25 GAL HEMPY DTW or RECIRCULATE ?'s

Confuten1

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Im currently runing hempys (60-40 hydroton/cana coco) first round went ok, but always looking to improve. With that being said, im gonna modify this round some and I had some questions.

Im deffinatly gonna be using bigger containers,

1 was in 5 gal buckets but upgrading to 15 gal- 25 gal totes

2 im swapping out the cana coco for chunky coco per some comment Jalisco Kid made about this formual being"magical" (im sure he didnt mean that in the literal sence but i got mad respect fir dude and what he suggests)

3 I did DTW as hempys are done with bout 20-30% run off, feed them every3-5 days( i got lazy some times and i think my yield could be better with more frequent waterings, baseing that on some info Dizzle has posted. Also with the chunky coco/hydroton mix im already noticing they need to be watered more(vegging plants) which brings me to why not run a RECIRCULATING system, feeding them 2-3 times a day?

4 I currently run H&G coco full line, if i did a recirculating I would run H&G aqua flakes right?

5 how long do i go inbetween rezzie changes?

6 what would be the best method to to off the rezz, i.e. just add water as needed or add water and nutes as top off?

7 if i did DTW again with more frequent waterings, could i jus use the runnoff? if the ppm comes out higher than what was put in can i just adjust ppm by adding more RO water and rePH?

8 reguarding question 7, when one speaks of salt build up, is it jus excessive nutes that didnt get uptook by plants, thus being reusable, or do these "salts" some how get motified into something plants cant uptake?

9 the 2 inch rezzie on the hempy 5 gals worked good, I did a root autopsy and everything was real healthy. When i run bigger containers should i keep a 2 inch rezzie or go smaller. Im just concerned about a gallon or 2 of water sitting stag that long. I mean is that water uptake in the hempy rezzie propotinal to the size of roots mass or...??

Alot of questions, i know. Thanks fir reading. I will be posting a grow journal whatever i decide to do. PEACE

Confu...
 

burnalot420

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cmon ppl bump^^^^^ bout to do one here soon myself,dizzle and other convinced me..almost went to uc or mpb..yikes lol
 

Confuten1

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^^^^ thnx fir the bump and intrest guys, i hope some of the pros chime in before i jus build this and fly blind.

Confu...
 
bump

whats a 2" ressy... is this the catch pan under the bucket?

also you say 5 gal was not big enough, can you give some info on your last grow
ie veg time, size, strain and ultimately yield?
 

Confuten1

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bump

whats a 2" ressy... is this the catch pan under the bucket?

also you say 5 gal was not big enough, can you give some info on your last grow
ie veg time, size, strain and ultimately yield?

by defination a hempy bucket has a 2 inch mini rez at the bottom of ur growing container(5 gal bucket) u drill out a hole 2 inch above the bottom of the bucket, hence the mini rezzie.

60+ veg, 36inch plus at flip, with alot of training, bending, lsting, and supercroppin etc.

strains; well im still in the selection process some like my jack herer runt pheno worked great others dont like vertical lighting or they are to bushie and u dont get good light penitration thus small larffy buds in the inside.

yield wise, 1lb+ per 15-25 gal container, TREES PALYER> thanks fir ur intrest TTT,

Confu...
 
Thanks for the fast response...

do the hempy buckets allow for salt to be properly flushed from our systems by just watering drain to waste, or is hempy not considered drain to waste?

Do you think you could have pulled a lb from a 5 Gallon??
 

Confuten1

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Thanks for the fast response...

do the hempy buckets allow for salt to be properly flushed from our systems by just watering drain to waste, or is hempy not considered drain to waste?

Do you think you could have pulled a lb from a 5 Gallon??
First off I'm not a vet at running hempys ( there is alot of good threads about hempys jus do a search) but I did do alot of research so with that being said; 20-30% runnoff will flush out salt build up in any set up. Regarding hemp being Dtw, good question, I think the answer is yes all setups I've seen are Dtw, mabe not all 20-30% runnoff but yes Dtw. The mini rezzie at the bottom of the bucket catches some of the runnoff and supplies water/food allowing longer breaks in between watering cycles, and alot of ppl like the convience of it. Bit for me it's not all convience, I'm more interested in yield and if it is understood that more frequent waterings will help yield than that's the direction I want to go; thus the hempy recirculating watering 3-4 times a day plus I might save some on my nutes by being more efficient.
Regarding pulling 1# on a 5 gal I haven't seem it done. I think best case like 10oz, bit I could be wrong, it never ceases to amaze me what ppl on the farm here do!

