4 600s or 3 1000s

  • Thread starter Bobby Smith
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
B

Bobby Smith

Sorry in advance for the long-windedness.

Firstly, a really quick hello (again) to all you farmers out there.

Secondly, tore my old setup down, selling it, and am going to start building my new setup within a week (hopefully) when I've gotten my garage emptied out.

I see a lot of threads like these and think it's just some bored kid who will never do what he's talking about, but I can assure all reading this: THIS IS NOT A TEST, AND YOUR INPUT WILL BE VALUED AND USED TO MAKE MY DECISION (will also do my grow journal here as well, if that matters).

Sooooo.......I'll save you the rest of the extraneous details, and cut to the chase - flowering "system" is gonna be an El Blastido Octagon, but gonna build two more (if not three more) levels on it and give it a little more lighting horsepower.

Here's his:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=17863

The dimensions of his system are 5' diameter and 4' tall, which he lit with 2 600s (aircooled).

Mine is going to be 5' diameter and 6-7' tall, and my question for youz guys (and gals) is if you'd go with 4 600s or 3 1Ks for lighting it - they're both gonna be cooltubed, and since I don't DIY anything I can buy, it's gonna be from this place: http://octagonhydroponics.com/grow-lighting-vertical-systems.html

The system will certainly be more efficient and have a higher g/w ratio with the 6's, but will produce more bud with the 1Ks; however, the issue of keeping the lighting intensity consistent throughout the canopy is my biggest concern.

FYI, whether I go with 600s or 1000s, they're going to be dimmable ballasts to help ease the plants into the system and try to minimize any light shock.

So finally, would love to hear other's thoughts on the issue, and ESPECIALLY anyone who's ever experimented with the different lighting intensities in a Cage, Coliseum, or any other vert octagon-ish setup.

Thanks in advance for your time and replies.

-Bob
 
S

Snafu

i would run 600's since they are the most efficient and you have more lights with less power used and you are able to keep the lights closer to the plants and you dont loose as much lumens (for every 1 ft (30.48 cm) of travel the light loses a good deal of lumens)

my 2¢ hope it helps
 
F

farmerjohn

The plan sounds good, B S. I love the idea of the dimmable ballast on the 1000Wers! If the area is 5' in diameter, is 2400 to 3000W needed? Perhaps you have already hashed it out & know it's gonna be fine, but that is a lot of horsepower for the space!
 
B

Bobby Smith

The plan sounds good, B S. I love the idea of the dimmable ballast on the 1000Wers! If the area is 5' in diameter, is 2400 to 3000W needed? Perhaps you have already hashed it out & know it's gonna be fine, but that is a lot of horsepower for the space!
Lol, it's definitely "plenty" of light for the space, but it's not ridiculous over the top, I don't believe - the system I'm building is pretty comparable to a Coliseum in terms of spacing/sizing, and 2400-3000 watts was pretty typical for those grows.

"i would run 600's since they are the most efficient and you have more lights with less power used and you are able to keep the lights closer to the plants and you dont loose as much lumens (for every 1 ft (30.48 cm) of travel the light loses a good deal of lumens)

my 2¢ hope it helps "

Thanks for your input, Snafu - I'm definitely down with efficiency, but first and foremost I'm interested in quality - have always used 1Ks, never 600s, and wanna make sure I can get the quality I'm used to from 600s if I decide to go that route.

As an aside, congrats to both of you - have decided to just make this thread my construction thread, and you two are the first to the party :rock
 
B

Bobby Smith

The First Real Post

Okay, well I said I was gonna make this my design/construction thread, and I am.

So here goes.

I have a garage which is "kinda" insulated, but gets dummy hot in the summer (like 100F) and dummy cold in the winter (like 20F).

So in order to grow the danky dank that we all want, I need to control my grow area a little better (although the quality of my first two runs was very good, I know the second run could've been better with better temp control).

An issue I have is that there are no windows in my garage, and having a mini-split is not acceptable for security reasons (we all don't live in Cali, bishes), so I had to be creative.

I think I might've found the solution in my crawlspace - the temp down there is 68F right now, and that's in the dead of summer when outside temps are 90F+ here.

Going to build a 12x8 room in there (bout 8' tall) to house both my veg and flower areas (flower will be a DIY Coliseum with either 2400 or 3K watts, depending on responses I get in this thread), and gonna try to run it pretty much sealed with Ice Boxes, a reservoir, and a 1/2HP chiller (both the chiller and rez will be located in the crawlspace, which is 67ish right now and will probably get down to 50-55F during the winter, so keeping an insulated rez at 60F shouldn't be too difficult).

To do this (i.e., for a 1/2 HP chiller to be able to cool that room), gonna need temps in the garage to not get too much above 85F even on the hottest days, which I hope to accomplish with a 4" inline (175CFM) pulling air from my crawlspace and a 6" inline (425CFM) exhausting that air through a gable vent in my garage.

