones.
I did have one guy say he watched it come to life under a microscope. This older gentlemen was amazed and he felt that whatever it was was in dormancy till it hit the water.
Hope all is well and things are going smoothly, Rob
You make it sound like its so easy to reverse engineer a product, where is AN reverse engineered RE?
and the whole H & G saying not to aerate the roots, thats because roots excel is an anaerobic beneficial bacteria.
~wikipedia"
An anaerobic organism or anaerobe is any organism that does not require oxygen for growth. It could possibly react negatively and may even die if oxygen is present. There are three types:
* obligate anaerobes, which cannot use oxygen for growth and are even harmed by it
* aerotolerant organisms, which cannot use oxygen for growth, but tolerate the presence of it
* facultative anaerobes, which can grow without oxygen but can utilize oxygen if it is present"
Anyways I sent rob a link to your little post about bacto force, here is what he responded about what you were saying.
Sorry for the delay getting back with you! Super busy last week and just got home.
I think "Not Allowed" is mighty strong words.
It would take a lot of research in the states before we would be able to import the Bacto Force. That does not mean that we can't import bacterias. Look at the variety of Bacillus bacterias that we would have to deal with importing. It is much easier to just use the beneficial bacteria here in the states. We are working on getting more important H&G products here that are NOT available. The most benefit from importing Bacto Force would be to sell are own products instead of another companies. Also because it has bacteria doesn't mean it can't have natural hormones.
I did have one guy say he watched it come to life under a microscope. This older gentlemen was amazed and he felt that whatever it was was in dormancy till it hit the water.
Hope all is well and things are going smoothly, Rob
You make it sound like its so easy to reverse engineer a product, where is AN reverse engineered RE?
M
MediMary
- 997
- 28
:)
M
MediMary
- 997
- 28
This PDF is pretty damn interesting!!:lock:
View attachment Recovery of Anaerobic, Faculative, and Aerobic Bacteria..pdf
View attachment Recovery of Anaerobic, Faculative, and Aerobic Bacteria..pdf
TheBioMaster
- 450
- 93
@medimary-You will be waiting a long time for me to prove anything to you "Little girl"....I really do not care how you use RE or what you "think" you know. I rely on hands on testing done in labs myself with instruments use to measure bacteria growth and presence. We have invested thousands of dollars on these test as I mentioned since 2005. This is nothing new by any means.....after the nasty PM I received from you, you were put on ignore long ago......at one point I was even going to offer you access to our web forum where we keep detailed logs of all the test we have run over the years for professional nutrient companies. That was before I realized I was dealing with a child of sorts......people like you are also the reason I do not frequent these public boards much anymore.....good luck to you!
Peace!
Peace!
M
MediMary
- 997
- 28
First off I wasn't nasty to you, just real..
I straight up told you House and Garden Uk & US is either sharing shit info, which means Im sharing shit info- or you were sharing shit info.. your the one who got all butt hurt ..
if you can furnish any type of proof I will gladly admit I was wrong, I just want to share accurate info.... anytime I have misspoke I own that shit.
And BTW, how exactly does that work, You put me on ignore a long time ago, but you can still see my posts. ~~ uh huh , I call bullshit yet again dude.
just like you been working for nutrients companies for what, 28 years now ;)
lets see your web info, there are thousands upon thousands of people on these forums who would benefit from these tests you supposedly are conducting, seriously lets get to the bottom of this shit, but don't give us some BS lame ass excuse why you won't share your info.. wtf dude....
This my impression of talking with you...
Person 1" I have a grow room with a hundred, 1000watt light bulbs.
With a 200,000$ generator"
Person 2"wait a second!, That room only had 4 lights in there"
Person 1"well Im not going to show you guys anything now, you all missed your chance to see the magic"
Thats what I get when I read your posts:)
Really though lets get to the bottom of this, I thought i would browse some of your threads,
seems like after 28 years..... well u know:)
woodsmaneh
- 1,724
- 263
Bla Bla bla bla, you want to run with the big dogs prove it or sit on the porch with the little dogs, can't prove it your talking shit so piss off. Good day to you sir. DFC :character0029:
M
MediMary
- 997
- 28
hey u got anything that get down see microbes woodsmaneh? snap photos;)
dextr0
- 1,661
- 163
Hey have yall went to the microbe man site?? Its real interesting. He was looking at this product called....name escapes me right now. But he looked at it strait out of the bottle; no life...
Well for the sake of it he feed molasses (form of carbs, just like plants do, they exudate carbs to feed microbes) shook it up and came back later...Low and behold life. Lots of it.
