Aqua Man planning organics (Questions)

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Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Its bottled weed specific plant food. 6 years ago it was quite the fad in coco at the grow stores.

its mostly plant usable. Can be poured right in the medium.
Meh, not sure why you're so hung up on it. Yes it is mostly usable, but again a large portion of it isn't. I can't say that about pbp.
pbp was good stuff, I'm just trying something different. Combined with the dry 4-4-4 id wager that about half my feed is coming from insoluble sources
And EJ is almost a 30 year old fert line. I certainly wouldn't call it a fad. It worked extremely well for me before.

Keep in mind the EJ is just supplementing the feed program in my grow anyway, the 4-4-4 is providing base nutrition.

the gaia green 4-4-4 is alo organic and its good stuff, its made from alfalfa meal, bone meal, blood meal, glacial rock dust, potassium sulphate, fossilised carbon complex, rock phosphate, greensand, kelp meal, and gypsum. Its pretty much what goes in a coots or tom hill mix, but its ready to use. Still needs healthy soil biology to make it work.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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By naturally occurring bacteria.
Yes I agree but whats wrong with adding? They are also naturally occurring bacteria... notbsure how adding them is a harm?

I'm still looking at the roots. Whats been made already available? The ingredients are all fully organic. Its not available until the microbes process it.
 
bigbagofbuds

bigbagofbuds

? I'm lost how are organics broken down?
As I understand it bacteria and fungi decompose the organic matter down into salts and then trade the salts with the plants in exchange for sugars. You dont need to add the microbes though it will help, they are common in the enivronment so they are always present.

I like the simplicity of 4-4-4 and 2-8-4 Gaia Green ammendments with coco. I also add crab and alfalfa meal for their Chitin, Calcium, and Triacontanol content.
 
bigbagofbuds

bigbagofbuds

Yes I agree but whats wrong with adding? They are also naturally occurring bacteria... notbsure how adding them is a harm?

I'm still looking at the roots. Whats been made already available? The ingredients are all fully organic. Its not available until the microbes process it.
I think what MiMedGrower is getting at is that the organic matter has been pre processed to improve the speed of absorbtion, this could be done using chemicals, enzymes, fermentation microbes, etc... The devil is in the details, some processes are more natural than others, but at the end of the day the plants still get what they want.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

You dont need to add microbes. Especially if starting with fresh vermicompost or other fresh compost. But it certainly doesn't hurt, especially when the addatives contain some things that are highly beneficial and not likely to dominate the pot naturally like trichoderma and bacillis amyloquiefens.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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You dont need to add microbes. Especially if starting with fresh vermicompost or other fresh compost. But it certainly doesn't hurt, especially when the addatives contain some things that are highly beneficial and not likely to dominate the pot naturally like trichoderma and bacillis amyloquiefens.
I agree and bacteria take time to populate. @MIMedGrower the soil you have has enough ferts in it until the microbial life can kick in. In something like coco that does not then you need to add them.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

I wonder what is actually happening during the "cook" time recommended for supersoil mixes. Does it sit for a month because it takes that long to fully populate with wild bacteria and fungi and get tbe nutrient cycling going? Or is it just that the microbes break down insoluble food during that month?

If its the former, that would be a good reason for introducing exogenous microbes, just to jump start it.

I honestly am not sure about this but now I'm curious.

You can really be a bubble burster @MIMedGrower Lol, but I like that you're constantly making me look deeper into why I do some of the crazy things I do. I appreciate when someone is willing to call me or anyone out on their shit, because I'm well aware that everyone, myself included is susceptible to confirmation bias and believing in unverified science.

That said, Im pretty comfortable standing behind the decisions ive made for this grow. Some of it is possibly unnecessary, but maybe its helping. I do think the added microbes will help with breaking down the 4-4-4 faster. And EJ is about as fully organic as you can get in a bottle. No salts, not chemically chelated, and semi insoluble.. Its really only one foot out the door from true "water only" organics.

I'm rambling now lol. Smoking some Spiked Punch buddy brought me, its the same cut I've got. And it messes me up lol.
 
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MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

I wonder what is actually happening during the "cook" time recommended for supersoil mixes. Does it sit for a month because it takes that long to fully populate with wild bacteria and fungi and get tbe nutrient cycling going? Or is it just that the microbes break down insoluble food during that month?

If its the former, that would be a good reason for introducing exogenous microbes, just to jump start it.

I honestly am not sure about this but now I'm curious.

