Any trellis advice much appreciated

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PerfecTrader

PerfecTrader

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So I am 53 days from sprout into my 1st grow. 2 Chem Cookies and 2 White Widows. I did many things wrong that I will correct next grow but I am where I am for now. All but 1 plant has been topped 3 times(the runt WW just 2 times cause she a sissy) over the 4th node and like a newb I tried to LST by pulling mains to one side of 3g fabrics. This brings me to 1 of 2 things I am stuck with and could use some help on. So I essentially now have 8 tops per plant that are outside of the pots with 1st-3rd branches spread out. Nothing is tied down any longer except the mains on the 2 Chems. If I put up a scrog net and essentially lock myself into the way the plants are placed for flower, how do I best orient the plants for best use of space and light? For instance, 1 way could be with all the tops of each plant closest to each other in the center of the tent or the opposite would be they are all in the corners of the tent. So in a nutshell that is 1 question, how to "situate" them when taking into consideration the mains for each plant were trained over the edge of the pots.
Second question revolves around whether I've over done it so to speak and kept the plants too low for no reason. My light presents no restriction in height and my aim with topping and lst has been to increase yield but now I'm at where I think it is time to start considering a trellis net yet not a single plant is even a foot tall and 2 are barely 10". Should I even use a trellis net? I'm leaning that I for sure should use them considering I trained the mains to one side and worry about maybe the weight snapping stems but I don't know and that is why I'm asking. If I put it up now it will make it pretty damn difficult to get under and hand water like I do. Would be miserable actually. And sheesh how the heck does one lollipop something like mine when the time comes when most I've seen would take my entire plants out in how high they do it. Any thoughts much appreciated
 
Any trellis advice much appreciated
Any trellis advice much appreciated 2
freezeland2

freezeland2

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Trellis for me is more trouble than it’s worth. Wait until your mid flower and need to move or get at a plant. You’ll understand why. Now that isn’t to say they are not productive. You just need to plan how you are going to move around the plants as needed from the outer edges of the canopy.
 
S

Smokeysfarm

12
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Trellis for me is more trouble than it’s worth. Wait until your mid flower and need to move or get at a plant. You’ll understand why. Now that isn’t to say they are not productive. You just need to plan how you are going to move around the plants as needed from the outer edges of the canopy.
Agree, I completely understand what you're saying, took mine down for exactly that reason
 
PerfecTrader

PerfecTrader

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Trellis for me is more trouble than it’s worth. Wait until your mid flower and need to move or get at a plant. You’ll understand why. Now that isn’t to say they are not productive. You just need to plan how you are going to move around the plants as needed from the outer edges of the canopy.
Thanks much and great point. I think I am going to not rush it and wait a bit. Possibly flip to flower in a week or 2 and see if they stretch into needing one
 
freezeland2

freezeland2

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Thanks much and great point. I think I am going to not rush it and wait a bit. Possibly flip to flower in a week or 2 and see if they stretch into needing one
Bend em over as needed. Plastic LST clips applied when you flip helps a lot. Then it becomes managing the stretch with more clips if need be. Works well. It also helps promote bud sites.
 
PerfecTrader

PerfecTrader

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Bend em over as needed. Plastic LST clips applied when you flip helps a lot. Then it becomes managing the stretch with more clips if need be. Works well. It also helps promote bud sites.
Roger that and thank. I have been bending them over daily for like 30 days and now they are 10" tall @ 4-5 weeks of veg lol Definitely seems near time to see em run a bit
 