Confu...
 
Having not run hempy's I can't answer all the question but can answer some and give you my thoughts on where Im heading with my setup

1 was in 5 gal buckets but upgrading to 15 gal- 25 gal totes

Thats were im headed after seeing dizzles grow!!!

2 im swapping out the cana coco for chunky coco per some comment Jalisco Kid made about this formual being"magical" (im sure he didnt mean that in the literal sence but i got mad respect fir dude and what he suggests)

Don't like hydroton personally, like perlite a lot better like Dizzle. I used hydroton for over a year but once I get my new setup going I am running with perlite. I did an experiment with really chunky mix, big chunky orchid perlite, and coir chunks and hand watered it; just couldn't keep it wet enough. I think coco chunks would be great if you are going to water them more often. I will probably run a similar mix of perlite, coco chunks, and a bit of regular coco.

3 I did DTW as hempys are done with bout 20-30% run off, feed them every3-5 days( i got lazy some times and i think my yield could be better with more frequent waterings, baseing that on some info Dizzle has posted. Also with the chunky coco/hydroton mix im already noticing they need to be watered more(vegging plants) which brings me to why not run a RECIRCULATING system, feeding them 2-3 times a day?

Two reasons for run off, 1) salt build up and 2) nutrient imbalance. Over time salts can build up if you keep adding more fertilizer to the rez/pot than the plants are using, which are still usuable by the plant. Also the plants can select nutrients out of solution that they want so you can get imbalances/lockout if the ratio of nutrients get to extreme in your res over time. If you water more often then you need less run off. Over time it will equal the same amount of total run off. Dizzle I think said he is doing continues watering and just has a tiny trickle each time for run-off.

4 I currently run H&G coco full line, if i did a recirculating I would run H&G aqua flakes right? No clue make my own fert.

5 how long do i go inbetween rezzie changes? I found that a week is good not so much that any difference in growth more just keeps everything nice and clean. I found that just crap would gub up my rez after about this point. However I have run over a month just keeping ppms and pH in line and didn't really see any negative effects. I personally am going to stick to a week however.

6 what would be the best method to to off the rezz, i.e. just add water as needed or add water and nutes as top off?

Depends. I know some that like to start with a high PPM and then just let it drift down over the week, so they just add water. Others like to keep the ppm stable. I lean more to the stable side. I keeped mine at 800ppm until two days before res change then just added water.

7 if i did DTW again with more frequent waterings, could i jus use the runnoff? if the ppm comes out higher than what was put in can i just adjust ppm by adding more RO water and rePH?

Once you start using the run off it is no longer DTW. Again there is a big debate about nutrient ratios getting messed up. I think if you are going to go drain to waste do what dizzle does and shoot for just a little bit each time. If you are going to go reciculating, well I would really get a lot of run off. Overkill never hurts.

8 reguarding question 7, when one speaks of salt build up, is it jus excessive nutes that didnt get uptook by plants, thus being reusable, or do these "salts" some how get motified into something plants cant uptake?

Nutrients are still avaible to the plants. Big thing is over time plants use different nutrients in different ratios. For example they might be using up the nitrogen a lot faster than phosophurs so over time you might see a nitrogen def. This is why they say change your rez every week or two. Just to reset the nutrient levels (also get ride of any bad stuff growing or debrie).

9 the 2 inch rezzie on the hempy 5 gals worked good, I did a root autopsy and everything was real healthy. When i run bigger containers should i keep a 2 inch rezzie or go smaller. Im just concerned about a gallon or 2 of water sitting stag that long. I mean is that water uptake in the hempy rezzie propotinal to the size of roots mass or...??

I would think (and again no actually experience with hempies) if you want to water less get a bigger rez at the bottom of the pot. If you are water a few times a day with a big bucket then you can use a smaller rez, of just let water drain out the bottom. From my understanding the rez at the bottom is just a way of not having to water as often but still getting the benefit of hydro do to capilary action. I think there is an upper limit on how big you would actually want it as I am sure salt build up would be a huge problem if you tried to water to infrequantly. Also I feel hempies would be limited in how big a pot you can use as capillary action can only occur so high. Had to learn the equation for one of my soil classes. Therefore for hempy's a short fat pot would be a lot better than a skinny tall pot as if it gets to tall then the tops would remain dry.

