Advanced Nutrients line-up and Live Culture Hydroponics questions from a newbie.

[GrumpAzz]

So I feel like I'm coming to end of the planning stage for my two plant RDWC grow. I'll give a quick rundown of what I'm thinking and then get to my question.

Spider Farmer
-4x4 tent
-6" fan and fileter kit x2 (intake and exhaust)
-SE5000 full spectrum light

Other
-18 gallon resevoirs
-50 gallon top-off resevoir
-1" water lines feeding 2 waterfalls per plants
-venturi aerator fitting for each plant
-8" nano-bubble bar for plants and control reservoir.
-2" return lines
-30 watt adjustable flow DC water pump
-Jungle Cake X Wedding tree seeds

I want to go the live culture route and originally planned on Southern Ag's fungicide. I went there first. AquaMan got me going on the live path. Then, I started looking into nutrients and was drawn toward Advanced Nutrients line-up. I'm a sucker for flashy marketing, I guess.

This brings me to my first question. Would AN's root expander line (tarantula, voodoo juice, piranha) replace or rather supplement Southern Ag? Neither seem to contain the 747 that makes SA so vital.

VOODOO JUICE

TARANTULA

PIRANHA

Now, on to my next question. Looking at the feeding charts on Advanced Nutrients' website, and doing some rudimentary math, It shows me using 152 ml of the base solutions PER GALLON. My three 18 gallon resevoirs and plumbing will hold 50 gallons, give or take a few depending on my final resting water level. So 152 ml x 50 gallons = 7600 ml throughout the grow process. TWO GALLONS!? Now, I fully understand that you shouldn't start off with the recommended dosages, but that seems like a metric shit-ton.

CHART FOR REFERENCE

I realize that there's no need to go with the extra additives and I would likely be fine sticking with their three base nutrients (and with cheaper alternatives for that matter), but I like the idea of giving the plants a little extra, sort of like a treat. Whether I've bitten off more than I can chew is up for debate, but wouldn't surprise me. I tend to go all out on new projects and growing has been a dream of mine since I first started toking. I'll have the Apera AI316 5-in-1 pen tester to stay on top of water quality.

Another question I can't seem to find an answer for; With my larger volume resevoirs, is a weekly water change still necessary? Or could I get by going 2 weeks or more on the same water? I'm not sure of our water quality. We live in a small town of 150 people and the water is sourced from the ground. I planned on testing it with my pen and running a plantless cycle for week or more to monitor water quality before ever adding my seedlings.

What started off as a simple question turned into quite the post. Sorry if this ran on or if all this is covered elsewhere and, as always, any information or criticism is welcome. Thank you all and may your buds stay frosty

 

[GrumpAzz]

Not sure how I posted that last chart twice....

 

[Anthem]

So I feel like I'm coming to end of the planning stage for my two plant RDWC grow. I'll give a quick rundown of what I'm thinking and then get to my question.

Spider Farmer
-4x4 tent
-6" fan and fileter kit x2 (intake and exhaust)
-SE5000 full spectrum light

Other
-18 gallon resevoirs
-50 gallon top-off resevoir
-1" water lines feeding 2 waterfalls per plants
-venturi aerator fitting for each plant
-8" nano-bubble bar for plants and control reservoir.
-2" return lines
-30 watt adjustable flow DC water pump
-Jungle Cake X Wedding tree seeds

I want to go the live culture route and originally planned on Southern Ag's fungicide. I went there first. AquaMan got me going on the live path. Then, I started looking into nutrients and was drawn toward Advanced Nutrients line-up. I'm a sucker for flashy marketing, I guess.

This brings me to my first question. Would AN's root expander line (tarantula, voodoo juice, piranha) replace or rather supplement Southern Ag? Neither seem to contain the 747 that makes SA so vital.