phxazcraig

phxazcraig

527
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So I am 53 days from sprout into my 1st grow. 2 Chem Cookies and 2 White Widows. I did many things wrong that I will correct next grow but I am where I am for now. All but 1 plant has been topped 3 times(the runt WW just 2 times cause she a sissy) over the 4th node and like a newb I tried to LST by pulling mains to one side of 3g fabrics. This brings me to 1 of 2 things I am stuck with and could use some help on. So I essentially now have 8 tops per plant that are outside of the pots with 1st-3rd branches spread out. Nothing is tied down any longer except the mains on the 2 Chems. If I put up a scrog net and essentially lock myself into the way the plants are placed for flower, how do I best orient the plants for best use of space and light? For instance, 1 way could be with all the tops of each plant closest to each other in the center of the tent or the opposite would be they are all in the corners of the tent. So in a nutshell that is 1 question, how to "situate" them when taking into consideration the mains for each plant were trained over the edge of the pots.
Second question revolves around whether I've over done it so to speak and kept the plants too low for no reason. My light presents no restriction in height and my aim with topping and lst has been to increase yield but now I'm at where I think it is time to start considering a trellis net yet not a single plant is even a foot tall and 2 are barely 10". Should I even use a trellis net? I'm leaning that I for sure should use them considering I trained the mains to one side and worry about maybe the weight snapping stems but I don't know and that is why I'm asking. If I put it up now it will make it pretty damn difficult to get under and hand water like I do. Would be miserable actually. And sheesh how the heck does one lollipop something like mine when the time comes when most I've seen would take my entire plants out in how high they do it. Any thoughts much appreciated
I have two uses for a net. And I'm talking one of those stretchy nets with 4x4 holes. One is to space the buds out. The other is to support branches with too-heavy buds. The second case you can worry about later if/when needed. It should be obvious and also easy to put on at the right stage.

But for spreading the canopy out, I find it very handy to direct branches through individual holes. I sometimes add planter wire between the (large) holes to further restrict a branch. This works fine, but wouldn't be started until your plants are a bit taller. When I do this I also end up with a second net higher up.

This fixes the plants in the tent. It doe make it difficult to get to the rear plants, but they grow a nicely-spread canopy.

If using a small-opening tent or screen to flatten the canopy you would wait longer. And figure your plants to double in height once you flip them to flower. Mine are over five foot now and causing space issues.
 
Dub_City405

Dub_City405

626
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I use a trellis for 2 reasons. 1 to train the branches evenly so the light gets in between the the canopy. And to hold the branches up when I'm in flower week 8 through 10.
 
PerfecTrader

PerfecTrader

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263
I have two uses for a net. And I'm talking one of those stretchy nets with 4x4 holes. One is to space the buds out. The other is to support branches with too-heavy buds. The second case you can worry about later if/when needed. It should be obvious and also easy to put on at the right stage.

But for spreading the canopy out, I find it very handy to direct branches through individual holes. I sometimes add planter wire between the (large) holes to further restrict a branch. This works fine, but wouldn't be started until your plants are a bit taller. When I do this I also end up with a second net higher up.

This fixes the plants in the tent. It doe make it difficult to get to the rear plants, but they grow a nicely-spread canopy.

If using a small-opening tent or screen to flatten the canopy you would wait longer. And figure your plants to double in height once you flip them to flower. Mine are over five foot now and causing space issues.
Thanks much growmie. I have a 4x4 and 6x6 net so am going to flip to flower in a week-ish and assess if time for 1st net. I've kept them so short that I'm kinda regretting it
 
phxazcraig

phxazcraig

527
93
Thanks much growmie. I have a 4x4 and 6x6 net so am going to flip to flower in a week-ish and assess if time for 1st net. I've kept them so short that I'm kinda regretting it
Do NOT regret it! Short height preserves your options. Have a look at some of my posts - I just had to replace my grow tent mid-flower with a taller one. That included cutting up one net to move plants, and with some trauma pulling the other back from 4-6 inches of growth. A week later my plants have grown 15 inches and I'm going to need a too-heavy-branches net next. Or one to flatten the canopy. Force them sideways early. If you already have branches coming up side-by-side, tie them down to get them moving in the right direction. I'd get that done before flipping to flower.
 
PerfecTrader

PerfecTrader

1,176
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Do NOT regret it! Short height preserves your options. Have a look at some of my posts - I just had to replace my grow tent mid-flower with a taller one. That included cutting up one net to move plants, and with some trauma pulling the other back from 4-6 inches of growth. A week later my plants have grown 15 inches and I'm going to need a too-heavy-branches net next. Or one to flatten the canopy. Force them sideways early. If you already have branches coming up side-by-side, tie them down to get them moving in the right direction. I'd get that done before flipping to flower.
Oh yeah I followed your thread and I'm here prolly 30 min from you in AZ 💪
Yeah you are right. The only reason and I mean only reason that I said I regret it is that I have hand watered with a garden sprayer the whole grow and I keep envisioning a canopy that appears would be so low that feeding seems it will become rocket science. Definitely automating feed next grow but for now has kinda sucked and will only get harder once I no longer can move them around to feed and I start havin to crawl around under the canopy lol I always imagined mine would be more like other peoples grows and when they lollipop there is 2-3 feet of branches and to me that would be awesome for ease of feeding but with 53 day old 10" high plants I'm like wait wtf happened
 
