860w phillips cdm

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stutter

stutter

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i have been salivating over them for a while now. i currently run a custom made dual lamp hood which has 2 x 400w phillips cdm lamps. my results have been nothing short of spectacular. but i suspect the 860w would be even better when paired with an OG vertical hood. keep in mind they can only be run vertical which is one reason i havnt got them yet. it would cost too much for me to change all my lighting and hoods etc

IMG 3928
IMG 3934
IMG 3943


the full spectrum of these lights makes them ideal for both veg and bloom and i swear they rpoduce more colour, flavour, resin and potency. not to mention plants just grow better under them. people say yields are effected but i dont think they are at all, and if it is the increase in quality makes up for it IMO
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Appreciate the grow report, stutter- mighty fine lookin' ladies in those pics you got there!

I followed the OP's link and found that this bulb will emit UV:

9.5 mW/cm2 UVA
0.3 mW/cm2 UVB
0.3 mW/cm2 UVC

From other research, I learned that UVA isn't very helpful, but UVB has been shown to reliably increase the amount of resin expressed on the plant's surface. This may help explain your observations of improved quality using this lighting tech.
 
stutter

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i couldnt get the link to work for some reason. oh well.

i checked out your thread tty. its an awesome idea.

they run on a 1000w MH ballast from memory. wish i could get into that link to be sure
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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"Direct retrofit for both probe and pulse start magnetic ballasts (not suitable for operation on electronic ballasts)"
This means mh or hps ballasts are both okay, as long as they're magnetic?

Life: 20,000hrs
Lumen maintenance @10% life: 85%
Lumen maintenance @ 40% life: 79.3%

Those Lumen maintenance numbers are rough compared to hps in general, and to Philips' own Green Power Proline 1000DE hps in particular: this bulb is guaranteed to maintain at least 95% of initial Lumen rating after 10,000 hours, or three full years of operation!
 
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if you can go check out the spectral output its a whole new world of light.

Knipsel zps2c421572
Images 1
 
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now im not all that smart so im just assuming that the 1,0 on the CDM chart is equal to the 100 on the HPS chart.

if so the CDM is peaking well above the HPS even in the red spectrums.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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To be precise, the two graphs use completely different scales. Fortunately, what's important about them can be clearly seen anyway. The 840w cdm bulb's spectral distribution is far more even, and carries proportionally more of the plant active blues and reds than the traditional 1000w hps. It may not last as long, but if it's saving 15% in power usage while providing comparable or superior light to the plants, then it's paying for its own bulb replacements!
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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stutter said:
now im not all that smart so im just assuming that the 1,0 on the CDM chart is equal to the 100 on the HPS chart.

if so the CDM is peaking well above the HPS even in the red spectrums.
Click to expand...



Now this is in no way a proven fact, but just by looking at those 2 graphs and other graphs I have seen for many bulbs, I would say the 1,0 on the CDM is about the same as the 35-50 range of the HPS. Like tty said there using way different scales and I could be way off, but thats just my first impression from looking at them side by side.

If there was an accurate depiction of these 2 graphs on the same scale, then it would make sense to analyze these 2 bulbs. Not only that, but the HPS has more intensity, which really isn't shown when comparing the spectrum of 2 bulbs on a couple of graphs.
 
stutter

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i wouldnt be so sure of that. the CDM lamps really do perform. i couldnt find a good side by side of the 860 vs 1000w hps
but this is a side by side fo a 400w cdm (actually 330W) vs a 400w HPS using the same scale

Cdmvshps


now as you can see the CDM lamp matches the peaks of the HPSbut destroys it in every other spectrum. i would imagine that the 860w CDM destroys the 1000w HPS in a similar fashion.

Being a CDM grower and a HPS grower i can tell you plants love CDM the only reason i still run HPS in some grows is because i dont want to spend the money and upgrade just yet. but you can bet when i do the 860w CDM is where i will be going
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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The bulb burns about 14% less electricity, if its wattage rating is to be believed. Early reports are of smaller yield, but I'm interested in how much less. If yield falls by les than 14% then the bulb is still effectively more efficient.