VOODOO JUICE
View attachment 1322069

TARANTULA
View attachment 1322070

PIRANHA
View attachment 1322071

Now, on to my next question. Looking at the feeding charts on Advanced Nutrients' website, and doing some rudimentary math, It shows me using 152 ml of the base solutions PER GALLON. My three 18 gallon resevoirs and plumbing will hold 50 gallons, give or take a few depending on my final resting water level. So 152 ml x 50 gallons = 7600 ml throughout the grow process. TWO GALLONS!? Now, I fully understand that you shouldn't start off with the recommended dosages, but that seems like a metric shit-ton.

CHART FOR REFERENCE
View attachment 1322073

I realize that there's no need to go with the extra additives and I would likely be fine sticking with their three base nutrients (and with cheaper alternatives for that matter), but I like the idea of giving the plants a little extra, sort of like a treat. Whether I've bitten off more than I can chew is up for debate, but wouldn't surprise me. I tend to go all out on new projects and growing has been a dream of mine since I first started toking. I'll have the Apera AI316 5-in-1 pen tester to stay on top of water quality.

Another question I can't seem to find an answer for; With my larger volume resevoirs, is a weekly water change still necessary? Or could I get by going 2 weeks or more on the same water? I'm not sure of our water quality. We live in a small town of 150 people and the water is sourced from the ground. I planned on testing it with my pen and running a plantless cycle for week or more to monitor water quality before ever adding my seedlings.

What started off as a simple question turned into quite the post. Sorry if this ran on or if all this is covered elsewhere and, as always, any information or criticism is welcome. Thank you all and may your buds stay frosty

Now that is impressive 18 bottles of nutrients to grow. Someone on this forum once quoted a nutrient line company owner as saying. The quickest way to make money is not growing weed but selling the grower nutrients.
Honestly, that is about the worse line you can run cost wise. I think you asked a question about rez changes. Every week is what most do. Why, well the NPK ratios get out of balance once you go much further than a week.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Now that is impressive 18 bottles of nutrients to grow. Someone on this forum once quoted a nutrient line company owner as saying. The quickest way to make money is not growing weed but selling the grower nutrients.
Honestly, that is about the worse line you can run cost wise. I think you asked a question about rez changes. Every week is what most do. Why, well the NPK ratios get out of balance once you go much further than a week.

Short and to the point. I appreciate that. I wasn't planning on running all 18 bottles but there's a 12 bottle kit on Amazon that I was looking at.

I'll put a little more thought into this and probably end up running just their base and root lines with one or two boosters. Or no boosters. I'm flexible and expect to hear and learn more.

 

[Anthem]

Short and to the point. I appreciate that. I wasn't planning on running all 18 bottles but there's a 12 bottle kit on Amazon that I was looking at.

I'll put a little more thought into this and probably end up running just their base and root lines with one or two boosters. Or no boosters. I'm flexible and expect to hear and learn more.

To be honest Advanced is a bad company IMO. They purposely leave out part of the basic building blocks of the nutrients and stick them into the add ons to make it seem the add ons are really doing their job when they are just adding parts of the mixture to the add ons to make is seem like the add ons are magic.
Just start off with something simple like General Hydroponics 3 part for now.

 

[smokedareefer]

To be honest Advanced is a bad company IMO. They purposely leave out part of the basic building blocks of the nutrients and stick them into the add ons to make it seem the add ons are really doing their job when they are just adding parts of the mixture to the add ons to make is seem like the add ons are magic.
Just start off with something simple like General Hydroponics 3 part for now.

Can't speak for advanced nutrients but i can speak for gh 3part. I've be using nothing but their 3 bottles for the last 10 years with pretty good success.

 

[GrumpAzz]

To be honest Advanced is a bad company IMO. They purposely leave out part of the basic building blocks of the nutrients and stick them into the add ons to make it seem the add ons are really doing their job when they are just adding parts of the mixture to the add ons to make is seem like the add ons are magic.
Just start off with something simple like General Hydroponics 3 part for now.

