A
anthony6969
- 74
- 0
i have 2 plants in the same pot and was going to transplant them into bigger seperate pots but the roots are entangles would it be ok to leave the 2 plants in the same pot
D
dkmonk
- 42
- 6
Yes, it is okay, but i would transplant them into a big pot if they already aren't (3-5 gallons) and it should be noted that one of your plants are going to grow bigger and more vigorous than the other, because what happens is the bigger one takes over the other ones roots.
You probably wont get any more yield by seperating them, because that is going to hurt their roots and their growth will be stunted for a 3-7 days. I would keep them together and just see how things turn out.
dkmonk
You probably wont get any more yield by seperating them, because that is going to hurt their roots and their growth will be stunted for a 3-7 days. I would keep them together and just see how things turn out.
dkmonk
C
coldnorth
- 332
- 0
im (faceing)? the same problem, adopted 3 girls but they were all in the sama pot, bet way to seperate them? 1 of em are growing fine, 3rd is realy weak and not much happening, what to do? what to do?
G
Guano
- 311
- 18
3LB in their JOG - the organic Jungle of Green
We've been working on and growing in an organic "Jungle of Green" or "JOG" for some time here at the bird's nest in a system that is still evolving to this day . . . the basic concept is to create something similar to a scrog without the screen - something like a sea of green without the excessive plant counts . . .
we are not saying we "coined" the term Jungle of Green . . . it could be called a FOG - a forest of green just as easily . . . but we couldn't take credit for that name either . . . there's nothing "revolutionary" about our growing system . . . rather it's "evolutionary" . . . like the way we remix our soil . . . this grow setup simply evolved over time . . .
the basis of our system are the 2' x 3' plastic utility containers that the three_little_bird's are now infamous for growing in . . . they are just under a foot deep and will hold something in the range of 25 to 30 gallons of soil depending on how full we pack them . . . needless to say these containers are heavy so we have each of our containers on an individual furniture mover to make them mobile (and to avoid root stress when the containers are moved) . . .
in our "jungle of green" system we use a maximum of 4 plants per container and a minimum of 2 plants in each 2' x 3' container . . .
4 plants per container gives each plant 1 ½ square feet apiece and 7 to 8 gallons of soil each . . .
3 plants per container give each plant 2 square feet of space and 10+ gallons of soil apiece . . .
in a 2 plant JOG each plant needs to fill out 3 sq ft and gets 15+ gallons of soil for their roots . . .
(experiments with 1 plant per container were also successful but require strains that really like to "bush out" and some patience too) . . .
in all honesty we've had great success with any of those plant counts - the specific results in terms of look and structure may vary a little depending on how many plants are in a container - but we've found that yields can be the same no matter . . . the primary difference is plant count vs veg time . . .
and it's funny how even in a JOG system it comes down to that basic choice . . . much like the choice between SOG and SCROG - one offers lil or no veg time and the other offers reduced plant count . . . we have tried both SOG and SCROG in our gardens and found them inferior to the Jungle of Green . . .
we reject SOG for 2 reasons - plant count and qualitative reasons . . . the plant count argument is obvious - when you pack plants into 1 or 2 per square foot plant counts will soar . . . even one plant per square foot in a moderate sized grow can lead to dangerous plant counts in jurisdictions where plant counts are a basis for determining the severity of the grower's crime in a legal sense
the qualitative difference is more a personal preference and a "gut" feeling more than something we can prove with scientific data . . . we believe that placing plants too close together causes undue stress and slightly diminishes yield and quality . . . it's not something that shows in a picture . . . it's more something we just feel . . . certainly airflow under and through the canopy improves with lower plant counts . . .