Now if you want to believe what he said thats on you. I did not think he was trying to sell specific product (its actually cheap as hell anyway), but u can draw your own conclusions...My question is could the same thing be happening with RE, if looked under a mic?
As for RE, Medi posted what I knew about it.
Good luck fellas and I hope u post your findings.
Here it is:
Terracycle Examination:
Recently, I examined Terracycle’s product labeled, Plant Food. It comes in a recycled 591 ml pop bottle with a spray device screwed on top. It has an NPK analysis on the label of 0.03 – 0.002 – 0.02. The ingredients listed are; vermicompost extract, period. It is an OMRI listed product where it is classed as a manure tea. I believe the recommendations for its use are similar to the recommendations for compost tea in certified organic applications. According to OMRI, whom I contacted by phone, if there are other ingredients they must be listed. If there are any loopholes in labeling laws I am unaware of them. When I first heard of Terracycle’s ‘liquid worm poo’ product I assumed that they must be using phosphoric acid to stabilize or put to sleep the microbes. According to their ‘science guy’, Bill and their label, this is not the case. Bill says the stabilization and shelf life are attributed to the process utilized in production which he did not volunteer to reveal. He did say their product has been tested against pathogens such as e-coli.
I examined several samples of one bottle only so I would call this a preliminary observation and report. Upon first examination of the product fresh out of the bottle under the microscope, I observed very little microbial life. I saw two spore forming bacteria, apparently dormant. This was akin to looking at plain water. It was so vacant (boring) that I did not bother looking at another sample. Because I do so with all samples I observe, I filled a pill bottle with the liquid product, added a couple of drops of black strap molasses, shook it up for 90 seconds and left it sitting on the bench with the lid off. Obligingly at about 24 hours I sucked up a sample to observe. What a surprise! I saw a sample swimming with a wide variety of bacteria. There were also a few flagellates present and what appeared to be fungal hyphae. You can download a video clip here (14 MB) or smaller version here (6 MB).
At the 40 hour mark after the Terracycle being fed black strap molasses, I found myself further amazed to see even more diverse bacteria and a higher number and diversity of flagellates. There are large masses comprised of a type of actinomycetes or other hyphal forming bacteria (I believe) conjunctive with other stationary bacterial biomass, active bacteria, yeast formations, fungal hyphae and feeding flagellates. These appear as large islands and the video clip only shows the outer edge of one of these. The short clips I made for the website do not properly illustrate these masses so if someone is interested in seeing more I can send you some footage. The apparent fungal hyphae structures are much more developed and growing across many fields of view. They are approximately 3.5 to 4 microns in diameter and appear to have relatively regularly placed septa. I did not observe any branching and do not know what this may indicate. If someone knowledgeable in fungal hyphae has any input I’d appreciate it. The video clip for the 40 hour observation may be downloaded here (14 MB) or here (6 MB).
My response to this preliminary observation by way of recommendations is that if one uses it straight out of the bottle it will probably have little effect as a foliar feeder or leaf disease suppressant. Used straight out of the bottle on soil it may have very good benefits, via initiating or boosting the microbial nutrient cycle at the root/soil interface, once the dormant microbes are stimulated to growth and activity from propitious conditions and food sources. Used as an inoculant in a compost tea Terracycle may have profound beneficial effects to increase the microbial diversity and volume in compost tea inclusive of bacteria, flagellates and (apparently) fungal hyphae.
As I said, I am most surprised by these observations and expected absolutely the opposite. I would appreciate hearing from other microscopists out there who may look at this product in similar fashion. As time affords it, I will look at more samples (bottles) of this product to test for consistency to rule out this being an isolated case. I did run a control test on my molasses mixed with water in case anyone wonders.
http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Tests_Observations
Well for the sake of it he feed molasses (form of carbs, just like plants do, they exudate carbs to feed microbes) shook it up and came back later...Low and behold life. Lots of it.
Now if you want to believe what he said thats on you. I did not think he was trying to sell specific product (its actually cheap as hell anyway), but u can draw your own conclusions...My question is could the same thing be happening with RE, if looked under a mic?
As for RE, Medi posted what I knew about it.
Good luck fellas and I hope u post your findings.
Here it is:
Terracycle Examination:
Recently, I examined Terracycle’s product labeled, Plant Food. It comes in a recycled 591 ml pop bottle with a spray device screwed on top. It has an NPK analysis on the label of 0.03 – 0.002 – 0.02. The ingredients listed are; vermicompost extract, period. It is an OMRI listed product where it is classed as a manure tea. I believe the recommendations for its use are similar to the recommendations for compost tea in certified organic applications. According to OMRI, whom I contacted by phone, if there are other ingredients they must be listed. If there are any loopholes in labeling laws I am unaware of them. When I first heard of Terracycle’s ‘liquid worm poo’ product I assumed that they must be using phosphoric acid to stabilize or put to sleep the microbes. According to their ‘science guy’, Bill and their label, this is not the case. Bill says the stabilization and shelf life are attributed to the process utilized in production which he did not volunteer to reveal. He did say their product has been tested against pathogens such as e-coli.