Solid advice and it's not hard to believe that a company would cherrypick nutrients and piece the others out, marketed as "additives." I'll have to think twice about AS and do a little more research on the ingredients of the additives compared to other brand's base nutes.

 

[Anthem]

Solid advice and it's not hard to believe that a company would cherrypick nutrients and piece the others out, marketed as "additives." I'll have to think twice about AS and do a little more research on the ingredients of the additives compared to other brand's base nutes.

To be 100 percent honest you are not going to get much off of looking at labels. I only say that because the companies are only required to list the NPK values of the nutrient solution and they only have to list the minimums to get by. Take Athena Pro Line, if. you look at their listed Magnesium value it is about half of what is actually in the product. There are other bio stimulants in the nutrients companies do not list. I have tried more snake oil products than I care to admit and while some work they usually have some sort of draw backs.

 

[Buzzy12]

To be honest Advanced is a bad company IMO. They purposely leave out part of the basic building blocks of the nutrients and stick them into the add ons to make it seem the add ons are really doing their job when they are just adding parts of the mixture to the add ons to make is seem like the add ons are magic.
Just start off with something simple like General Hydroponics 3 part for now.

So how exactly is GH any different in the regard that they sell a bunch of extra bottles too? They sell a 3 part series, 6 part series, and 10 part series. Very similar to Advanced Nutrients...

Not sure why AN gets hated on, but they might be the best value nutrients in the industry. All of their products are 2 mL/L except the base nutrients go up to 4 mL/L. They have excellent customer service. Their products are made here in the USA. They were the first big company to sell directly to Cannabis growers and have been the number #1 nutrient company in the industry for a long time now.

And what do they leave out of their base nutrients?

As far as answering your questions @GrumpAzz the three beneficial microbe products that AN sells do not have bactericide/fungicide properties as far as I know. The Southern AG fungicide with the D747 bacteria strain in it does. I don't think there should be a problem mixing those all together. You might need to do some specific research for those strains of microbes compatibility to make sure. The Voodoo Juice, Piranha, and Tarantula are for root expansion and help make the nutrients in the medium more plant available, very good products from them.

Buddy, simple math says just about all of AN's products are 8 mL/gal. The base nutes go up to 16 mL/gal. They are concentrated products. Not sure where you're getting 152 mL/gal...

I think it's smart to change the reservoir once a week like they recommend.

I've been using AN's products for a few years now after switching from Fox Farm. I've seen plants at the grow op grown with House & Garden and Athena. I've used GH's line way back in the day, this will be my 14th year growing. No reason to try any other products. I've added some products to the AN line, but I'm sticking with them for the majority of my nutrient purchases until I see any reason not to. I like how ambitious this project is!

My recommendation would be get the AN three part series, Voodoo Juice, Sensizym, Bud Candy, Big Bud, Overdrive, Rhino Skin, and a small bottle of Flawless Finish. You'll have everything you need to produce some high quality plants with that lineup. Terpinator is a product from Rhizoflora that is just about the same thing as Bud Factor X and it's significantly cheaper if you want to push terpene production in Flower. I recently learned that from the hydro store owner. He told me AN told him that when Bud Factor X was out of stock. They're an honest company looking to help you produce the best quality flower possible.

Hopefully this helps!

 

[GrumpAzz]

Buddy, simple math says just about all of AN's products are 8 mL/gal. The base nutes go up to 16 mL/gal. They are concentrated products. Not sure where you're getting 152 mL/gal...

The 152 ml/gal was throughout the entire grow. I just added all the weekly suggested amounts on the base nutrients. Really I was just surprised that I would need roughly 2 gallons to finish the grow at their recommended dosages.

And thank you for providing a rebuttal for AN. I was looking for people that had used AN's products to hear about their experience.