Im going to do hempies first for the simple reason is it is very flexible to start while I set everything up. As I dial in my system I am going to just go to continues drip reserculating personally (with no standing water in the bottom of the pots). Again I like to keep it simple, I have tried all different timing schedules and stuff for drip and personally just like continues. No timers, no worrying about if you need to increase the watering frequency. I did that in strait hydroton. Worked great, really healthy roots. One pump died and they actually can go a long time without needing to be watered. I hand watered 2 times a day for 2 days and they didn't have crazy growth but still were growing and no sign of water stress. Once I got a new pump they took off right away.

Well hopefully this starts some discussion.

Cheers
 

Confuten1

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Having not run hempy's I can't answer all the question but can answer some and give you my thoughts on where Im heading with my setup

1 was in 5 gal buckets but upgrading to 15 gal- 25 gal totes

Thats were im headed after seeing dizzles grow!!!

2 im swapping out the cana coco for chunky coco per some comment Jalisco Kid made about this formual being"magical" (im sure he didnt mean that in the literal sence but i got mad respect fir dude and what he suggests)

Don't like hydroton personally, like perlite a lot better like Dizzle. I used hydroton for over a year but once I get my new setup going I am running with perlite. I did an experiment with really chunky mix, big chunky orchid perlite, and coir chunks and hand watered it; just couldn't keep it wet enough. I think coco chunks would be great if you are going to water them more often. I will probably run a similar mix of perlite, coco chunks, and a bit of regular coco.

3 I did DTW as hempys are done with bout 20-30% run off, feed them every3-5 days( i got lazy some times and i think my yield could be better with more frequent waterings, baseing that on some info Dizzle has posted. Also with the chunky coco/hydroton mix im already noticing they need to be watered more(vegging plants) which brings me to why not run a RECIRCULATING system, feeding them 2-3 times a day?

Two reasons for run off, 1) salt build up and 2) nutrient imbalance. Over time salts can build up if you keep adding more fertilizer to the rez/pot than the plants are using, which are still usuable by the plant. Also the plants can select nutrients out of solution that they want so you can get imbalances/lockout if the ratio of nutrients get to extreme in your res over time. If you water more often then you need less run off. Over time it will equal the same amount of total run off. Dizzle I think said he is doing continues watering and just has a tiny trickle each time for run-off. I feel more comfortable with flooding the grow medium espaciall witht the 60-40 hydroton/chunky coco "chow mix" to insure the whole root mass gets wet. i guess with other mediums there is more capilary action but it doesnt seem like that with this mix. So dripping with litle runnoff doesnt seem like it would saturate the whole root mass, or am i wrong?

4 I currently run H&G coco full line, if i did a recirculating I would run H&G aqua flakes right? No clue make my own fert.respect on mixing ur own salts, some day mee too, not yet though im still trying to master other things and have way to many progects/experiments going now.

5 how long do i go inbetween rezzie changes? I found that a week is good not so much that any difference in growth more just keeps everything nice and clean. I found that just crap would gub up my rez after about this point. However I have run over a month just keeping ppms and pH in line and didn't really see any negative effects. I personally am going to stick to a week however.I was thinkin a week 2 based on what i have read, i guess i wont know forsure untill, i see what my plants want/how they uptake nutes, Im leaning to mixing up a batch of nutes based on H&G recomended dosegage( they suggest u runnin hot, ive tried it with good results) but I wanted to let the PH drift a little as the plants uptake over say a week only topping off with RO and re PHing, Ive read that plants uptake some nutes better at diffrent PH so a drift(within reason ) might be benifical right? Also Ive follwed Dizzle and he flushes every few waterings withlow ppm so as they uptake and i top off it would kinda do the same thing right?

6 what would be the best method to to off the rezz, i.e. just add water as needed or add water and nutes as top off?

Depends. I know some that like to start with a high PPM and then just let it drift down over the week, so they just add water. Others like to keep the ppm stable. I lean more to the stable side. I keeped mine at 800ppm until two days before res change then just added water.As you metioned above plants uptake npk diffrently, so I wold think keeping stable ppm would be dangerous reguarding building up to hot on the npk that they are takin up less off?