You can really be a bubble burster @MIMedGrower Lol, but I like that you're constantly making me look deeper into why I do some of the crazy things I do. I appreciate when someone is willing to call me or anyone out on their shit, because I'm well aware that everyone, myself included is susceptible to confirmation bias and believing in unverified science.

That said, Im pretty comfortable standing behind the decisions ive made for this grow. Some of it is possibly unnecessary, but maybe its helping. I do think the added microbes will help with breaking down the 4-4-4 faster. And EJ is about as fully organic as you can get in a bottle. No salts, not chemically chelated, and semi insoluble.. Its really only one foot out the door from true "water only" organics.

I'm rambling now lol. Smoking some Spiked Punch buddy brought me, its the same cut I've got. And it messes me up lol.

Its not that i want to burst bubbles but I want to know the truth in a muddled world of gardening bro science.


and i have nothing against earth juice or roots organic. I was considering dr. Earth 20-30-20 gold. Which is like the rest of the dry pelletized organic plant food. Well until i thought about smelly organics. And the pests they attract. I havent seen a springtail since i ditched the ocean forest.

Also i watched a video with the owner of dr. Earth and he says dont use the dry food inside in containers. Too smelly and too slow for reliable breakdown. He suggests his liquid fertilizer for containers.

anyway. I am trying the ozmocote in the next plants so i can mostly water only and use dyna grow bottles more sparingly. The chemical version of what i did with ocean forest and pbp.

And i am equally interested in your grow with earth juice. I didnt mean to sound against it. Lol

i just thought when you and @Aqua Man said teas that you were building soil. Er, coco. I assume you have access to good compost?

anyway best of luck with whatever method. As long as you are enjoying yourself its the best method ever!
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

I agree and bacteria take time to populate. @MIMedGrower the soil you have has enough ferts in it until the microbial life can kick in. In something like coco that does not then you need to add them.
I see what he is saying in that you really technically don't as long as the coco is premixed with quality compost or worm compost and allowed to sit for a while before growing in it. The bacteria and fungi will appear on their own and spawn from the compost. But I also still feel that there is an advantage to dosing the media with a wider range of microbes than what might occur naturally. Especially in terms of protection against pathogenic fungi and bacteria and promoting overall root health.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Its not that i want to burst bubbles but I want to know the truth in a muddled world of gardening bro science.


and i have nothing against earth juice or roots organic. I was considering dr. Earth 20-30-20 gold. Which is like the rest of the dry pelletized organic plant food. Well until i thought about smelly organics. And the pests they attract. I havent seen a springtail since i ditched the ocean forest.

Also i watched a video with the owner of dr. Earth and he says dont use the dry food inside in containers. Too smelly and too slow for reliable breakdown. He suggests his liquid fertilizer for containers.

anyway. I am trying the ozmocote in the next plants so i can mostly water only and use dyna grow bottles more sparingly. The chemical version of what i did with ocean forest and pbp.

And i am equally interested in your grow with earth juice. I didnt mean to sound against it. Lol

i just thought when you and @Aqua Man said teas that you were building soil. Er, coco. I assume you have access to good compost?

anyway best of luck with whatever method. As long as you are enjoying yourself its the best method ever!
Its all good man! I enjoy the interaction and find these discissions hugely informative.

And yeah I'm not really doing many teas, but I have made them a lot in the past and thats what I was referencing. I might do a ferment if I can find the time. Otherwise the only tea I'm brewing is Earth juice in 20 gallons of water lol.
 
Odiesel

Odiesel

Ok I need someone to explain what is not organic about the specific nutrients I linked?

i know nothing but i wouldnt see it any different than if you were mixing these seperate ingredients on your own into the coco. seems pretty "organic" to me and what exactly do we mean by that? does it have to have an OMRI on it to be considered organic?
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

i know nothing but i wouldnt see it any different than if you were mixing these seperate ingredients on your own into the coco. seems pretty "organic" to me and what exactly do we mean by that? does it have to have an OMRI on it to be considered organic?
To me it means that there is no salts or chemical chelates, and the nutrients are entirely digested and made available through biological rather than chemical processes.
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

i know nothing but i wouldnt see it any different than if you were mixing these seperate ingredients on your own into the coco. seems pretty "organic" to me and what exactly do we mean by that? does it have to have an OMRI on it to be considered organic?

no. I thought he was going to use microbes in coco to breakdown natural inputs like in a super soil.

and i think omri is just a contrived list of products the company wanted to pay to be included in.
 
Madmax

Madmax

Hi Aqua...guys...i gotta question if bacteria are breaking down the coir would this b releasing the hold the coir has on calcium and magnesium therefore making it available to the plants?
 
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