 

[Moe.Red]

-18 gallon resevoirs
-50 gallon top-off resevoir
-1" water lines feeding 2 waterfalls per plants
-venturi aerator fitting for each plant
-8" nano-bubble bar for plants and control reservoir.
-2" return lines
-30 watt adjustable flow DC water pump

Do you have a plumbing plan / sketch? 18 gallon - is that the plant sites? How many, 2 for plants and 1 external = 54 total system gallons? 18 gal, if plant sites seems like total overkill. (2) 8 gal in a 4x4 seems much more reasonable. I dunno can't envision what you are doing here.

Can you link the nano bubble bar?

2" return - Either I'm not understanding something or you plan to grow massive trees. if you are going big go with 3" Current Culture bulkheads.

I'll have the Apera AI316 5-in-1 pen tester to stay on top of water quality.

Another question I can't seem to find an answer for; With my larger volume resevoirs, is a weekly water change still necessary? Or could I get by going 2 weeks or more on the same water? I'm not sure of our water quality. We live in a small town of 150 people and the water is sourced from the ground. I planned on testing it with my pen and running a plantless cycle for week or more to monitor water quality before ever adding my seedlings.

You got plenty of good advice on nutes above, and I'll just echo that AN nutes are something I would personally steer clear of.

With your pen, you can test for salinity. Don't mistake that reading as being sodium. That is the biggest worry with non-ro water. In soil, well water is actually preferred and if your community doesn't do anything but add a chlorine or similar disinfectant you should be OK. But get a TDS reading with that pen now and tell us the number. If you don't already have the pen on order, don't do it I'll save you some $

Starting the system up and running it prior to adding plants is always the goal, especially if you just built the system. Fill it run it flush it refill and stabilize before adding plants.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

You got plenty of good advice on nutes above, and I'll just echo that AN nutes are something I would personally steer clear of.

This right here. ☝️

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

And thank you for providing a rebuttal for AN. I was looking for people that had used AN's products to hear about their experience.

I was once where you are right now, went with AN. Wish I would not have.

If you want to read about my experience, here is the thread where I used AN and then switched halfway through flower.

First RDWC Grow - Taking the Deep Water Culture Plunge

Greetings Cultivators! I have 3 full grows under my belt indoors in soil but now am opening a new chapter and taking the plunge into RDWC. I have been impressed with folks growing this way and so I decided to give it a shot but I have to admit, I feel like I am starting all over again....twice...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[Anthem]

The 152 ml/gal was throughout the entire grow. I just added all the weekly suggested amounts on the base nutrients. Really I was just surprised that I would need roughly 2 gallons to finish the grow at their recommended dosages.

And thank you for providing a rebuttal for AN. I was looking for people that had used AN's products to hear about their experienc

A couple things.
#1. I clearly stated Gh 3 part with no add ons. Sure they have the snake oil crap just like your fav but the difference is their 3 parts works well and many people have been just using it for years.
#2. I have no idea how a grow op can survive in the cannabis industry today using a liquid product with those kind of costs. I mean you could hire DR Daniel Fernandez to come and do a consult for the money you would save switching to dry salts.
#3. If owner of the grow op is still talking to the hydro shop about nutrients that owner is not well educated on the subject. Yes I get it if you use the whole line up the plants finish well.
Part of the point of using a simple 3 part is for the beginner. He needs to learn and not get all stressed out mixing all 18 bottle of AN. It is suppose to be an enjoyable hobby.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Do you have a plumbing plan / sketch? 18 gallon - is that the plant sites? How many, 2 for plants and 1 external = 54 total system gallons? 18 gal, if plant sites seems like total overkill. (2) 8 gal in a 4x4 seems much more reasonable. I dunno can't envision what you are doing here.

Can you link the nano bubble bar?

2" return - Either I'm not understanding something or you plan to grow massive trees. if you are going big go with 3" Current Culture bulkheads.