7 if i did DTW again with more frequent waterings, could i jus use the runnoff? if the ppm comes out higher than what was put in can i just adjust ppm by adding more RO water and rePH?

Once you start using the run off it is no longer DTW. Again there is a big debate about nutrient ratios getting messed up. I think if you are going to go drain to waste do what dizzle does and shoot for just a little bit each time. If you are going to go reciculating, well I would really get a lot of run off. Overkill never hurts.For you recirculating guys, If I had say 125 gallons of grow medium, how big of a rezzie and how much feed would i mix up at a time? changing every week?

8 reguarding question 7, when one speaks of salt build up, is it jus excessive nutes that didnt get uptook by plants, thus being reusable, or do these "salts" some how get motified into something plants cant uptake?

Nutrients are still avaible to the plants. Big thing is over time plants use different nutrients in different ratios. For example they might be using up the nitrogen a lot faster than phosophurs so over time you might see a nitrogen def. This is why they say change your rez every week or two. Just to reset the nutrient levels (also get ride of any bad stuff growing or debrie).

9 the 2 inch rezzie on the hempy 5 gals worked good, I did a root autopsy and everything was real healthy. When i run bigger containers should i keep a 2 inch rezzie or go smaller. Im just concerned about a gallon or 2 of water sitting stag that long. I mean is that water uptake in the hempy rezzie propotinal to the size of roots mass or...??

I would think (and again no actually experience with hempies) if you want to water less get a bigger rez at the bottom of the pot. If you are water a few times a day with a big bucket then you can use a smaller rez, of just let water drain out the bottom. From my understanding the rez at the bottom is just a way of not having to water as often but still getting the benefit of hydro do to capilary action. I think there is an upper limit on how big you would actually want it as I am sure salt build up would be a huge problem if you tried to water to infrequantly. Also I feel hempies would be limited in how big a pot you can use as capillary action can only occur so high. Had to learn the equation for one of my soil classes. Therefore for hempy's a short fat pot would be a lot better than a skinny tall pot as if it gets to tall then the tops would remain dry. Yeah im leaning towards the totes dizzle and everybody uses for the MPBs but not stacking them though, I would go 75% full of medium so the would be shallow and wide, I guess if i was going recirculating and often, i wouldnt need a rezzie huh?

Im going to do hempies first for the simple reason is it is very flexible to start while I set everything up. As I dial in my system I am going to just go to continues drip reserculating personally (with no standing water in the bottom of the pots). Again I like to keep it simple, I have tried all different timing schedules and stuff for drip and personally just like continues. No timers, no worrying about if you need to increase the watering frequency. I did that in strait hydroton. Worked great, really healthy roots. One pump died and they actually can go a long time without needing to be watered. I hand watered 2 times a day for 2 days and they didn't have crazy growth but still were growing and no sign of water stress. Once I got a new pump they took off right away.

Well hopefully this starts some discussion.

Cheers
I just noticed a cal def with some of my vegging plants only the ones with the chunky coco, others have canna coco in place of it with no defficiencies, im guessing that since their same strain its the diffrent coco i used, canna is precharged/flushed chunky was not. I did flush/charge it with 100ppm cal mag and 100ppm base nutes until i got a runnoff under 450ppm, anybody know if i should have had a lower runnoff when rincing the chunky coco. If i cant fix this then im jus gonna scratch the chow mix and go with the 4/1 perilite to coco mix like Dizzle...
Thanks fir chiming in mr.tortoise. I really appriciate it, and good luck with ur grow. R u posting a journal, mabe we can compare notes, sounds like it will be pretty similar.
CONFU...
 
I feel more comfortable with flooding the grow medium espaciall witht the 60-40 hydroton/chunky coco "chow mix" to insure the whole root mass gets wet. i guess with other mediums there is more capilary action but it doesnt seem like that with this mix. So dripping with litle runnoff doesnt seem like it would saturate the whole root mass, or am i wrong?

