🐺Newby nearly giving up. I'm trying coco /perlite 50/50 mix. After spending nearly $300 on seeds I have yet to have a two week old healthy seedling.

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OldOneEye

OldOneEye

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What coco do you buy? Because its probably already washed for you. You can buy cheap coco bricks but you need to wash those with PHed water I think he was refeering to that. Of course there's also good coco in bricks, I think even canna has coco in bricks now and those are totally fine to not wash but 1,50 euro coco bricks that I can buy from amazon are dirty as fuck and probably full of sodium.
You are correct, It is washed when I get it. 10 lb block once per year. I do not ph the water when I reconstitute. I feed with ph'd water when i uppot or plant rooted clones. I recycle old coco, 1 reason I flush my plants 10 days to 2 weeks before harvest. I feed and water my plants as the coco gets dry. Once or twice a week in veg. Every 3 daysish in flower.
* I also use about 30% perlite.
 
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FatNate

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To simplify things and get off in the right direction without worrying about soil, try pete pellets for your seedlings. I've tried to start seedlings in many different types of soil (Even seedling soil) and have had a rough time. Seedlings and young plants can be very sensitive to soil and coco... (I had HORRIBLE luck starting seedlings in Coco made for seedlings...)

I have 100% success with all seedlings using the paper towel method and then moving to pete pellets... I've also planted directly in pete pellets and all seeds germinated and grew well..

Once the plant has a few true leaves or a few nodes, you can move it to the soil/coco... Note: my plants are very healthy in the pete pellet, but as soon as I transplant to soil, they struggle a bit until they get acclimated to the new soil/coco...

Note: a little pete pellet will allow a plant to go a week or two before needing to transplant...Once the roots are popping out the bottom you know its time to transplant. Note 2: careful with young plants, they need very little water. I use a paper towel to take a lot of the water out of the pete pellet after initial soaking and water with a very little water every couple of days (I'm talking a teaspoon !) it's very easy to overwater seedlings. You want the pete pellet to be damp, not soaking..(easy to tell by weight)

OP, I would bet my paycheck that this will solve your problem. I'm that confident !

Thank you for taking the time to share with me your knowledge. Everyone has given me a lot of information to process. I recognize I've made nearly every mistake possible. In life as well. I've over watered a lot maybe still doing this. Even with paper towels method 60% did not germinate. My last trying I was reimbursed 21 seeds. The 9 that produces radical lasted less than a week in coco. That's when I felt hopeless. But I'm not giving up. I learned today multi meter is broken unable to calibrate or reset to factory specs. So when I thought pH was 6.0 it was 4.0.. I found a cheap $6.00 pH tester that I calibrated and seems to function properly. Waiting on a multi and two more cheapies to have back ups.Im waiting for new batch sees from NASC. Hopeful they will germinate and will start in solo cups with micro watering 2 10 ml doses per cup daily for first several days watching how fast it dries out and adjusting as needed. I won't start nutes until first set of regular leaves come out.then it will be half recommended amount that Floro Series recommends. EC will be starting at 300 and ppm 200-250 ish first couple weeks. Seems 10 days or so for germination then another 14 days until veg starts.I just hope I can get to this point. This will be progress. I will start a couple in soil. High school days and after I had 6 outdoor seasonal grows that were incredibly successful.Unforrunaley several summers the patch was stolen in early fall. I stopped for 25 years but now am trying again indoors. Thanks again for the feedback .Peace...
 
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FatNate

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what’s your light setup and how do you germinate the seeds? Also a newbie here so don’t want to give much advice but will say to try a half dose or even a quarter dose of nutes if you suspect that might be killing the plant.
I've made every mistake possible I think. Running two setups both in separate tents. 300 w in God for 3x3 area I hope then I have two 4ft 70w set over hydro pce 48 spot system. Growing herbs salsa etc. in this one. Will try a auto or 4 in this with rockwool. Hope to increase lighting when I can afford it. I'm not giving up yet...
 
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FatNate

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I think 65% is way to low for seedlings, I keep them just below the point of dew point. When you see the little balls of water gathering on them, just back off enough for that to evaporate. Humidity domes (even just home made) work wonders here. Somewhere in the mid 80's for Rh, and mid to high 70's for temps (23C'ish) would be ideal. It just seems you're giving them vegging conditions before they are actually ready for it.