SCROG we reject for a couple of basic reasons as well . . . excessive plant stress being one, lack of flexibility once the grow has begun as another . . . and the large amount of work involved in training as a third . . . SCROG is labor intensive . . .certainly it's a labor of love for many but all the training and tying down somehow doesn't fit our more free spirited growing style . . . we already put a lot of effort into soil mixing and remixing and tweaking our grow in every way we can - so we just don't have the time for a scrog . . .
hanging a big screen across the top of our grow might be effective but it would make it difficult to rotate and move our plants - and that is an integral part of our jungle of green grow . . . our best yielding JOG features 3 x 600 watt HPS lights and as the plants grow they rotate . . .
the tallest plants end up in the center of the grow as they finish - this means they get strong side lighting to their lower branches as they finish . . . SCROG might take away our ability to get the pyramid shape in our grow which helps "fill in" the under canopy . . .
and finally we reject SCROG because our experience is that the stress inherent in training plants reduces natural plant vigor and yields . . . we came to this conclusion by growing three different strains in our 2' x 3' container system - each strain getting 2 buckets apiece . . .
we are gentle and delicate birds when it comes to handling plants . . . and we were careful when training our girls into an individual container sized SCROG . . . in each instance the plants allowed to grow and branch wild - the JOG - outproduced the SCROG . . . we felt the untrained plants grew with more health and vigor than the ones we forced into shape . . .
in the next post we'll try and fill in the details of how JOG works and how it produces outstanding quality yields in our garden . . .
we normally clone our plants directly into 4 ½ inch square planters and grow them up to around 6" or 8" under strong fluorescent lights - currently we use a combination of AgroSun, Sunstick, and daylight flourescent bulbs in standard 4' shoplight fixtures . . . experiments with VHO fluoro lights have also been very successful . . . and some T5 fluoro arrays are showing extraordinary promise for vegging plants . . . but those are expensive investments for beginning gardeners . . . and we’ve done well with standard fluoro bulbs . . .
at that height with almost all strains we will top (or top-clone) our plants to encourage branching . . . allowing a single cola to grow would not allow the canopy to fill in evenly and diminish yields . . . topping at this height encourages multiple colas and is one secret to creating the jungle of green effect . . .
after the plants have recovered from the stress of being topped - once they begin to show the development of those multiple arms we transplant them from their square planters into the 2'x3' containers . . . at this point they are around 6" in height and are pretty close to being root bound . . .
as we said - the JOG will work in a 2' x 3' container with 2, 3, or 4 plants . . . for simplicity sake in this example we'd plant 3 plants in a straight line up the center of the container . . . we then place the 2' x 3' container under at least 110 to 130 watts of VHO flourescent light . . . a pair of these containers side by side can be lit by a 400 watt MH light to great effect as well . . .
depending on the strain and it's veg vigor they will live under that bright vegging light for 10 to 15 days . . . plants that have been topped will grow more slowly in height since their energy is split between multiple colas . . . during this time their roots will be spreading into every corner of the organic soil they have been planted in . . .
as the plants in their container reach about a foot in height they are ready for the move out to HPS light and at 12/12 light cycle . . . at this point they are usually 3 squat lil bushes who are just beginning to intermingle their branches and fill in their canopy . . .
once the plants move to the bloom light cycle they normally explode in size . . . even strains known for little or no vegetative stretch will gain some height in a JOG . . . maybe that stretch is because we usually continue feeding them a grow fert mix for a few days after their move to grow . . . maybe it's because of the huge amount of soil their roots have to stretch into . . .
and once the plants are in bloom it's just a matter of rotating them through the grow as they mature . . . once a week the containers are rotated 180 degrees to encourage the plants to grow an even canopy . . . and once a week they rotate in position . . .
the very smallest plants are one side of our grow . . . and the mid-sized plants on the other far side . . . the tallest plants are in the middle . . . a lot of high tech grow systems are V shaped or stadium shaped - ours is the opposite . . . and we designed ours that way for a reason!
our system is also designed to maximize a 3 light system . . . we feel that multiple light angles are one key to producing good plant vigor, an even canopy, and high yields . . . we keep our air-cooled PL lights as close as possible to the plant's canopy to maximize the energy our plants receive . . .
since the outer plants are shorter - the outer lights are also hung lower - this sidelight helps to fill in the lower canopy of the maturing plants in the center of our grow - a detail which helps to significantly increase yields . . . with JOG some of the lower branches can produce nice "popcorn" buds which helps this system get a little edge on some other gardens . . .
airflow and control of the atmosphere are critical factors when growing in the "Jungle" for every 10 square feet of floor space in the jungle we have about 100 cfm of exhaust pulling through a large carbon filter . . . this means a 600+ cfm exhaust for a 60 square foot growing footprint . . . this assures a strong and steady supply of fresh air to the jungle . . .
