Alternative To Hydroguard?

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linky

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I found this product which appears to have the same bacteria that hydroguard contains but at a MUCH higher concentration for 1/3 the price. Anyone familiar with this product and is it in fact the same bacteria that is in hydroguard?

Contains: 98.85% Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain D747

Southern Ag Garden Friendly Biological Fungicide,16oz - 1 Pint

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VXQG23O?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00

http://southernag.com/residential-products/garden-friendly-fungcde-12x1-pt/
 
Snake Oil

Snake Oil

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Good find linky, thats a great replacement for hydroguard, its 100× more concentrated.
Hydroguard contains a whopping .038% bacillus amyloliquefaciens lol, I'm surprised that stuff works at all.
 
L

linky

54
8
Good find linky, thats a great replacement for hydroguard, its 100× more concentrated.
Hydroguard contains a whopping .038% bacillus amyloliquefaciens lol, I'm surprised that stuff works at all.

Yeah, Hydroguard works great at preventing and getting rid of root rot, so hopefully this is the same, appears to be and like you said 100 x more concentrated.
 
Snake Oil

Snake Oil

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Im kinda confused on how it can be that concentrated at 98.85% it doesn't leave much room for water, maybe they have a a decimal point in the wrong place. Im sure its still a hell of a lot stronger than Hydroguard.
 
Savage Henry

Savage Henry

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Has anyone diluted the southern ag bacillus amyloliquefaciens into a stock solution to work with? Would the cfus remain viable?
@Ecompost?
 
Snake Oil

Snake Oil

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I wouldn't dilute it before using it that could activate the microbes and cause them to die off. Oddly the recommended dosage they give you is 1tsp per gallon which is probably as much microbes as a gallon of Hydroguard. If your using it as a foliar to prevent PM thats the dosage you want to use but if your just using it to keep your reservoir clean and prevent root rot like you would with Hydroguard you can use much less, I throw about a half a cap full in a 25 gallon res and it keeps things clean, experiment with the dosage to find what works best for you knowing that in one drop of this stuff your getting as many microbes as 2 ml of Hydroguard.
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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Has anyone diluted the southern ag bacillus amyloliquefaciens into a stock solution to work with? Would the cfus remain viable?
@Ecompost?
hi mate, sorry dont know the product, i do know the microbe since we use it a fair bit as part of a PGPR system., I had a quick chuckle at the Botan Hydroguard advert, very funny. Like this single microbes does all that on its own LOL. I think are man snake has more idea buddy
 
Savage Henry

Savage Henry

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hi mate, sorry dont know the product, i do know the microbe since we use it a fair bit as part of a PGPR system., I had a quick chuckle at the Botan Hydroguard advert, very funny. Like this single microbes does all that on its own LOL. I think are man snake has more idea buddy

Thanks, boss. The quality of botanicare has gone downhill the last couple years, IMO.

I wouldn't dilute it before using it that could activate the microbes and cause them to die off. Oddly the recommended dosage they give you is 1tsp per gallon which is probably as much microbes as a gallon of Hydroguard. If your using it as a foliar to prevent PM thats the dosage you want to use but if your just using it to keep your reservoir clean and prevent root rot like you would with Hydroguard you can use much less, I throw about a half a cap full in a 25 gallon res and it keeps things clean, experiment with the dosage to find what works best for you knowing that in one drop of this stuff your getting as many microbes as 2 ml of Hydroguard.

Thank you, sir. I crunched some numbers with regard to this. 1 ml/50gal of the southern ag produduct will yield something like 56,000cfus/ml in the final working solution, making the Rez 2.5x more concentrated than hydrogaurd itself! Though I wouldn't doubt that, since the label on hydrogaurd is for a minimum guaranteed analysis, that they state there's fewer cfus than actually are present, in order to avoid having to pay for labeling/approval as a fungicide.
 
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Ecompost

Ecompost

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Thanks, boss. The quality of botanicare has gone downhill the last couple years, IMO.



Thank you, sir. I crunched some numbers with regard to this. 1 ml/50gal of the southern ag produduct will yield something like 56,000cfus/ml in the final working solution, making the Rez 2.5x more concentrated than hydrogaurd itself! Though I wouldn't doubt that, since the label on hydrogaurd is for a minimum guaranteed analysis, that they state there's fewer cfus than actually are present, in order to avoid having to pay for labeling/approval as a fungicide.
to be fair, EBIC is a pain in the arse, if you have a similar group that side, well now, is it a plant feed a bio stim, what you mean its both, well hang on mate...LOL
 
Savage Henry

Savage Henry

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to be fair, EBIC is a pain in the arse, if you have a similar group that side, well now, is it a plant feed a bio stim, what you mean its both, well hang on mate...LOL

Yea, it's weird over here. Especially since Monsanto (or I guess bayer now) has the fda in their pocket.

Have you seen any issues with the b. Amylo out competing n-fixing and other beneficial microbes when introduced in high concentrations?
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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Yea, it's weird over here. Especially since Monsanto (or I guess bayer now) has the fda in their pocket.

Have you seen any issues with the b. Amylo out competing n-fixing and other beneficial microbes when introduced in high concentrations?
not for us, i counter it with Azotobacter, Aspergillus and B. Polymxya in soil, all of which secrete Citric acid so slow Bio Film production and I use Amylo as a foliar mostly. Its getting a balance of fungi to outcompete the production of bio film. I might ad Amylo as a drench late on to boost Nitrate levels so letting the media swing up, but late so i dont lose Fe etc.
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

5,134
313
Yea, it's weird over here. Especially since Monsanto (or I guess bayer now) has the fda in their pocket.