You should run a side grow with soil, and get you some smoke while you work this out lol.
Thank you for taking the time to respond
I will run a side show just to have some smoke while getting a process/system working properly. I've made every mistake but today I learned my tester is broken
Won't calibrate or reset so waiting on new multi tester and two like the cheaper one I have that works. Inside tent RH is 65 ish but seedlings are in domed tray . I was wrong when I stated 65% humidity Domed tray rh is higher I'm sure. . I'm not giving up yet. Thanks for the knowledge.
 
kes54800

kes54800

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I run 100% pure coco (canna coco) and have for almost 20yrs. I have never "buffered" my coco.
I germinate seeds with paper towel method and go into solo cups from there. I run house and garden nutrients and add 5ml per gallon of calmag until about week 2 of flower. I basically follow their feeding chart. I use tap water that sits in 55gal drum and run air pump 24/7 to "off gas" any chemicals in my tap water. I mix my nutes and end up with a ph of 5.7-6.3 naturally I never have to use ph up and down. Try to keep it as simple as possible. Only time I ever use a dome is to root clones, I've never used a dome to start seeds. Using dome is just adding more complications imo. I also live in New England so my humidity is never very low anyways. If humidity is like 20% or lower id just add a small humidifier cheap Amazon one, and ditch the dome for seedling starts. just speaking on experience. everyone does it different. I wouldn't make any big changes now since your plants learn your environment. Maybe try it next time...
 
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carlosescobar

carlosescobar

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Thank you for taking the time to respond
I will run a side show just to have some smoke while getting a process/system working properly. I've made every mistake but today I learned my tester is broken
Won't calibrate or reset so waiting on new multi tester and two like the cheaper one I have that works. Inside tent RH is 65 ish but seedlings are in domed tray . I was wrong when I stated 65% humidity Domed tray rh is higher I'm sure. . I'm not giving up yet. Thanks for the knowledge.
I used to throw my Ph pens away when they stopped working , then last week i found out the top comes off and there is a battery in there. Doh . I have 100% germination rate with rockwool cubes in a humidity dome,
 
Eledin

Eledin

2,369
263
I run 100% pure coco (canna coco) and have for almost 20yrs. I have never "buffered" my coco.
I germinate seeds with paper towel method and go into solo cups from there. I run house and garden nutrients and add 5ml per gallon of calmag until about week 2 of flower. I basically follow their feeding chart. I use tap water that sits in 55gal drum and run air pump 24/7 to "off gas" any chemicals in my tap water. I mix my nutes and end up with a ph of 5.7-6.3 naturally I never have to use ph up and down. Try to keep it as simple as possible. Only time I ever use a dome is to root clones, I've never used a dome to start seeds. Using dome is just adding more complications imo. I also live in New England so my humidity is never very low anyways. If humidity is like 20% or lower id just add a small humidifier cheap Amazon one, and ditch the dome for seedling starts. just speaking on experience. everyone does it different. I wouldn't make any big changes now since your plants learn your environment. Maybe try it next time...
Canna washes it and buffers it for you 😁 either the OP is buffering it again or his coco is not washed nor buffered, which you can buy much cheaper but is full of crap. You need to wash and buffer untreated coco or you will have salt in your substrate and a bad PH. But yeah, thats why I recommended atami washed and buffered, I think its the coco with the lowest EC out there at the moment. I usually buy biobizz though, almost any commercial substrate brand if not all will give it to you washed and buffered.
 
