a different take on led lights--your thoughts

[willy led wonka]

Having had a few rounds with some of the more familiar led brand lights out there, i have come across a different approach. Im curious why they arent using a 100watt led light with a separate driver. A Person could have as many of these on a fixture as they wanted. Ive personally seen a 100 watt led bulb mounted to a nice aluminum heat sink that is putting out the spectrum of 6000k. And i was asked this----at what distance below the conventional led lights are they achieving their spectrum? And, then what is the desired acheived spectrum delivered to the plants? To which i didnt have any real answers. THis gentleman says his lights are designed around whats worked forever and thats metal halide and hps spectrums. So my question to the farmers is---got any thoughts on this. It has a great light delivery and uses a conical lense and not a flat lense--which was new to me also.....any thoughts on this are appreciated--good and bad. Wonka

 

[ttystikk]

need pics, link, more specifics?

 

[spin doc]

Are you stating you have seen a SINGLE 100 watt LED or multiple LEDS encapsulated in single unit making the single unit capable of reaching the 100watts? If you are saying you have seen a SINGLE 100 watt LED I would love to see a link. I have an extremely limited knowledge of LED but I have not seen even a SINGLE 5 watt LED - I have seen 2 - 3 watt units (each drawing 2.5 watts) mounted together to produce 5 watts BUT NOT a SINGLE 5 watter.

 

[datDANK]

the best stealth LED unit has multiple 50watt diodes .. in 1 or 2 years you will see 100watt diodes

 

[spin doc]

By 50 watt diode you mean a diode configured to hold some multiple of 1, 2 or 3 watt bulbs correct?

I have personally never seen LED frequency rated in degrees kelvin (k). What spectrums does the referenced 100 watter cover.

Please post a picture for clarification and to satsify my curiosity as I would REALLY love to see this Bad Boy.

 

[ttystikk]

I've never seen an LED light rated in Kelvin, either- that's pretty imprecise, and LEDs are capable of extreme precision in terms of wavelength. I've never seen a single LED put out more than 3 watts, either. No way there's a 50 watt single LED element yet, at least not for commercial sale.

 

[spin doc]

at what distance below the conventional led lights are they achieving their spectrum?I would speculate that it would depend, somewhat. on the angle of the lens but would assert, if designed properly, the full spectrum would be realized within inches of the unit.

his lights are designed around whats worked forever and thats metal halide and hps spectrums. This would be a very ineffective approach as HIDs provide too much energy in spectrums / frequencies not useable in the photosyntesis process.

what is the desired acheived spectrum delivered to the plants?
That, my friend, would appear to ne the $10,000 questions as units currently on the market advertise themselves as providing everything from 2 to 15 spectrums. Blackdog currently advertises the most I have seen recentl ... "15 spectrums include not only multiple wavelengths targeting crucial absorption peaks in the red and blue spectrum, but also IR, UV, and warm and cool white". I personally (and here again I am no expert), believe that California Lightwork Solarstorm spectrum more closely mirrors conventionally accepted essential spectrums of photosynthesis.

Just my two cents.

 

[willy led wonka]

yes it is actually a 100 watt led--driven at 102 watts. I dont have a pic right now. He showed the light chart the guys from china use to develop the spectrums they use and this is right at 6000k which covers most of the plant spectrums out there---not according to me--but thats his take. It doesnt have any UV or IR at this time. Ifound a pic thats similar to this light---but thats all it is.... the bulbs are shaped like this particular light and the housing is close....but the bulb,driver, and heat sink are different.

 

[willy led wonka]

these are the conical led bulbs this guys is using, however his are rated @ 100 watts. It is just 1 bulb. Not stacked, multilple lower wattages. I wish i had more details and will try and get more this week if i can.
Its all the more confusing to me. This is why im asking you guys---i have played with alot of led brands....but this guy got me thinking. I dont know if he's headed in the right or wrong direction. And,,,,FOR the RECORD!! Im in no way affiliated with this guy. Just a curious led consumer who's stumbled across something different and want your opinions. Ulitimately, i know i will have to spend the coin to see whats up. But any thoughts are what im after.