With your pen, you can test for salinity. Don't mistake that reading as being sodium. That is the biggest worry with non-ro water. In soil, well water is actually preferred and if your community doesn't do anything but add a chlorine or similar disinfectant you should be OK. But get a TDS reading with that pen now and tell us the number. If you don't already have the pen on order, don't do it I'll save you some $

Bubble Bar:

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Pump:

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Resevoirs:

Rubbermaid 18 Gal. Roughneck Tote - Waters Hardware

Durable polyethylene, rugged storage boxes can withstand harsh temperatures from hot to cold. Sturdy, built-in handles allow for easy carrying. Snap-on, stay-tight lids help keep contents dry and dust-free. All units are stackable for saving valuable storage space. Black with gray lid.

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Meter and Pens:

Amazon.com: Bluelab MONGUACON Guardian Monitor Connect for pH, Temperature, and TDS in Water with Data Logging (Connect Stick not Included), Nutrient Meter for Hydroponic System and Indoor Plant Grow : Patio, Lawn & Garden

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I've gone a different route with Bluelab as opposed to Apera after saving some money with GH instead of AN. I've really been eyeing the meter with the green numbers for easier visibility. With GH, aside from the price, I'll end up using about a third of what AN's feed chart suggested. Less chemicals in my little room.

I went with bigger totes for the resevoir assuming more water meant a little more stability with the added advantage of massive roots. So yeah, to answer your question, I guess I plan to grow massive trees.

Here's a rough sketch from a couple nights ago. I've made a couple changes since then. I meant the drainage pipes to the resevoir when I said 2" return. I plan on using the same pump to empty the totes during water changes. The variable flow will come in handy there. The tent will be in a room where I can send the runoff out to my garden.

I have yet to order anything, just added to and updated several carts. I'm open to suggestions and am always a fan of going bigger, so 3" won't deter me. I was initially planning with 3" but was hesitant simply over the price jump on fittings.

I've got a neat little scrog rack I've also been working on. It's for sure in it's baby stages, so judge lightly.

Plywood base. Stailess eye-hooks. 1/2" or 3/4" EMT (Electrician by trade) rack frame with 2'x4' outer dimensions. All-thread support system at the top. All that painted with white flexseal aside from the hooks. Then notch and sleeve white PVC over the EMT to support the trellis system. All this was the product of a hypothetical root rot dilemma and how to remove a potentially tied up plant to wash it's roots. Highly convoluted plan. It was a late night stoned daydream turned visionquest.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I went with bigger totes for the resevoir assuming more water meant a little more stability with the added advantage of massive roots. So yeah, to answer your question, I guess I plan to grow massive trees.

I'm open to suggestions and am always a fan of going bigger, so 3" won't deter me. I was initially planning with 3" but was hesitant simply over the price jump on fittings.

Looking good. I think you made a good choice with GH 3 part. I am getting close to my first harvest where I used GH start to finish, just my 2nd hydro grow. I do like this nutrient line (things I don't like about it too) but always open to trying another or running with additives once I get comfy with the baseline nute and just learn growing in hydro better now that I am getting the basics down....walk before I run is what I try to do.

You definitely want to go with the 3" return lines for bigger plants. You don't want your roots clogging up the system and flooding your space.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Looking good. I think you made a good choice with GH 3 part. I am getting close to my first harvest where I used GH start to finish, just my 2nd hydro grow. I do like this nutrient line (things I don't like about it too) but always open to trying another or running with additives once I get comfy with the baseline nute and just learn growing in hydro better now that I am getting the basics down....walk before I run is what I try to do.

You definitely want to go with the 3" return lines for bigger plants. You don't want your roots clogging up the system and flooding your space.

I've planned on adding some square filter media over the bulkheads inside the resevoir. Would that help prevent the 2" pipes from clogging? Or would that potentially make clogging easier? Somebody on here mentioned a bag of bioballs being a good idea and I figured filter media would do about the same while also filtering out larger solids.

 

[smokedareefer]

I've planned on adding some square filter media over the bulkheads inside the resevoir. Would that help prevent the 2" pipes from clogging? Or would that potentially make clogging easier? Somebody on here mentioned a bag of bioballs being a good idea and I figured filter media would do about the same while also filtering out larger solids.