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FatNate

9
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I run 100% pure coco (canna coco) and have for almost 20yrs. I have never "buffered" my coco.
I germinate seeds with paper towel method and go into solo cups from there. I run house and garden nutrients and add 5ml per gallon of calmag until about week 2 of flower. I basically follow their feeding chart. I use tap water that sits in 55gal drum and run air pump 24/7 to "off gas" any chemicals in my tap water. I mix my nutes and end up with a ph of 5.7-6.3 naturally I never have to use ph up and down. Try to keep it as simple as possible. Only time I ever use a dome is to root clones, I've never used a dome to start seeds. Using dome is just adding more complications imo. I also live in New England so my humidity is never very low anyways. If humidity is like 20% or lower id just add a small humidifier cheap Amazon one, and ditch the dome for seedling starts. just speaking on experience. everyone does it different. I wouldn't make any big changes now since your plants learn your environment. Maybe try it next time...
Thank you for your wisdom. When I grew outdoors 30 years ago the hardest job was lugging 10 gallons water 1/2 mile or so. Keeping it simple is exactly what I want. Between creating a tent environment buying a lot of stuff and having easily 30 hrs a week last two months I'm am concerned have I made a mistake? It feels like I have. And I have made every mistake possible I think
.Everything I think I know has come from reading and watching lots of different people on you tube
Getting all this new information dialed in(some incorrect).I find out when everything is dead or dying has been a huge learning curve for.me. I never thought it could be so hard to grow hydroponically or even in dirt or soilless medium. I think pH is very important to optimize plant growth.and I understand ro and temp needs per stage . It's ts going to get better tho. I found out my test meter is broken so I have a replacement now and waiting for the others to arrive by mail. I have grated reservoir for mini hydro system 5 gallons with bubbler in it. Now that I know all measurements were off cause of broken tester I'm hopeful and excited to start next germination. I seem to average only 1/3 .aucces with this. I wonder if I get bad or old seeds. Ive tried four different suppliers currently waiting on delivery from NASC...Hope to have better success with germination. Thanks so much for taking time to share with me your encouraging words .



.
 
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FatNate

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I used to throw my Ph pens away when they stopped working , then last week i found out the top comes off and there is a battery in there. Doh . I have 100% germination rate with rockwool cubes in a humidity dome,
I just had similar with herbs salad and kale90% germination in 1 inch cubes in a dome. It took about 7 days . I just transplanted all to net pots addressing a cube of wool to each. Now 40 inches under led . Gave them ppm 235 EC .8 with a mister pump. Hope they can sit a week till I've gotten everything running and stabilized. 50 sights available upgraded to aquarium heater so temp of water is consistent. I love this stuff just wish I hadn't made so many mistakes. Spent a lot last three months. Creating auto irrigation and auto drain for next projects for tent coco grow in bags area. Thanks for taking time to share your knowledge. Peace....
 
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FatNate

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You are correct, It is washed when I get it. 10 lb block once per year. I do not ph the water when I reconstitute. I feed with ph'd water when i uppot or plant rooted clones. I recycle old coco, 1 reason I flush my plants 10 days to 2 weeks before harvest. I feed and water my plants as the coco gets dry. Once or twice a week in veg. Every 3 daysish in flower.
* I also use about 30% perlite.
Thanks for responding. Very interesting your fertigation schedule. I've over watered the entire first two months trying to grow. Read about 4 processes of fertigation and the 24 hr cycle. It's 4 stages. Hoping to be able to have a auto watering system 4 to 5 times a day. .Have you ever had success with that. The science behind it makes sense. Allowing you to manage EC levels and keep the root zone going thru 5 wet to dry schedules in one 18 hr period
Then the big dry out during lights out and first two hrs of lights on
I will have two plants watered your way but really wish to have and see this auto watering process come to fruition. Do you have runoff when you water? If I water a 2 gallon bag with month and a half old plant it stays wet nearly 8 days. I watered after top inch was dry and kept killing plants and had huge damping off problem with younger ones especially. How do you water the first two months and what size pot , medium and haw your ppfd reading throughout this two months period. If you have time. I love to read your total process. Thanks for responding . Peace.
 
OldOneEye

OldOneEye

334
93
Thanks for responding. Very interesting your fertigation schedule. I've over watered the entire first two months trying to grow. Read about 4 processes of fertigation and the 24 hr cycle. It's 4 stages. Hoping to be able to have a auto watering system 4 to 5 times a day. .Have you ever had success with that. The science behind it makes sense. Allowing you to manage EC levels and keep the root zone going thru 5 wet to dry schedules in one 18 hr period
Then the big dry out during lights out and first two hrs of lights on
I will have two plants watered your way but really wish to have and see this auto watering process come to fruition. Do you have runoff when you water? If I water a 2 gallon bag with month and a half old plant it stays wet nearly 8 days. I watered after top inch was dry and kept killing plants and had huge damping off problem with younger ones especially. How do you water the first two months and what size pot , medium and haw your ppfd reading throughout this two months period. If you have time. I love to read your total process. Thanks for responding . Peace.
Thanks brother, in appreciate it. You are a new grower try to grow like a mad scientist. It only has to be as hard as you want to make it.
The thing about coco is that it is the best of both worlds. Worlds being soil and hydro growing. Soil is slow hydro is fast. What i do in soil will affect the plant visibly days to weeks later. Hydro what I did 15 minutes ago is visible. Coco is kinda in-between. Much quicker than soil but slow enough to correct mistakes made. If you are using 50/50 coco to perlite, I would add some coco to be about 70/30. You will have better results. Any help increase can give just ask.
I water to run off with every feeding. About 10 to 20% run off.
I have grown in active hydro, aquaponics, bubbleponics and yes even soil.
My best advice at this point is to start with an easy process, once you understand the plant and how to maintain an easy environment. Then add the bells and whistles. You will gain much more both then and now.
Cheers