phxazcraig

phxazcraig

527
93
Oh yeah I followed your thread and I'm here prolly 30 min from you in AZ 💪
Yeah you are right. The only reason and I mean only reason that I said I regret it is that I have hand watered with a garden sprayer the whole grow and I keep envisioning a canopy that appears would be so low that feeding seems it will become rocket science. Definitely automating feed next grow but for now has kinda sucked and will only get harder once I no longer can move them around to feed and I start havin to crawl around under the canopy lol I always imagined mine would be more like other peoples grows and when they lollipop there is 2-3 feet of branches and to me that would be awesome for ease of feeding but with 53 day old 10" high plants I'm like wait wtf happened
I hand-watered my last crop for 5 months, 5 plants in a 4x4. It was indeed somewhat a pain to get to those back plants. Low capacity, long stem watering can helps. Or you can simply set up what I have even now. It is simple and can as easily run once every two days as 5x daily. If you go to cocoforcannabis.com you'll not only get step by step components to buy, you even get Amazon links to buy them. The 14-gallon reservoir was the most expensive component. The rest is a fountain pump, a tier, an aquarium bubbler and some tubing. And if you go for the auto-draining saucers like I did, you'll appreciate being able to raise the pots a bit. (The more the better there, but need at least 3-4 inches for the draining to work.)

Where in AZ? I'm just south of Anthem. Been north side of Phoenix since 1980.
 
PerfecTrader

PerfecTrader

1,176
263
I hand-watered my last crop for 5 months, 5 plants in a 4x4. It was indeed somewhat a pain to get to those back plants. Low capacity, long stem watering can helps. Or you can simply set up what I have even now. It is simple and can as easily run once every two days as 5x daily. If you go to cocoforcannabis.com you'll not only get step by step components to buy, you even get Amazon links to buy them. The 14-gallon reservoir was the most expensive component. The rest is a fountain pump, a tier, an aquarium bubbler and some tubing. And if you go for the auto-draining saucers like I did, you'll appreciate being able to raise the pots a bit. (The more the better there, but need at least 3-4 inches for the draining to work.)

Where in AZ? I'm just south of Anthem. Been north side of Phoenix since 1980.
Oh hell yeah. That DIY you run from CFC is the shit and basically what I'm upgrading to next grow. I live in Scottsdale like cactus/101
 
Zombierider

Zombierider

812
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@PerfecTrader autowatering is the shit, when I envisioned my scrog setup I thought to myself “how the fuck am I gonna get underneath this monstrosity”? Auto watering is that answer, but it does take some fine tuning in my experience. I went with the Floraflex setup instead of making my own system w/cocoforcannabis tutorial. It’s super easy and I think it’s a tad cheaper in the long run. I use a brute 20 gallon trash can (make sure your res doesn’t leach chemicals, https://www.aquagardening.com.au/le.../plastic-types-in-hydroponics-and-aquaponics/ ), which will save you some money over the res cocoforcannabis recommends.
Good job on the trellis net bro, did you flip them to flower yet or are you gonna wait a bit? And don’t regret keeping them short. Mine were also hella short, but after lollipopping and letting them grow a bit all that short growth will become a mass of colas stretching to the sky. Any plans for a second trellis net? I’m trying to figure when to install mine.
Happy growing!
 
phxazcraig

phxazcraig

527
93
2nd trellis net - I'm not sure I'm going to use one this time. Only if I need to support too-heavy buds, and I don't know that's going to happen.

Over the last couple of weeks of veg and first couple of flower, when a lot of stretching occurred, I used a technique I saw on a defoliating video somewhere here. Besides defoliating a lot of leaves (much more than I did), I also used fingers to mash the stems of as many stems as I could reach above the canopy. I physically broke the stems - not bent, but crushed a bit.