So the task for today was to run 6" ducting from the crawlspace to the garage, which turned out to be a pain in the ass.

The pics are pretty self-explanatory; broke a couple of saw blades trying to cut, and had to go buy a more powerful drill to fit the 6" hole saw and almost broke my arm (I'm a large man, but wasn't ready for the torque of a 10 amp drill).

Long story short, got it done, and it ain't professional grade, but it gets the job done.

Tomorrow, gonna setup the 4" inline for intake through that ductwork, and gonna setup the 6" inline with filter for exhaust through the gable vent.

If I get that done early enough, gonna start building the 12x8 base for the room inside a room.
 
B

Boomer242

i didnt realize u were doin a vert octogon setup when we talked last. i mite have to lean towards teh 600ws for the multiple hot spots and more even spread of the lumens. its 600w less yes but like u mentioned; vert lighting is always a higher gpw (if done correctly)

did u ever follow jigfreshs setup over at RIU? if not u should check it. he ran 600w and 1000w in his closet DIY vert setup. he actually did a vertical scrog too. pretty sick. ill throw in a link if u want.

anyways im subbin for now to help get u rollin with watever i can contribute.
 
B

Boomer242

oh and the 600ws will run way cooler IMO. especially air cooled; i can touch mine and hold it forever (on a horizontal hood fyi)
 
B

Bobby Smith

i didnt realize u were doin a vert octogon setup when we talked last. i mite have to lean towards teh 600ws for the multiple hot spots and more even spread of the lumens. its 600w less yes but like u mentioned; vert lighting is always a higher gpw (if done correctly)

did u ever follow jigfreshs setup over at RIU? if not u should check it. he ran 600w and 1000w in his closet DIY vert setup. he actually did a vertical scrog too. pretty sick. ill throw in a link if u want.

anyways im subbin for now to help get u rollin with watever i can contribute.
Yeah, I followed along with Jigfresh over at RIU; nice grow(s) and gave me a couple nice ideas.

And as far as the hot spots go, I'm not sure how much more beneficial 4 is to 3; I would think the benefits would decrease exponentially, but I don't know that for a fact.

Anyhow, I'm still leaning towards 3 1Ks........gonna run that intake and exhaust in the garage for the next few days while I'm still framing out the structure, and if the temps can stay <=82ish, then I'm pretty sure I can keep the 1Ks cool enough.

As long as I'm taking up the whole garage anyways, might as well shoot for 20% (because you're not gonna get 25% more because of the lack of efficiency) more each harvest, no?
 
B

Bobby Smith

oh and the 600ws will run way cooler IMO. especially air cooled; i can touch mine and hold it forever (on a horizontal hood fyi)
I'm gonna use either the 3L1000 or the 4L600 from this site: http://octagonhydroponics.com/grow-lighting-vertical-systems.html

They recommend 600CFM per tube, but I was planning on a 6" inline (425CFM) pushing through one end and an identical 6" pulling through the end of it, so a total of 850CFM moving through it.

Hope that, coupled with the cooler air from the crawlspace, coupled with running the flowering lights at night will help me keep it cool.
 
B

Boomer242

im all for the 1000ws. i just dont know about any heat issues but with good cooling i think ur legit bro go for it. id rather have the increase in lumens as well. i just dont wanna lead u in the wrong direction
 
S

Snafu

did u ever follow jigfreshs setup over at RIU? if not u should check it. he ran 600w and 1000w in his closet DIY vert setup. he actually did a vertical scrog too. pretty sick. ill throw in a link if u want.

anyways im subbin for now to help get u rollin with watever i can contribute.
i would be interested in those links! i am looking into vertical gardening
 
B

Boomer242

i would be interested in those links! i am looking into vertical gardening
im sure bob wont mind;


Jigfresh's vert DIY closet setup


Jackmayoffer's 60x1000w vert shop


in jacks thread theres a good blueprint for vert lighting spacing and height. very important to achieve max results on the gpw scale. ull have a field day searchin thru the 75 pages tho lol. its a good read for either link. lots of chatter but good info if u can skim thru
 
B

Bobby Smith

im all for the 1000ws. i just dont know about any heat issues but with good cooling i think ur legit bro go for it. id rather have the increase in lumens as well. i just dont wanna lead u in the wrong direction
Yeah, that's pretty much how I'm leaning........the good news is that I have plenty of time until I get enough clones to flower out in that fucker, so I'll be able to run some temp experiments in the interim.

Shooting to have the whole thing basically built within 10 days-ish save for the lights, cooltube, and octagon, and then I'll run some temp experiments to see where I can get it to; if I can get it down to the low to mid 60s in there during the day when it's 90+ out, I'm pretty confident I'll be able to run three 1Ks at night and keep the temps reasonable.