 

[willy led wonka]

i do this gentlemans background is in saltwater aquariums. He says these will penetrate to a depth of 50 to 55ft. And that he uses them to grow corals...he is using a 12,000k spectrum according to what he tells us. He thinks the 6000k will work better because---i guess---the higher the kelvin rating on leds the lower the lumens--if i understood him correctly. And that the 6000k provides some light in the orange, blue, green, and yellow spectrums. At a rating of approx. 12-14000 lumens per 100 watt led bulb. All i can say---is im lookin for a light that works great and this guy is blowing me away with all kinds of charts and information it would take a botanists to understand....so much for this business administration degree....lol. Need to go back and take a few botany classes i guess. hahaha

 

[ttystikk]

i do this gentlemans background is in saltwater aquariums. He says these will penetrate to a depth of 50 to 55ft. And that he uses them to grow corals...he is using a 12,000k spectrum according to what he tells us. He thinks the 6000k will work better because---i guess---the higher the kelvin rating on leds the lower the lumens--if i understood him correctly. And that the 6000k provides some light in the orange, blue, green, and yellow spectrums. At a rating of approx. 12-14000 lumens per 100 watt led bulb. All i can say---is im lookin for a light that works great and this guy is blowing me away with all kinds of charts and information it would take a botanists to understand....so much for this business administration degree....lol. Need to go back and take a few botany classes i guess. hahaha

Yeah, I got a BS in business, too- so I know when I'm being given the 'business'... Just because someone throws a bunch of scientific jargon at the conversation doesn't mean it's actually valid. I'm interested in seeing more, but until I do, I will remain very skeptical. Too damn much hype in the LED industry as it is.

 

[willy led wonka]

Information is the name of the game....its just sorting out the good from the bad these days.

 

[spin doc]

The aquarium dudes are really into their lights. I only recently learned coral grows by photosynthesis, and getting the lite through water is a problem... but those dudes are just as committed to growing coral as some of us are at growing herb!

I like what he's done with the light FOR AN AQUARIUM, but I seriously doubt it would work with a grow light..... plus, I don't like the deception that this is a 'single 100W LED'. That kind of BS marketing is one reason broader acceptance of LEDs has been so slow which in turn has slowed advancements in technology.

His "single 100W LED" is actually an LED component comprised of
many LEDs. Fortunately he posted hi-res pics. Here is a zoom-in from one
of his pics, you can see the diodes through the lens. The pic is a bit
distorted because the lens is a bubble ... but MY bet is that its a 10x10
matrix of 1w LEDS. You can see that each row has 10LEDs, and given the
shape and orientation of the lens pretty safe to assume they're laid out
in a square, so 10x10. Neat small package though! Am sure the 10x10grid
is pre-fabricated. And his power supply is likewise; its a standard LED
line driver that he ordered from a distributor. You can zoom in on his
site and pick up the part number.

 

[rehabkicksass]

The multi-chip high-wattage LED's are all over Ebay.



9000-9500lm 100W LED, Ebay. 2850-3050K color.

I know $35.87 is high for one light and you also have to buy a power supply for it and maybe a lens, but damn. Nearly 10,000lm from a single point source? That's HID territory. That nearly beats a 4-foot two-tube T5HO light.

 

[Dunge]

spin doc

You may not consider yourself an expert, but your response revels that you have an understanding of photosynthesis and light.

Many respondents are attempting to work this out without any fundamental model of WTF is going on with lights or plants.

The logic behind attempting to duplicate HID spectrum "because we know they work" is laughable.

I'm not interested in dissing anybodies education, but without a basic picture of the physics and biology in play, there is little chance of drawing useful conclusions.

I believe that present LED technology is suitable to the task, resulting in maybe a 30% reduction in power consumption.

They just need to come down in price.

 

[squiggly]

So far as I know, with current technology a 100W LED would be many times less efficient than 100 1W LEDs. Just the nature of the game. As i understand it, a 3W is not anything close to 3x1W in terms of efficiency.

I don't think the LEDs are the biggest problem (not that better technology isn't needed). I think it's mostly about playing with beam angle and spectrum.

For my money the 11-band spec LEDs are the way to go. There are many different light sensitive proteins in plants, and they respond to a wide range of wavelengths of light. Chemistry--and thusly biochemistry--is all about balance and equilibrium. I can't overstate that enough, equilibrium is a very important concept for protein function, enzymology, metabolism, you name it.

Also worth mentioning that after millions of years this stuff has suited itself to the sun fairly well--despite indoor growers best attempts to breed to the light available :)

If you check out the spectrum/intensity profile of an HPS/MH/T5/LED bulb, and then the same for the sun, you'll see that an HPS matches the suns profile the most closely. It's a very obvious pattern.

Biological systems are fragile, this should not be so non-obvious to our generation(s) given how we can impact environments. Its my guess that LEDs which perform the best are those which most closely match the profile of HPS/the sun (if you were to do statistical analysis to figure it out). The ones that leave droopy leaves and whatnot are too one-dimensional and do not mimic natural conditions well enough. Even 4 narrow band spectrums seems like far too little for me to give a plant what it needs.

 

[Dr.Backwoodz]

the bulb pic is cazey never knew that!, asian are always pulling new technology out their asses every 6 hours!