I used one 2L/hr dripper per 4 gallon pot of straight hydroton and there was enough capillary action that just the top few inches were dry. I got sick of drippers (found they clogged way to much) and just went with straight 1/4 tubbing with just mannual control of flow rate at the slitter. If I go with 20 gallon totes I am planning on making two sets of dripper rings and just pumping a lot of water through the pot. I am sure that a little run off would work (can only guess with coco chunks but I would say yes) and I would go that route if you are doing DTW. But if you are doing recirculating just blasted them with water and get a lot of run-off. This is the route I would go. But this to me is just a DTW drip system not hempy. I would go with holes straight on the bottom of the pot. To me hempies are all about easy use and very very little to go wrong. Having water in the bottom of the pot makes it possible to go a few days without watering. If you do DTW drip with holes at the bottom and a pump fails plan on watering at least twice a day till you get a new pump. If you are watering a few times a day I don't know if the standing water at the bottom of the pot is needed. To me it might be more of a safety thing if something goes wrong. I would worry about the water loosing oxygen though and a site for disease. Maybe others with more hempy experience could answer this better.

respect on mixing ur own salts, some day mee too, not yet though im still trying to master other things and have way to many progects/experiments going now. Not hard. Get Peter's (I think) 7-11-27 hydro mix (I used Plant Products new one) and calcium nitrate with potassium phosphate and epson salt and your good to go.

.I was thinkin a week 2 based on what i have read, i guess i wont know forsure untill, i see what my plants want/how they uptake nutes, Im leaning to mixing up a batch of nutes based on H&G recomended dosegage( they suggest u runnin hot, ive tried it with good results) but I wanted to let the PH drift a little as the plants uptake over say a week only topping off with RO and re PHing, Ive read that plants uptake some nutes better at diffrent PH so a drift(within reason ) might be benifical right? Also Ive follwed Dizzle and he flushes every few waterings withlow ppm so as they uptake and i top off it would kinda do the same thing right?

I like changing out each week. Just keeps everything cleaner. In terms of pH I would aim between 5.5 and 6. For me I tended to be between 5.3 and 6.3 with more towards the higher side. If it was anywhere in that range I didn't care. Anything out of that range I would correct it. I like to keep things steady. For ppms I like to run at 800 and tried to keep them there. Changing the res every week even every month I didn't find nutrients went that far out of balance. I never flushed my pots but I would take my water from my res and hand water each pot once a week. I just had a big watering can and would fill it up and just put the whole thing in one pot. Never had salt buildups in the drippers or the pots.

As you metioned above plants uptake npk diffrently, so I wold think keeping stable ppm would be dangerous reguarding building up to hot on the npk that they are takin up less off?

Again if you change your solution each week not a problem. This becomes a problem when you run your nutrient solution for a long time. In commercial greenhouses were waste nutrient solution is a big problem they go to great length to keep using there solution as long as possible. I have seen people go 2 months without changing their rez. I have done a month. So if changing every week I would do what ever is easiest. I liked giving them a bit of fresh nutrients everyday. Just personal preference (I really doubt it helped yield compared to say running 1000ppm to start and letting it drift to say 600ppm by the end of the week).

For you recirculating guys, If I had say 125 gallons of grow medium, how big of a rezzie and how much feed would i mix up at a time? changing every week?


Don't know. 4 x 8 tables with 8 4 gallon pots I ran 15 gal (60L) rez. And it was to small. I ended using 25 gal (100L) and it worked. I used that small due to space. The bigger the better as everything is a lot more stable the bigger you have. I was planning on 25 gal per 20 gal tote. However I have never done a 20 gal tote so might need more, don't know.

I just noticed a cal def with some of my vegging plants only the ones with the chunky coco, others have canna coco in place of it with no defficiencies, im guessing that since their same strain its the diffrent coco i used, canna is precharged/flushed chunky was not. I did flush/charge it with 100ppm cal mag and 100ppm base nutes until i got a runnoff under 450ppm, anybody know if i should have had a lower runnoff when rincing the chunky coco. If i cant fix this then im jus gonna scratch the chow mix and go with the 4/1 perilite to coco mix like Dizzle..

In coco with canna AB I always used calmag (RO water). Number one problem I see in coco is calmag. Now I tell people just to use it if running coco. Good insurance. Use calmag and they will get through it.