 

[Trixie]

After trying 3 different growing methods using Advance Nutrients my conclusion was and is today not to use their fertilizer at all. I tried Pro-mix, recirculation, and rockwool to get my money out of the bottles, but I ended up throwing it away. I went back to Gen Hydroponics and was very happy I did.

 

[Moe.Red]

Bubble Bar:

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Pump:

Orlushy DC-4000 Silent Swirl Controllable DC aquarium Pump 25W 1050GPH-marine wavemaker return pump with sine wave Controller for salt/Freshwater coral reef fish tank sump Circulation

Buy Orlushy DC-4000 Silent Swirl Controllable DC aquarium Pump 25W 1050GPH-marine wavemaker return pump with sine wave Controller for salt/Freshwater coral reef fish tank sump Circulation at Amazon. Customer reviews and photos may be available to help you make the right purchase decision!

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Resevoirs:

Rubbermaid 18 Gal. Roughneck Tote - Waters Hardware

Durable polyethylene, rugged storage boxes can withstand harsh temperatures from hot to cold. Sturdy, built-in handles allow for easy carrying. Snap-on, stay-tight lids help keep contents dry and dust-free. All units are stackable for saving valuable storage space. Black with gray lid.

www.watershardware.com

Meter and Pens:

Amazon.com: Bluelab MONGUACON Guardian Monitor Connect for pH, Temperature, and TDS in Water with Data Logging (Connect Stick not Included), Nutrient Meter for Hydroponic System and Indoor Plant Grow : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Buy Bluelab MONGUACON Guardian Monitor Connect for pH, Temperature, and TDS in Water with Data Logging (Connect Stick not Included), Nutrient Meter for Hydroponic System and Indoor Plant Grow: Gardening & Lawn Care - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Bluelab PENGTB Grower's Toolbox with pH Pen, Conductivity Tester and Probe Care Kit, Easy Calibration, Digital Meters for Hydroponic System and Indoor Plant Grow : Industrial & Scientific

Amazon.com: Bluelab PENGTB Grower's Toolbox with pH Pen, Conductivity Tester and Probe Care Kit, Easy Calibration, Digital Meters for Hydroponic System and Indoor Plant Grow : Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

I've gone a different route with Bluelab as opposed to Apera after saving some money with GH instead of AN. I've really been eyeing the meter with the green numbers for easier visibility. With GH, aside from the price, I'll end up using about a third of what AN's feed chart suggested. Less chemicals in my little room.

I went with bigger totes for the resevoir assuming more water meant a little more stability with the added advantage of massive roots. So yeah, to answer your question, I guess I plan to grow massive trees.

Here's a rough sketch from a couple nights ago. I've made a couple changes since then. I meant the drainage pipes to the resevoir when I said 2" return. I plan on using the same pump to empty the totes during water changes. The variable flow will come in handy there. The tent will be in a room where I can send the runoff out to my garden.
View attachment 1322232
I have yet to order anything, just added to and updated several carts. I'm open to suggestions and am always a fan of going bigger, so 3" won't deter me. I was initially planning with 3" but was hesitant simply over the price jump on fittings.

I've got a neat little scrog rack I've also been working on. It's for sure in it's baby stages, so judge lightly. View attachment 1322236
Plywood base. Stailess eye-hooks. 1/2" or 3/4" EMT (Electrician by trade) rack frame with 2'x4' outer dimensions. All-thread support system at the top. All that painted with white flexseal aside from the hooks. Then notch and sleeve white PVC over the EMT to support the trellis system. All this was the product of a hypothetical root rot dilemma and how to remove a potentially tied up plant to wash its roots. Highly convoluted plan. It was a late night stoned daydream turned visionquest.

So you are going to run 1 plant in each tub? Centered?

How much space do you have above to accommodate very large plants?