For a 60 sq foot grow we recommend 2 oscillating fans also blow on the garden constantly - good airflow discourages pests and diseases while encouraging good general plant respiration . . .
a relative humidity of 60% or less is also a key . . . when humidity raises too high your plants can't breath properly and your plant's growth and vigor will both suffer . . . we are creating a solid canopy of plants with the JOG and those plants will want to breath a lot of moisture into the air - so in some locales and in some seasons a dehumidifier is a necessity for a successful JOG
hopefully that covers the basics of how the bird's do thing's a lil bit differently . . .
welcome to the jungle
We've been working on and growing in an organic "Jungle of Green" or "JOG" for some time here at the bird's nest in a system that is still evolving to this day . . . the basic concept is to create something similar to a scrog without the screen - something like a sea of green without the excessive plant counts . . .
we are not saying we "coined" the term Jungle of Green . . . it could be called a FOG - a forest of green just as easily . . . but we couldn't take credit for that name either . . . there's nothing "revolutionary" about our growing system . . . rather it's "evolutionary" . . . like the way we remix our soil . . . this grow setup simply evolved over time . . .
the basis of our system are the 2' x 3' plastic utility containers that the three_little_bird's are now infamous for growing in . . . they are just under a foot deep and will hold something in the range of 25 to 30 gallons of soil depending on how full we pack them . . . needless to say these containers are heavy so we have each of our containers on an individual furniture mover to make them mobile (and to avoid root stress when the containers are moved) . . .
in our "jungle of green" system we use a maximum of 4 plants per container and a minimum of 2 plants in each 2' x 3' container . . .
4 plants per container gives each plant 1 ½ square feet apiece and 7 to 8 gallons of soil each . . .
3 plants per container give each plant 2 square feet of space and 10+ gallons of soil apiece . . .
in a 2 plant JOG each plant needs to fill out 3 sq ft and gets 15+ gallons of soil for their roots . . .
(experiments with 1 plant per container were also successful but require strains that really like to "bush out" and some patience too) . . .
in all honesty we've had great success with any of those plant counts - the specific results in terms of look and structure may vary a little depending on how many plants are in a container - but we've found that yields can be the same no matter . . . the primary difference is plant count vs veg time . . .
and it's funny how even in a JOG system it comes down to that basic choice . . . much like the choice between SOG and SCROG - one offers lil or no veg time and the other offers reduced plant count . . . we have tried both SOG and SCROG in our gardens and found them inferior to the Jungle of Green . . .
we reject SOG for 2 reasons - plant count and qualitative reasons . . . the plant count argument is obvious - when you pack plants into 1 or 2 per square foot plant counts will soar . . . even one plant per square foot in a moderate sized grow can lead to dangerous plant counts in jurisdictions where plant counts are a basis for determining the severity of the grower's crime in a legal sense
the qualitative difference is more a personal preference and a "gut" feeling more than something we can prove with scientific data . . . we believe that placing plants too close together causes undue stress and slightly diminishes yield and quality . . . it's not something that shows in a picture . . . it's more something we just feel . . . certainly airflow under and through the canopy improves with lower plant counts . . .
SCROG we reject for a couple of basic reasons as well . . . excessive plant stress being one, lack of flexibility once the grow has begun as another . . . and the large amount of work involved in training as a third . . . SCROG is labor intensive . . .certainly it's a labor of love for many but all the training and tying down somehow doesn't fit our more free spirited growing style . . . we already put a lot of effort into soil mixing and remixing and tweaking our grow in every way we can - so we just don't have the time for a scrog . . .
hanging a big screen across the top of our grow might be effective but it would make it difficult to rotate and move our plants - and that is an integral part of our jungle of green grow . . . our best yielding JOG features 3 x 600 watt HPS lights and as the plants grow they rotate . . .
the tallest plants end up in the center of the grow as they finish - this means they get strong side lighting to their lower branches as they finish . . . SCROG might take away our ability to get the pyramid shape in our grow which helps "fill in" the under canopy . . .
and finally we reject SCROG because our experience is that the stress inherent in training plants reduces natural plant vigor and yields . . . we came to this conclusion by growing three different strains in our 2' x 3' container system - each strain getting 2 buckets apiece . . .