#thosethatknowgrow
 
Galgrows

Galgrows

2,088
263
Thanks brother, in appreciate it. You are a new grower try to grow like a mad scientist. It only has to be as hard as you want to make it.
The thing about coco is that it is the best of both worlds. Worlds being soil and hydro growing. Soil is slow hydro is fast. What i do in soil will affect the plant visibly days to weeks later. Hydro what I did 15 minutes ago is visible. Coco is kinda in-between. Much quicker than soil but slow enough to correct mistakes made. If you are using 50/50 coco to perlite, I would add some coco to be about 70/30. You will have better results. Any help increase can give just ask.
I water to run off with every feeding. About 10 to 20% run off.
I have grown in active hydro, aquaponics, bubbleponics and yes even soil.
My best advice at this point is to start with an easy process, once you understand the plant and how to maintain an easy environment. Then add the bells and whistles. You will gain much more both then and now.
Cheers

#thosethatknowgrow
Could'nt agree more.
 
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growerrr

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I used just atami b'cuzz, no perlite, or vermiculite. Just broke 1,5 bio tabs and placed it everywhere in the Coco.
Not my first rodeo with Coco but first time with a bought one and to be honest i never go back washing and buffing Coco again.
So I just bought few different cocos to start seeds i soak seeds in a light h202 with fulvic humic acids and kelp , for 24 to 72 hours at 80 degrees then place in substrate this last time I tried coco for first time I placed seed then sprinkled with cinnamon (as i always do) top with lil more substrate and lightly mist with clonex solution with superthrive and they 11 out of 15 sprouted just got first set of new leaves(mind you most were 5 year old seeds).... so my question is what's this about washing and buffing?? As I just bought bunch of coco coir one brick being wondersoil (earthworm castings kelp and other stuff) I know with coco you need to watch ph and add calmag but never heard of washing and buffing is that something I need to do if I pot in straight coco cause they are almost ready to leave starter trays?
 
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growerrr

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3
So I just bought few different cocos to start seeds i soak seeds in a light h202 with fulvic humic acids and kelp , for 24 to 72 hours at 80 degrees then place in substrate this last time I tried coco for first time I placed seed then sprinkled with cinnamon (as i always do) top with lil more substrate and lightly mist with clonex solution with superthrive and they 11 out of 15 sprouted just got first set of new leaves(mind you most were 5 year old seeds).... so my question is what's this about washing and buffing?? As I just bought bunch of coco coir one brick being wondersoil (earthworm castings kelp and other stuff) I know with coco you need to watch ph and add calmag but never heard of washing and buffing is that something I need to do if I pot in straight coco cause they are almost ready to leave starter trays?
 
Eledin

Eledin

2,369
263
I have not used coco a lot in my years and is best that you wait for a response from someone who uses coco and maybe has a technique to do it better. For me it was quite simple, the only thing I had to do to addapt is feed them sooner (usually peat is about week 3, average) and becareful not to raise the EC too much, using just whats necessary and watering more often. Thats my experience with coco, I buy it washed and buffered from atami or biobizz. That just means they got rid of all the salts and dirt that it has when it gets its first wash on the beach usually, with salty water and sand, and its buffered to the right ph. Hell, sometimes I even found plastic in cheap coco bricks, but nowadays you can buy pretty high quality coco bricks I just prefeer the bags, had bad experiences with bricks.
 