Have you seen any issues with the b. Amylo out competing n-fixing and other beneficial microbes when introduced in high concentrations?
added, are you using much Polysacc in your feeds? You might cut back this sugar to boost fungal counts and organic acids so reducing bio film and N conversion if its a bit rich
 
Savage Henry

Savage Henry

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added, are you using much Polysacc in your feeds? You might cut back this sugar to boost fungal counts and organic acids so reducing bio film and N conversion if its a bit rich

Always appreciate your insights, sir. It's a good thing that our conversations lead me to hours of research.

I was using molasses, which is a monosaccharide I beleive, but cut it out as my root zone temperatures have been warmer and I inferred that the use of molasses in my teas was contributing to some root-rot issues I've been having (and attracting ants).

So in lieu of teas I've just been inoculating my coco weekly with a large assortment of bacteria and fungus from the biowar line of microbes. What you're saying makes a lot of sense because in addition to some root issues, I was getting some ph lockout as well, perhaps from an over abundance of bacteria, encouraged by the molasses, pushing up the ph in my root zone.

Edit: I also didn't realize that the b. Amylo produced (synthesized?) N, I could see that if it blocks fe an over abundance could effect brix levels.
 
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Ecompost

Ecompost

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313
Always appreciate your insights, sir. It's a good thing that our conversations lead me to hours of research.

I was using molasses, which is a monosaccharide I beleive, but cut it out as my root zone temperatures have been warmer and I inferred that the use of molasses in my teas was contributing to some root-rot issues I've been having (and attracting ants).

So in lieu of teas I've just been inoculating my coco weekly with a large assortment of bacteria and fungus from the biowar line of microbes. What you're saying makes a lot of sense because in addition to some root issues, I was getting some ph lockout as well, perhaps from an over abundance of bacteria, encouraged by the molasses, pushing up the ph in my root zone.

Edit: I also didn't realize that the b. Amylo produced (synthesized?) N, I could see that if it blocks fe an over abundance could effect brix levels.
sorry i wasnt very clear, its actions are impacted by levels of N and C in particular, so where we have abundance, we may get a inhibition of BAMH :-) I am a bloody foreigner mate sorry LOL
 
Savage Henry

Savage Henry

960
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Alright, I've been using this stuff for about a month now, at a bit of a higher rate than I mentioned previously. I'm putting about 5ml in a 35 gal Rez.

I noticed the runoff ph of a couple plants dropping significantly. My resevoir sits at 5.8 and my runoff is normally 6.0-6.5. The last couple days the runoff dropped to like 5.3. I checked my resevoir and its ph is still 5.8 but it's all cloudy. It looks like I have an over-abundance of amylo.

@Ecompost do you know if this particular microbe exudes acid? Or perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree?

My roots are the healthiest they've ever been, for now. I just need to come up with some course of corrective action. I'm going to dump the Rez and re-mix it without the amylo. Perhaps if I re-inoculate the pots with a more diverse blend of microbes their little ecosystem will work itself out.
 
Savage Henry

Savage Henry

960
143
Just to add, my runoff ph at the next irrigation was 4.7! This led me to test via the pour-thru method and I got 5.4. We'll see how things go now that I cut out the b. Amylo and raised the resevoir ph to 6.0.

I'm thinking it's so highly concentrated that I should stick to the labeled application frequency instead of using it continuously.
 
Natural

Natural

2,537
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Just to add, my runoff ph at the next irrigation was 4.7! This led me to test via the pour-thru method and I got 5.4. We'll see how things go now that I cut out the b. Amylo and raised the resevoir ph to 6.0.

I'm thinking it's so highly concentrated that I should stick to the labeled application frequency instead of using it continuously.
been meaning to ask you all week about your rez ph with this. Are you using an airstone or mixing pump?
 
Savage Henry

Savage Henry

960
143
been meaning to ask you all week about your rez ph with this. Are you using an airstone or mixing pump?

Stopped using air stones in my Rez a while back when've realized they were making the fulvic acid fall out of solution. Stopped using a circulating pump for the same reason. Any additional DO comes from a 1/4 hose directed back into the Rez from the main drip line. Whenever there's an irrigation cycle some water gets shot back into the Rez from this. Got the idea from @Smokey503ski
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

5,134
313
Alright, I've been using this stuff for about a month now, at a bit of a higher rate than I mentioned previously. I'm putting about 5ml in a 35 gal Rez.

I noticed the runoff ph of a couple plants dropping significantly. My resevoir sits at 5.8 and my runoff is normally 6.0-6.5. The last couple days the runoff dropped to like 5.3. I checked my resevoir and its ph is still 5.8 but it's all cloudy. It looks like I have an over-abundance of amylo.

@Ecompost do you know if this particular microbe exudes acid? Or perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree?

My roots are the healthiest they've ever been, for now. I just need to come up with some course of corrective action. I'm going to dump the Rez and re-mix it without the amylo. Perhaps if I re-inoculate the pots with a more diverse blend of microbes their little ecosystem will work itself out.
more or less all fungus mate :-) also any NH4+ fixing bacteria would likely tip the balance, most Gram postives will screw with acids, may be something is precipitating if its cloudy so binding and swinging the pH?
 

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