I examined several samples of one bottle only so I would call this a preliminary observation and report. Upon first examination of the product fresh out of the bottle under the microscope, I observed very little microbial life. I saw two spore forming bacteria, apparently dormant. This was akin to looking at plain water. It was so vacant (boring) that I did not bother looking at another sample. Because I do so with all samples I observe, I filled a pill bottle with the liquid product, added a couple of drops of black strap molasses, shook it up for 90 seconds and left it sitting on the bench with the lid off. Obligingly at about 24 hours I sucked up a sample to observe. What a surprise! I saw a sample swimming with a wide variety of bacteria. There were also a few flagellates present and what appeared to be fungal hyphae. You can download a video clip here (14 MB) or smaller version here (6 MB).
At the 40 hour mark after the Terracycle being fed black strap molasses, I found myself further amazed to see even more diverse bacteria and a higher number and diversity of flagellates. There are large masses comprised of a type of actinomycetes or other hyphal forming bacteria (I believe) conjunctive with other stationary bacterial biomass, active bacteria, yeast formations, fungal hyphae and feeding flagellates. These appear as large islands and the video clip only shows the outer edge of one of these. The short clips I made for the website do not properly illustrate these masses so if someone is interested in seeing more I can send you some footage. The apparent fungal hyphae structures are much more developed and growing across many fields of view. They are approximately 3.5 to 4 microns in diameter and appear to have relatively regularly placed septa. I did not observe any branching and do not know what this may indicate. If someone knowledgeable in fungal hyphae has any input I’d appreciate it. The video clip for the 40 hour observation may be downloaded here (14 MB) or here (6 MB).
My response to this preliminary observation by way of recommendations is that if one uses it straight out of the bottle it will probably have little effect as a foliar feeder or leaf disease suppressant. Used straight out of the bottle on soil it may have very good benefits, via initiating or boosting the microbial nutrient cycle at the root/soil interface, once the dormant microbes are stimulated to growth and activity from propitious conditions and food sources. Used as an inoculant in a compost tea Terracycle may have profound beneficial effects to increase the microbial diversity and volume in compost tea inclusive of bacteria, flagellates and (apparently) fungal hyphae.
As I said, I am most surprised by these observations and expected absolutely the opposite. I would appreciate hearing from other microscopists out there who may look at this product in similar fashion. As time affords it, I will look at more samples (bottles) of this product to test for consistency to rule out this being an isolated case. I did run a control test on my molasses mixed with water in case anyone wonders.
http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Tests_Observations
M
MediMary
- 997
- 28
here is a lil root shot from before the flip(about the weeks ago, sorry for kinda letting this thread die off, but in my defense I got hit wih the blue screen of death at the beginning of the month.
this is what I have found, when plants are very small with small root masses this is the time that products like Roots excelurator, sea green, etc.. work the best.
once a plant is more on the medium size, the root growth is about the same regardless if your using sterilzing products(zone, h202, sm90, etc..)
after the intial boost RE gave on the small plant the root growth has been exactly the same using a sterile res.
From here on out I will be inoculating my aero cloner with Roots excel once roots develop as this is the time I found these type of products to be mosts useful, then I transplant into hydroclay and run a sterile res.
couple pics before my computer took a swan dive:)
mygirl:)
this is what I have found, when plants are very small with small root masses this is the time that products like Roots excelurator, sea green, etc.. work the best.
once a plant is more on the medium size, the root growth is about the same regardless if your using sterilzing products(zone, h202, sm90, etc..)
after the intial boost RE gave on the small plant the root growth has been exactly the same using a sterile res.
From here on out I will be inoculating my aero cloner with Roots excel once roots develop as this is the time I found these type of products to be mosts useful, then I transplant into hydroclay and run a sterile res.
couple pics before my computer took a swan dive:)
mygirl:)
ncga
- 249
- 63
Now that's a conversation stopper :confused0054:
Mary
Not all equipment has a report or read out. If we were taking about Gas Spectrometers then you would have a nice read out. Bacteria is more of an observed count, IMHO
nc
Mary
Not all equipment has a report or read out. If we were taking about Gas Spectrometers then you would have a nice read out. Bacteria is more of an observed count, IMHO
nc
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