Another issue with the 1Ks is that I only have three 20amp/120V circuits in my garage, and I don't know how to re-wire them for 240V (although two are brand new dedicated circuits with only one outlet each that I had an electrician put in for me a few months ago, so I think they'd be pretty easy, but again, I'm clueless), so I'd have to have one light on each circuit, and only a few hundred watts "leftover" on each...........that would be a problem if it turned out that the 1/2 HP chiller wasn't sufficient, because I wouldn't be able to run a 1HP without re-wiring.

Anyhow, have gotten NOTHING done today because some piece of shit hacker wrote a virus which destroyed my computer and I've been inside all day reinstalling all the software.

Fucking loser computer nerd twat.
 
B

Boomer242

oh man u gotta change ur power asap. thats huge to me. 240v saves power, saves the ballast and bulb, and leaves room for more equip. anytime sumthing can be converted to 240v (ballsts, chillers, etc) do it.

i know u dont have 240v available but id seriously rec gettin a licensed elect in there or hiring my pops to wire u in a subpanel or just change out existing breakers to 2pull 240v breakers. u can always take a shot at it urself if u go to like homedepot and talk with the guys and get an idea. but elect is nuthin to mess with not knowing wat ure doing. but if u need sum more suggestions how to get shit converted without detection ill try and help
 
B

Bobby Smith

Yeah, it's pretty fucked up.......only had 20 amps going to the garage before I started and realized I'd need more, so had an electrician come out and give me forty more amps there...........told him it was for a kegerator and an AC, and he made sure to ask "do you need 240V for the AC?" to which I obviously replied "nah dude, 120 is golden".

I'm an asshole, no bout a doubt it.

Instead of me asking how to do it on a dedicated line (he gave me two, each with its own outlet in there), I'm simply gonna ask:

How much should I pay an electrician to come change it for me? I.e., what's a fair price?

EDIT: Unless it's so easy that even I couldn't screw it up, which some people seem to think it is.
 
B

Boomer242

elect is not easy. the people who think so have the experience. i have sum and i dont even feel comfortable ever telling sumone how to wire shit cuz i dont want to be responsible for sumones death.

but idk wat a fair price is honestly. this recession has prices dropped for anyone still in biz tryin to stay afloat im sure u can find sumone.
just say u didnt understand theres a diff between 240/120v and ud like it switched to 240v instead. shouldnt be too much. if u decide to do a subpanel like mine then thats a diff story. ill post pix in my journal
 
B

Bobby Smith

A 1/2HP chiller w/ IceBoxes is not going to offset the lighting.

1/3HP PER 1k minimum.
RCMG, that's if running a totally sealed room (heat from lights stays in room).

I'll be running this:

http://octagonhydroponics.com/grow-lighting-vertical-systems.html

which will draw air in from the garage and exhaust back into the garage, thereby (hopefully) removing much of the heat produced by the lights from the room, so (in theory) the ice boxes wouldn't have to cool a whole helluva lot - assuming I can keep the garage around 75-80F when lights are on (night time), I'm pretty sure I could keep it at 85F inside the room.

Also, the reservoir is going to be located in my crawlspace, where it's 55-60F (if not lower) for 8-9 months of the year, anyways, so the chiller won't be doing that much work, I don't believe - if I could fit a big enough reservoir down there I could do away with the chiller entirely, but the headspace is an issue.

Now, the question of the day:

HOW MUCH BETTER IS A 1/2HP CHILLER THAN TWO 1/4HP CHILLERS? :help:

Seems like I can get two 1/4HPs a lot easier (and cheaper) than I could get a 1/2HP, so I'm wondering how much less effective they'd be.

Figure it'd be a nice failsafe in case one of them went down, as well.

Also, with headroom an issue down there, the shorter stature of the 1/4s would be beneficial.
 
B

Bobby Smith

elect is not easy. the people who think so have the experience. i have sum and i dont even feel comfortable ever telling sumone how to wire shit cuz i dont want to be responsible for sumones death.

but idk wat a fair price is honestly. this recession has prices dropped for anyone still in biz tryin to stay afloat im sure u can find sumone.
just say u didnt understand theres a diff between 240/120v and ud like it switched to 240v instead. shouldnt be too much. if u decide to do a subpanel like mine then thats a diff story. ill post pix in my journal
The outlet actually says "KEG" next to it because I told the first electrician that I needed the two circuits for a kegerator and AC, so I'm just gonna tell the dude that the kegerator runs on 240V and not 120V.

Just not sure if it's worth it to move all the shit outta there and halt construction for a couple days (realistically) for that wiring change.
 
B

Boomer242

The outlet actually says "KEG" next to it because I told the first electrician that I needed the two circuits for a kegerator and AC, so I'm just gonna tell the dude that the kegerator runs on 240V and not 120V.

Just not sure if it's worth it to move all the shit outta there and halt construction for a couple days (realistically) for that wiring change.
i know its a shitload of work to move everything out but id think about doing it. either way should b a legit setup
 
Top Bottom