Aggressive training tactics, minimizing failures in training techniques.

[Frankster]

Photoperiods are alright, if you fail with aggressive training techniques, I occasionally fail. No worries. But if I fail with one of my auto-flowers, it hurts, so I try and get things right, the FIRST TIME.

Usually, for me, it's because I don't have proper stem strength in place, before attempting it. Usually, I have to back off for a few days and ensure there's enough silicon in the stems, and that's not a surefire thing either, because it makes them more brittle, so there's a balance to be had, in there, I believe. The only thing that makes cannabis stems really strong, is scarring them, and establishing strong regeneration, strong resilient scarring development. This technique, I think could be helpful for people attempting big plants outside, who want to keep the canopy level lower.
Or anyone trying to increase the density, and amount of cola's on the plant, resulting in a plant that looks like the last pictures.

I'll try to keep this thread updated so that some of the progression can be documented. But I think this is an important subject that needs attention, and I'm sure that some other grower out there can contribute to the conversation, please do.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Just a nutrient note;

brittle stems is from mild to advanced potassium deficiency. And it may be the tallest plant that has it.


I had better stem strength when adding silica but the brittleness was not present unless I had npk shortage.


and the added silica eventually raised my ph too high. I would go light (1-1.5ml protekt ) in the future.


also a bit more nitrogen can soften stems up.

 

[Frankster]

Here's some of the early stages in doing some revision bending, the second time, during early flower.

Just a nutrient note;

brittle stems is from mild to advanced potassium deficiency. And it may be the tallest plant that has it.


I had better stem strength when adding silica but the brittleness was not present unless I had npk shortage.


and the added silica eventually raised my ph too high. I would go light (1-1.5ml protekt ) in the future.


also a bit more nitrogen can soften stems up.

Excellent information mimed, thanks. That opens my eyes to that specific issue. So when you go up, what do you look for @being on the toxic side? Burnt tips? is that the first sign? Or is the inter-noding what your paying attention too, while dialing it in.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Here's some of the early stages in doing some revision bending, the second time, during early flower.

Excellent information mimed, thanks. That opens my eyes to that specific issue. So when you go up, what do you look for @being on the toxic side? Burnt tips? is that the first sign? Or is the inter-noding what your paying attention too, while dialing it in.

I don’t overthink or pretend I can control uptake in potting soil. I use only ocean forest with 25% perlite through veg with my well water only and transplants to bigger pots with fresh soil. Cup, 1 gallon, 3 gallon. Then use only pure blend pro grow when the nutrients deplete in the final pot around week 2-3 in 12/12.

I try to give only what the plants need and go up in strength only about .2 ec at a time. Starting at 5 ml and almost never over 17.5 ml. I add the pbpg every watering once started. If I see leaf stress or brittle stems or whatever I give water only and measure the runoff to see what is needed. Then usually just pour a gallon of lighter strength nutes through. If I see a low ec or high ph I may raise the nute strength.

as long as it’s available the plant will take what it needs from the medium. We don’t actually feed the plant anything. We just restock the soil.

If you want to control things further that’s what hydro is for imo.

When I start to act like I am controlling things my plants tend to degrade. When I look at it like I said above and just supply only what they need and let them do their thing they seem to flourish.

 

[Frankster]

I don’t overthink or pretend I can control uptake in potting soil. I use only ocean forest with 25% perlite through veg with my well water only and transplants to bigger pots with fresh soil. Cup, 1 gallon, 3 gallon. Then use only pure blend pro grow when the nutrients deplete in the final pot around week 2-3 in 12/12.

I try to give only what the plants need and go up in strength only about .2 ec at a time. Starting at 5 ml and almost never over 17.5 ml. I add the pbpg every watering once started. If I see leaf stress or brittle stems or whatever I give water only and measure the runoff to see what is needed. Then usually just pour a gallon of lighter strength nutes through. If I see a low ec or high ph I may raise the nute strength.

as long as it’s available the plant will take what it needs from the medium. We don’t actually feed the plant anything. We just restock the soil.