Eledin

Eledin

2,369
263
Another big difference when it comes to coco cheap briks is all the coco dust it comes with, makes it overall less porous and a nightmare to dry in winter. Dont be cheap with your coco is all I can say really hahaha.
 
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growerrr

25
3
So I just bought few different cocos to start seeds i soak seeds in a light h202 with fulvic humic acids and kelp , for 24 to 72 hours at 80 degrees then place in substrate this last time I tried coco for first time I placed seed then sprinkled with cinnamon (as i always do) top with lil more substrate and lightly mist with clonex solution with superthrive and they 11 out of 15 sprouted just got first set of new leaves(mind you most were 5 year old seeds).... so my question is what's this about washing and buffing?? As I just bought bunch of coco coir one brick being wondersoil (earthworm castings kelp and other stuff) I know with coco you need to watch ph and add calmag but never heard of washing and buffing is that something I need to do if I pot in straight coco cause they are almost ready to leave starter trays?
I also find cleanliness is half the battle over decade of growing just now realizing how important up until recently started having trouble with seeds sporting clones always just rinsed out pots and stuff not i clean everything and don't reuse soil until later in veg !
 
Redneckx

Redneckx

736
143
I have not used coco a lot in my years and is best that you wait for a response from someone who uses coco and maybe has a technique to do it better. For me it was quite simple, the only thing I had to do to addapt is feed them sooner (usually peat is about week 3, average) and becareful not to raise the EC too much, using just whats necessary and watering more often. Thats my experience with coco, I buy it washed and buffered from atami or biobizz. That just means they got rid of all the salts and dirt that it has when it gets its first wash on the beach usually, with salty water and sand, and its buffered to the right ph. Hell, sometimes I even found plastic in cheap coco bricks, but nowadays you can buy pretty high quality coco bricks I just prefeer the bags, had bad experiences with bricks.
Same experience I made, bricks suck! Very dusty, a lot of bugs and else in it. Rinsing those bricks is pain in the ass too. Had some cheap from the discounter and higher quality from plagron but they're still garbage.
After that I just buy bagged once and hope the producer will make sure there's nothing unwanted in it...but y never know.
Maybe my fault but I got some gnats again.. in atami B'cuzz Coco.
Would pass that rinsing and buffing by myself. Also a thing is to kill all those bugs in it, to heat it up before use.
For example in the oven and tbh I hadn't done that...for reasons, maybe it start burning, ruin my oven or giving odor I don't want to have in my kitchen.
 
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longbottom

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Thank you for taking the time to share with me your knowledge. Everyone has given me a lot of information to process. I recognize I've made nearly every mistake possible. In life as well. I've over watered a lot maybe still doing this. Even with paper towels method 60% did not germinate. My last trying I was reimbursed 21 seeds. The 9 that produces radical lasted less than a week in coco. That's when I felt hopeless. But I'm not giving up. I learned today multi meter is broken unable to calibrate or reset to factory specs. So when I thought pH was 6.0 it was 4.0.. I found a cheap $6.00 pH tester that I calibrated and seems to function properly. Waiting on a multi and two more cheapies to have back ups.Im waiting for new batch sees from NASC. Hopeful they will germinate and will start in solo cups with micro watering 2 10 ml doses per cup daily for first several days watching how fast it dries out and adjusting as needed. I won't start nutes until first set of regular leaves come out.then it will be half recommended amount that Floro Series recommends. EC will be starting at 300 and ppm 200-250 ish first couple weeks. Seems 10 days or so for germination then another 14 days until veg starts.I just hope I can get to this point. This will be progress. I will start a couple in soil. High school days and after I had 6 outdoor seasonal grows that were incredibly successful.Unforrunaley several summers the patch was stolen in early fall. I stopped for 25 years but now am trying again indoors. Thanks again for the feedback .Peace...
I think you need a little simplification, starting seeds is not rocket science. You need, a Pete pellet, a seed and water. That’s it ! We aren’t checking EC yet !

Both One Bell and myself have recommended pellets, and one bell is a first time grower. I’ve had a horrible time starting seeds in anything other than pellets. A huge headache with everything else, pellets have worked for me every time and they worked for one bell as well.

Just use PH drops, those electric device swings your getting will only cause you a headache…I use PH drops from General Hydroponics, they are very reliable and work great. Cheap too.
 
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