we are gentle and delicate birds when it comes to handling plants . . . and we were careful when training our girls into an individual container sized SCROG . . . in each instance the plants allowed to grow and branch wild - the JOG - outproduced the SCROG . . . we felt the untrained plants grew with more health and vigor than the ones we forced into shape . . .
in the next post we'll try and fill in the details of how JOG works and how it produces outstanding quality yields in our garden . . .
we normally clone our plants directly into 4 ½ inch square planters and grow them up to around 6" or 8" under strong fluorescent lights - currently we use a combination of AgroSun, Sunstick, and daylight flourescent bulbs in standard 4' shoplight fixtures . . . experiments with VHO fluoro lights have also been very successful . . . and some T5 fluoro arrays are showing extraordinary promise for vegging plants . . . but those are expensive investments for beginning gardeners . . . and we’ve done well with standard fluoro bulbs . . .
at that height with almost all strains we will top (or top-clone) our plants to encourage branching . . . allowing a single cola to grow would not allow the canopy to fill in evenly and diminish yields . . . topping at this height encourages multiple colas and is one secret to creating the jungle of green effect . . .
after the plants have recovered from the stress of being topped - once they begin to show the development of those multiple arms we transplant them from their square planters into the 2'x3' containers . . . at this point they are around 6" in height and are pretty close to being root bound . . .
as we said - the JOG will work in a 2' x 3' container with 2, 3, or 4 plants . . . for simplicity sake in this example we'd plant 3 plants in a straight line up the center of the container . . . we then place the 2' x 3' container under at least 110 to 130 watts of VHO flourescent light . . . a pair of these containers side by side can be lit by a 400 watt MH light to great effect as well . . .
depending on the strain and it's veg vigor they will live under that bright vegging light for 10 to 15 days . . . plants that have been topped will grow more slowly in height since their energy is split between multiple colas . . . during this time their roots will be spreading into every corner of the organic soil they have been planted in . . .
as the plants in their container reach about a foot in height they are ready for the move out to HPS light and at 12/12 light cycle . . . at this point they are usually 3 squat lil bushes who are just beginning to intermingle their branches and fill in their canopy . . .
once the plants move to the bloom light cycle they normally explode in size . . . even strains known for little or no vegetative stretch will gain some height in a JOG . . . maybe that stretch is because we usually continue feeding them a grow fert mix for a few days after their move to grow . . . maybe it's because of the huge amount of soil their roots have to stretch into . . .
and once the plants are in bloom it's just a matter of rotating them through the grow as they mature . . . once a week the containers are rotated 180 degrees to encourage the plants to grow an even canopy . . . and once a week they rotate in position . . .
the very smallest plants are one side of our grow . . . and the mid-sized plants on the other far side . . . the tallest plants are in the middle . . . a lot of high tech grow systems are V shaped or stadium shaped - ours is the opposite . . . and we designed ours that way for a reason!
our system is also designed to maximize a 3 light system . . . we feel that multiple light angles are one key to producing good plant vigor, an even canopy, and high yields . . . we keep our air-cooled PL lights as close as possible to the plant's canopy to maximize the energy our plants receive . . .
since the outer plants are shorter - the outer lights are also hung lower - this sidelight helps to fill in the lower canopy of the maturing plants in the center of our grow - a detail which helps to significantly increase yields . . . with JOG some of the lower branches can produce nice "popcorn" buds which helps this system get a little edge on some other gardens . . .
airflow and control of the atmosphere are critical factors when growing in the "Jungle" for every 10 square feet of floor space in the jungle we have about 100 cfm of exhaust pulling through a large carbon filter . . . this means a 600+ cfm exhaust for a 60 square foot growing footprint . . . this assures a strong and steady supply of fresh air to the jungle . . .
For a 60 sq foot grow we recommend 2 oscillating fans also blow on the garden constantly - good airflow discourages pests and diseases while encouraging good general plant respiration . . .
a relative humidity of 60% or less is also a key . . . when humidity raises too high your plants can't breath properly and your plant's growth and vigor will both suffer . . . we are creating a solid canopy of plants with the JOG and those plants will want to breath a lot of moisture into the air - so in some locales and in some seasons a dehumidifier is a necessity for a successful JOG
hopefully that covers the basics of how the bird's do thing's a lil bit differently . . .