If you want to control things further that’s what hydro is for imo.

When I start to act like I am controlling things my plants tend to degrade. When I look at it like I said above and just supply only what they need and let them do their thing they seem to flourish.

I agree, like this one, she needs a little tlc, but she's got good bones for an autoflower. Look at all the new tops on her, and she's made it though the fire, now she just needs the proper care to fill-out all those budding sites I created.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I agree, like this one, she needs a little tlc, but she's got good bones. Look at all the new tops on her, and she's made it though the fire, now she just needs the proper care to fill-out all those budding sites I created.

She created. ;-)

 

[Frankster]

I've always gravitated to ladies who are contortionist. They are the most sexy.

Been doing those potassium bicarb foliars, and it's helped the stem strength for sure. No more busted limbs. The silicon was the wrong medicine, I won't make that error again. Flowering transition is one of, if not the HARDEST PHASE in cannabis, IMO. But I'm always gleaning a little more experience with mastering this critical phase.

 

[j1sonbrother]

I don’t overthink or pretend I can control uptake in potting soil. I use only ocean forest with 25% perlite through veg with my well water only and transplants to bigger pots with fresh soil. Cup, 1 gallon, 3 gallon. Then use only pure blend pro grow when the nutrients deplete in the final pot around week 2-3 in 12/12.

I try to give only what the plants need and go up in strength only about .2 ec at a time. Starting at 5 ml and almost never over 17.5 ml. I add the pbpg every watering once started. If I see leaf stress or brittle stems or whatever I give water only and measure the runoff to see what is needed. Then usually just pour a gallon of lighter strength nutes through. If I see a low ec or high ph I may raise the nute strength.

as long as it’s available the plant will take what it needs from the medium. We don’t actually feed the plant anything. We just restock the soil.

If you want to control things further that’s what hydro is for imo.

When I start to act like I am controlling things my plants tend to degrade. When I look at it like I said above and just supply only what they need and let them do their thing they seem to flourish.

I don’t overthink or pretend I can control uptake in potting soil. I use only ocean forest with 25% perlite through veg with my well water only and transplants to bigger pots with fresh soil. Cup, 1 gallon, 3 gallon. Then use only pure blend pro grow when the nutrients deplete in the final pot around week 2-3 in 12/12.

I try to give only what the plants need and go up in strength only about .2 ec at a time. Starting at 5 ml and almost never over 17.5 ml. I add the pbpg every watering once started. If I see leaf stress or brittle stems or whatever I give water only and measure the runoff to see what is needed. Then usually just pour a gallon of lighter strength nutes through. If I see a low ec or high ph I may raise the nute strength.

as long as it’s available the plant will take what it needs from the medium. We don’t actually feed the plant anything. We just restock the soil.

If you want to control things further that’s what hydro is for imo.

When I start to act like I am controlling things my plants tend to degrade. When I look at it like I said above and just supply only what they need and let them do their thing they seem to flourish.

U mean 200 EC（100ppm) of pbpg at earlier flower？ . Starting at 5 ml／gal？

 

[Frankster]

So I think I'm around week 2 of flowering, and been using this master blend.
When I start adding in the mono-phosphate, am I getting close soon?

 

[MIMedGrower]

U mean 200 EC（100ppm) of pbpg at earlier flower？ . Starting at 5 ml／gal？

No 5 ml pbpg is .7 ec with my well water. And I go up in 2.5 ml. Increments. Which is about .2 ec (100ppm) higher each watering. So I add .7 ec to the soil that has started to become depleted around 2-3 weeks after final transplant. The runoff may read like 1.7ec - 2.0 ec Then next watering .9 ec. Then 1.1. 1.3 1.5 and usually no more than 1.7. Ec with pure blend pro. But with foliage pro I never got over 1.4 ec even in pro mix with no nutrients.

hope that helped.

 

[MIMedGrower]

So I think I'm around week 2 of flowering, and been using this master blend.
When I start adding in the mono-phosphate, am I getting close soon?