I'm concerned about the reports of how hot it feels. That tells me there is some kind of efficiency problem, since that heat has to come from the power supplied to the light. Could it also be a "perceived heat", based on how UVA emissions feel to exposed skin?
 
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the advantage of the ceramic arc tube is that it can withstand much higher heat and allows us to run different hallides at higher heats for longer. this increases the range of different halides that can be used, the different halides are what create different light spectrums because when these halides are heated they partly vaporise.

also they last longer an dont lose colours because the ceramic walls of the arc tube dont absorb the metal ions like the old tubes used too.

CDM is the future of HID its just a matter of time before everyone realises. better quality light using less energy. its simple.

the real question is will HID lights continue to reign supreme or will LED's or Indcution take over
 
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oh and TTY it is definitely perceived heat. i find running my 400w CDM's that they are very hot right under the bulb. in fact i run my 400's higher above my canopy than i would my 600w HPS because it seems to stress the plants at close range and they seem to want to get calcium def, which sounds odd but its just something i have noticed,

what i have noticed though is that although my light feels hotter underneath my grow room temps actually drop about 2-3 degrees celsius (35-40f)
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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313
stutter said:
the advantage of the ceramic arc tube is that it can withstand much higher heat and allows us to run different hallides at higher heats for longer. this increases the range of different halides that can be used, the different halides are what create different light spectrums because when these halides are heated they partly vaporise.

also they last longer an dont lose colours because the ceramic walls of the arc tube dont absorb the metal ions like the old tubes used too.

CDM is the future of HID its just a matter of time before everyone realises. better quality light using less energy. its simple.

the real question is will HID lights continue to reign supreme or will LED's or Indcution take over
Click to expand...

Interesting analysis. The spectrum comparisons would seem to bear you out. If people report better results than with conventional hps- even better on a yield per watt basis is good enough for me- then me and my magnetic ballasts are ready!
 
stutter

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yeah i suggest giving it a go and see for yourself especially if you already have most of the gear lying around what have you got to lose. be sure to get the Phillips version though because not all CDM lamps are made equal. GE and osram both have 400w versions of the CDM lamp but neither one has the complete spectrum of the phillips lamps, they just dont have the right mix of halides
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

2,972
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stutter said:
i wouldnt be so sure of that. the CDM lamps really do perform. i couldnt find a good side by side of the 860 vs 1000w hps
but this is a side by side fo a 400w cdm (actually 330W) vs a 400w HPS using the same scale

View attachment 308695

now as you can see the CDM lamp matches the peaks of the HPSbut destroys it in every other spectrum. i would imagine that the 860w CDM destroys the 1000w HPS in a similar fashion.

Being a CDM grower and a HPS grower i can tell you plants love CDM the only reason i still run HPS in some grows is because i dont want to spend the money and upgrade just yet. but you can bet when i do the 860w CDM is where i will be going
Click to expand...



The only thing about those graphs is that LED salesmen use the same type of analysis and we all know how that turned out. I'm not saying the CDM isn't a great bulb, but just because there is more spectrum, it still doesn't show intensity. I'm not sure how to explain it but I'll try, lets say the 400w basically only has red and orange, which it does, that means the entire 400 watts are going into heat and the orange-red spectrum. With the CDM you have so much below 550 nm, and its only 330 watts, alot of the intensity from the orange-red, which flowering plants need the most, is going towards the blue and purple. So it seems the CDM has less intensity in the orange-red, I think those graphs are inaccurate because of this very reason, it doesn't show intensity.

Its still a great bulb, but its kinda like a dual-arc, it has the MH and HPS in the same bulb. Just doesn't seem like anything ground breaking IMHO, especially since people can use MH and HPS in the same room or even the same reflector.

I could be wrong though.
 
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