When the stems healed, they became much stiffer and a bit thicker. The video described this as like breaking a bone. Once the bone heals, it is stronger at the break site than it was before it was broken. Indeed, my stems are so stiff that they can support enormous buds without support now.
 
Zombierider

Zombierider

812
143
2nd trellis net - I'm not sure I'm going to use one this time. Only if I need to support too-heavy buds, and I don't know that's going to happen.

Over the last couple of weeks of veg and first couple of flower, when a lot of stretching occurred, I used a technique I saw on a defoliating video somewhere here. Besides defoliating a lot of leaves (much more than I did), I also used fingers to mash the stems of as many stems as I could reach above the canopy. I physically broke the stems - not bent, but crushed a bit.

When the stems healed, they became much stiffer and a bit thicker. The video described this as like breaking a bone. Once the bone heals, it is stronger at the break site than it was before it was broken. Indeed, my stems are so stiff that they can support enormous buds without support now.
I believe the technique your referring to is super cropping. I’m gonna try that next grow, looks like a cool way to train the plants. How high above your first trellis did you out your second one in? Trying to gauge when to put mine in, in 1st week of flower.
 
phxazcraig

phxazcraig

527
93
I believe the technique your referring to is super cropping. I’m gonna try that next grow, looks like a cool way to train the plants. How high above your first trellis did you out your second one in? Trying to gauge when to put mine in, in 1st week of flower.
1. No, I'm not supercropping. I'm referring to simply supporting the heavier buds. I have a lower net which was at the canopy level about the time I started flowering. The sole purpose of that net is to spread the branches apart to fill the tent. Supercropping involves bending taller buds back under the net. I did that (successfully) for part of the flowering, but I ran out of height and had to swap tents. When I did the swap, my netting job pretty much fell apart. I had to cut the lower net to move the plants, and while I was able to pull the top net at that time, I never replaced it. I did stick a net on there, forcing the branches back through in an attempt to spread the branches again, but the plants were so big I was only partially able to get the branches where I wanted them.

But, since I crunched those stems (no bending, just a 'crunching' of the stems every inch or so). they are so stiff and strong that I don't think I'll need another net. I decided to let them grow up instead of scrog'ing when I replace the tent with a taller one. In retrospect I might have done better doing a bit of scrog after the tent swap as the plants are still too tall.

2. When I do a second net, I generally place it 6 to 8 inches above the first one. But it depends on whether you are guiding branches through certain holes to spread them, or if you are trying to control height by bending the buds back under the net when they pop through and get too tall.

In any case, one tends to cut all the leaves off below the lower net (lollipop).

No hard rule - stick your net where it does some good and you'll be fine. Can always buy another net and add it.
 
PerfecTrader

PerfecTrader

1,176
263
Day 3 of flower and as suspected 1 of the white widows(back left) is a sprinter and the one of the bunch you can easily see grow daily. I faced her tops toward her runt sister and don't care if they overtake her corner completely. Think I'm going to start adding half strength AN Big Bud start of week 2. Trellis net is a nightmare to deal with but just gonna keep playing things day by day
 
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CannaGranny

CannaGranny

750
143
@PerfecTrader autowatering is the shit, when I envisioned my scrog setup I thought to myself “how the fuck am I gonna get underneath this monstrosity”? Auto watering is that answer, but it does take some fine tuning in my experience. I went with the Floraflex setup instead of making my own system w/cocoforcannabis tutorial. It’s super easy and I think it’s a tad cheaper in the long run. I use a brute 20 gallon trash can (make sure your res doesn’t leach chemicals, https://www.aquagardening.com.au/le.../plastic-types-in-hydroponics-and-aquaponics/ ), which will save you some money over the res cocoforcannabis recommends.
Good job on the trellis net bro, did you flip them to flower yet or are you gonna wait a bit? And don’t regret keeping them short. Mine were also hella short, but after lollipopping and letting them grow a bit all that short growth will become a mass of colas stretching to the sky. Any plans for a second trellis net? I’m trying to figure when to install mine.
Happy growing!
Install when those buds are swollen and heavy. Mainly to staunch them up so they don’t bend and break off 🙂
 
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