I would never be more than 1/2 to 2/3 of these directions. I like my input with chemical salt fertilizers to be between 1.0 (500ppm)and 1.5 (750ppm) max each watering.

 

[Frankster]

I've started using my normal water also.

I would never be more than 1/2 to 2/3 of these directions. I like my input with chemical salt fertilizers to be between 1.0 (500ppm)and 1.5 (750ppm) max each watering.

Yea, I've been holding it around 600 for the smaller ones, and 900-1000 max, for the auto's that are in flower. Frankenstiens are beast with the intake, I expect that to some degree. I think your right, go mid, and dial the ratio's in better, so you can see what the fuck is actually happening.

I was really worried when you pointed out my potassium deficit, but it's fine now, and it got ironed out in a timely manner, no harm, no foul.

My inter-nodes are developing normal, for an auto, most are look pretty damn good, actually. So far.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I've started using my normal water also.

Yea, I've been holding it around 600 for the smaller ones, and 900-1000 max, for the auto's that are in flower. Frankenstiens are beast with the intake, I expect that to some degree. I think your right, go mid, and dial the ratio's in better, so you can see what the fuck is actually happening.

I was really worried when you pointed out my potassium deficit, but it's fine now, and it got ironed out in a timely manner, no harm, no foul.

My inter-nodes are developing normal, for an auto, most are look pretty damn good, actually.

with fertigation if a plant has a mostly hidden potassium deficiency it likely needs more (or less if overfed and roots blocked) of everything in ratio. I was actually trying to say dont micro manage these things and adjust the whole mix up or down as needed. Not specific nutrients. The fertilizer has it all balanced already. If they need more potassium they need N and P in ratio upped as well.

If it gets too much just light flush and re feed a less potent mixture. Simple.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Sometimes @Frankster i overthink all this and then start micro managing the plants. I always mess up the nutrition over or under feeding when I do this. They don’t respond fast like we think. So when I am thinking to feed the depleting soil to make sure it has enough but not too much complete balanced fertilizer then the plants tend to green back up in a few days.

plants want simple consistency. Humans want to control manage and overthink. We are not like them. Lol. :-)

 

[Frankster]

Sometimes @Frankster i overthink all this and then start micro managing the plants. I always mess up the nutrition over or under feeding when I do this. They don’t respond fast like we think. So when I am thinking to feed the depleting soil to make sure it has enough but not too much complete balanced fertilizer then the plants tend to green back up in a few days.

plants want simple consistency. Humans want to control manage and overthink. We are not like them. Lol. :-)

I agree, people tend to want things immediately. I'll do things like check my plants, and I'll leave the lights down for awhile, while I'm tending them, and doing foliars. I am big into foliars now, my plants get sprays of some type virtually everyday, especially though sprout -> veg-> early flower. I back off to mid and late flowering, but still do a few minor treatments though-out with my glycerol surfactant. It allows me to put trace amounts of minerals in to adjust something like this in a quicker manner.

I keep the pH above the canopy alkaline, and the area below acidic, and potassium likes that alkaline environment, so it's a good fit.
KHCO3 → K2CO3 + CO2 + H2O
I'm creating Carbon dioxide inside on my leaf surface virtually all the time....
I simply see massive growth using this technique.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I also wanted to add that I am flowering under 600w hps. Lamps. Your new led puts down a lot more light than the hps does. So while I am at half strength nutes you may need full strength to keep up with the high light.

 

[Frankster]

I also wanted to add that I am flowering under 600w hps. Lamps. Your new led puts down a lot more light than the hps does. So while I am at half strength nutes you may need full strength to keep up with the high light.

I think that's probably a very accurate statement. I never thought I would see HPS showed the door, but that's what it looks like from here. I used to run dual 1200's, and I can do better with a single 650watts. and as much as a single 1000w HPS with my 350w. (and I used MH bulbs during veg) and the inter-noding looks much tighter, especially during veg.

I've got the UV started the other day for the flowering room. Using agromax pure UV, in addition to the 301H diodes. I think I'll phase them in a few hours at a time, for about a week or so. harden them off some first.