welcome to the jungle
F
flyingfish
- 14
- 0
Been there and done that many of times with the regular garden and my favorite one
and the best way I have found is to clean a spot off the patio with the hose and then take said hose and while on a gentle shower setting spray all the dirt off and then gently separate the two ..or three plants roots with your fingers ( a kitchen sink with a sprayer will work but the dirt is an issue with the drains ya know so be sure to watch that if ya do it in the sink )
Kinda run your fingers down through the roots like ya would with a nice brunette ya know :nod
If they are real tangled I have found that if ya do it in a 5 gal pail of water it makes it easier ( the root part not the dirt removal part !..that's just making mud then ya know ) .. oh and while I stress to do it gently if ya do tear a few of the roots all is not lost since plants are way tougher than most would think ... I usually count on at least a week being added to my finish times from doing it but do it I do do at times and always successfully
Be forewarned though .. ya need to have what ever medium you are transferring to and the pot right there and get er done without hesitation since while they are tougher than ya think they do get more stressed out the longer ya play with em
Peace .and good luck
Kinda run your fingers down through the roots like ya would with a nice brunette ya know :nod
If they are real tangled I have found that if ya do it in a 5 gal pail of water it makes it easier ( the root part not the dirt removal part !..that's just making mud then ya know ) .. oh and while I stress to do it gently if ya do tear a few of the roots all is not lost since plants are way tougher than most would think ... I usually count on at least a week being added to my finish times from doing it but do it I do do at times and always successfully
Be forewarned though .. ya need to have what ever medium you are transferring to and the pot right there and get er done without hesitation since while they are tougher than ya think they do get more stressed out the longer ya play with em
Peace .and good luck
I
Inuit
- 216
- 18
because what happens is the bigger one takes over the other ones roots.
This is incorrect. One plants roots will not take over the other plants roots. Only parasitic plants do that. What will happen is that the roots will intertwine and grow together, and the more vigorous one will take over the pot leaving the smaller one stunted since it is getting less soil/water/nutes/air etc.
Look up a little bit about bonsai and you will realized that as long as the plants are past the seedling stage there will be not problem in cutting the plants apart. Don't worry about cutting roots, it will happen. If you can separate the plants, then by all means do it. If not, don't stress. I've replanted mothers in the same pot w/~75% new soil and didn't lose any of them. To the contrary, if the plant is root bound severely, they will show their appreciation for the new dirt w/lush green growth :)
Did the two plants come as one seed or two seeds/cuts. If they are seedlings from the same seed, it will be much more tricky as the roots will be intertwined much more, but if it was two separate plants planted on opposite halfs of the container, then I wouldn't worry a bit about performing the surgery.
Be safe and hth
I
This is incorrect. One plants roots will not take over the other plants roots. Only parasitic plants do that. What will happen is that the roots will intertwine and grow together, and the more vigorous one will take over the pot leaving the smaller one stunted since it is getting less soil/water/nutes/air etc.
Look up a little bit about bonsai and you will realized that as long as the plants are past the seedling stage there will be not problem in cutting the plants apart. Don't worry about cutting roots, it will happen. If you can separate the plants, then by all means do it. If not, don't stress. I've replanted mothers in the same pot w/~75% new soil and didn't lose any of them. To the contrary, if the plant is root bound severely, they will show their appreciation for the new dirt w/lush green growth :)
Did the two plants come as one seed or two seeds/cuts. If they are seedlings from the same seed, it will be much more tricky as the roots will be intertwined much more, but if it was two separate plants planted on opposite halfs of the container, then I wouldn't worry a bit about performing the surgery.
Be safe and hth
I
C
coldnorth
- 332
- 0
thx for quick awnsers, think il manage now :)
G
GrowTech
- 11
- 0
If you're still vegging, I don't see why you would have a problem separating them. Do what you want though, of course.
D
dkmonk
- 42
- 6
I guess i worded it wrong but the bigger one will get more nutrients than the smaller one and one does grow bigger. I didnt actually mean that it wraps around the roots and sucks the life out of it. I was just explaining it in simple terms so he could understand, but it does pretty much take over when they become entangled which causes the smaller plants root mass not to grow as much or absorb as much nutrients and oxygen.
sorry for the confusion, you are definatley right cannabis roots will not leech life from other roots directly
dkmonk
sorry for the confusion, you are definatley right cannabis roots will not leech life from other roots directly
dkmonk
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