Won't be posting anything any time soon. Waiting for my permit to show up. Then I think I will just post more about my quest to find new strains. Have some chimera fighting buddha, mandala hashberry, a freebie of mixed skunkman seeds and seeds from previous grows. Will just be growing them out in straight coco looking for moms. But I will definetly be around on the forums posting what I can about what Im up too.

Peace
 
you need to get some 3 gallon containers fill them with coco and learn how to grow. all this other bull shit is going to confuse you. use coco you have good nutes run to 20% waist so you know you're flushing the old salts out...

hempy as a rez so you don't have to water as much doesn't make sense, IF you just use more coco to hold the nutrient you wanted the rez to hold. forget the rez, you will probably find you get high concentrations of salt build up in that bottom inch of the container which could cause lockout or burn. probably why dizzle does a huge flush between however many feedings. he has to get the nutrient in the containers rez out.

i thought when i started i had cal mag. i was underfeeding them and i was getting necrotic spots and light green down the vain. found i can feed at 1.2 ec from rooted plug and go up from there. feeding every time with runoff is working for me.. and i don't have to feed every day or every 3 days, i can go 7. can't get easier than that. i think perlite helps add to aeration, but anything over 40% sounds retarded. the coco will hold the nutrient and the plants roots will draw it out when it needs it
 

Confuten1

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"you need to get some 3 gallon containers fill them with coco and learn how to grow. all this other bull shit is going to confuse you. use coco you have good nutes run to 20% waist so you know you're flushing the old salts out..."


UMM, this is nowhere near what i was intrested in doing or related to the questions i asked-----> :sign0065:

Confu...
 
sorry you asked so many questions that it didn't seem you knew what the hell was going on. saw your pics and those look great. i would stick to 5 gallon of straight coco because it is already airy and even when they are 4 weeks into flower you will still only need to water every 5 days to waist. i'd be worried with 20 gallons, it would be more difficult to maintain the ec and ph in the medium. i'm walking away from using perlite. do one plant in a larger container and see if that makes a winning difference for you. you will know next run. i've got something like that in 5 gallon 7 and 10. all coco, they are all the same size about, i don't think 10 was worth while. 7 seems good for me at 4 per light horizontal.

but i'm not going to waist money running nutrients down the drain all day because i added so much perlite to my mix
 

Confuten1

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sorry you asked so many questions that it didn't seem you knew what the hell was going on. saw your pics and those look great. i would stick to 5 gallon of straight coco because it is already airy and even when they are 4 weeks into flower you will still only need to water every 5 days to waist. i'd be worried with 20 gallons, it would be more difficult to maintain the ec and ph in the medium. i'm walking away from using perlite. do one plant in a larger container and see if that makes a winning difference for you. you will know next run. i've got something like that in 5 gallon 7 and 10. all coco, they are all the same size about, i don't think 10 was worth while. 7 seems good for me at 4 per light horizontal.

but i'm not going to waist money running nutrients down the drain all day because i added so much perlite to my mix
How long r u vegging for, and why r u "walking from perlite"?
Also ill be 2 plants per light this run, last time was 4 like u said.

thnx,
Confu...
 
well for one grow that uses 5 gallon containers 4 plants to each light gets a nice 2 month veg in 2.5 gallons of coco. by the time they are ready to be put in the 5 gallon containers they had been needing to drink every 3 days. in the 5 gallons they veg for another week and get veg nutes the first 2 weeks of flower and i can water them every 5 days. that's enough for me. use a pump and a wand and give each 5 gallon plant 3 gallons of feed so i get good runoff to keep the mediums ph and ec balanced. i don't think perlite adds much and the dust is a pain.

i'd rather buy bricked coco off ebay. soak it, then fill the 5 gallon containers and give it a 10 minute full strength flush through your hose or bathroom tub and then water it with nutrients and it is as good as canna, instead of cheaping up my canna mix with added perlite. i'm doing a comparison, in 10 minutes the 5 gallons got all the piss looking salt out of them and were at my taps ec. the plants in the generic coco looks the same as the plants in the canna, but the price difference was ridiculous. over 200%

i should have given 5 veg plants 50/50 perlite coco, to really get the answer to this question. you should do it. i'll do it my next run.

but i'd say 2 plants in 10 gallons of pure coco with a 2 month veg would turn out awesome under a 1000 watt and you would only need to feed every week hopefully.

sorry about coming across as an ass hole earlier, those plants were top class quality
 
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