Autoflower harvest timing, your thoughts?

[DaNk_OzarK]

Going forward, keep your foliage dry especially during flowering. I know many people will suggest a foliar feeding for some issues and in those instances I would probably look it as a case by case situation ... as a rule though, keep your plants dry and always during flower.

I agree. Foliar spray can be beneficial, but it does invited the unexpected. I would personally use it as a last resort, for a severe deficiency, or pest invasion.

If I buy this...

4-Pack Self-Watering Fabric Pot Base and Grow Bags Set, Auto-Irrigation Water Delivery System with Reservoir Meter

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then I cannot possibly over-water once I set the rate, and there is no possibility of a water pump jamming and catching fire due to chinese sabotage.
Right?

I haven't jumped into this auto watering realm yet. But I have dozens of friends that have. I like the idea,but I'm good for making mistakes from time to time. I'd hate to rely on a system that does it automatically, and get comfortable. While it ruins my harvest

In addition to the Rosenthal book, I'd look at Dr Bruce Bugbee podcasts on YouTube. Salts are easy if not over-used. Organic requires some knowledge of timing so nutrients are available when the plant calls on. Both ways of growing will benefit from what you can read and view ... but experience is huge in growing top shelf cannabis. It takes practice but I'm sure you can learn. It's not that hard actually.

Lots of information out there. Be careful, do your homework. Anytime you implement changes give it a few weeks to see a positive or negative effects.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

I agree. Foliar spray can be beneficial, but it does invited the unexpected. I would personally use it as a last resort, for a severe deficiency, or pest invasion.

I haven't jumped into this auto watering realm yet. But I have dozens of friends that have. I like the idea,but I'm good for making mistakes from time to time. I'd hate to rely on a system that does it automatically, and get comfortable. While it ruins my harvest

Lots of information out there. Be careful, do your homework. Anytime you implement changes give it a few weeks to see a positive or negative effects.

So true, if you make too many changes at once there's no way to determine which has helped and which have not. I'd always start with the basics though ... adjust the environment and light to fit your growing stages and so on ...

After posting the link here: https://www.amazon.com/Spider-Farme...d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&tag=thcfarmer-20&th=1

I purchased 2 sets of 4 for use in my greenhouse. I will test them out with bell peppers.

 

[Eledin]

View attachment 2434410View attachment 2434411

So this is a couple days versus more than a week in flower. Four top leaves showing nute deficiency right after flower halted and seemed even to shrink the rust colored spots with 0-50-32 Budcharge. Happy to catch and fix shit but I'd rather get ahead of the game. Perhaps there is no substitute for just making mistakes.

Something that nobody seems to have mentioend or not that I saw (sorry if I missed it) is that you started using the PK booster way too early. PK boosters are for mid-late flower, starting at week 3 of flower after theyre done stretching (and hence wont need as much nitrogen) and you should still use an NPK base and be careful not to overfeed them.

 

[ChairmanFester]

Something that nobody seems to have mentioend or not that I saw (sorry if I missed it) is that you started using the PK booster way too early. PK boosters are for mid-late flower, starting at week 3 of flower after theyre done stretching (and hence wont need as much nitrogen) and you should still use an NPK base and be careful not to overfeed them.

Oh shit, yes I thought it was to start during "real flowering" when it gains height. If nitrogen dips what's a boost for that only?

 

[Eledin]

Oh shit, yes I thought it was to start during "real flowering" when it gains height. If nitrogen dips what's a boost for that only?

It is, when they are already full of pistils and stop growing vertically, but that usually takes 2 to 3 weeks and you said its a little more than a week into flower right? Pistils are also maturing because the buds are not gonna fatten much due to the problems it had, happened to me too, but if you feed it correctly youre still in time to get some very smokeable buds. I dont understand what you said about nitrogen, english is my second language, could you choose different words? Sorry hahaha.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Oh shit, yes I thought it was to start during "real flowering" when it gains height. If nitrogen dips what's a boost for that only?

Actually you want your nitrogen to dip during flowering. There is still a need so don't eliminate it. You just need less and less as you approach the end of your grow. I like to use this chart to help people visualize what nutrient is in demand at what time.

Edit: As you see later in the grow after your plant "size" has pretty much been set, you see the need for potassium peak. It's at this time you would use a PK boost ... or if you're me, I continue with the feed chart recommendations for GH flora series and add a potassium sulfate "sweetener" to help fatten up my buds.

 

[ChairmanFester]

Visuals are great, I hope this helps others too. Thanks.

 

[Eledin]

Actually you want your nitrogen to dip during flowering. There is still a need so don't eliminate it. You just need less and less as you approach the end of your grow. I like to use this chart to help people visualize what nutrient is in demand at what time.

View attachment 2434884

Edit: As you see later in the grow after your plant "size" has pretty much been set, you see the need for potassium peak. It's at this time you would use a PK boost ... or if you're me, I continue with the feed chart recommendations for GH flora series and add a potassium sulfate "sweetener" to help fatten up my buds.

That chart can be a little bit missleading even though I used it in the past because from week 2 of flower it reflects what you should use. But for a new grower... where is the NPK during veg and early flower? According to that chart, you only start feeding anything else than nitrogen at week 2 of flower which is insane. If your soil has enough NPK sure, but if you buy a light mix for seedlings youre gonna need NPK way before flower, specially for photoperiods but also for many autos.

 

[Eledin]

Also I would recommend that you dump that substrate and get a peat only based soil, or peat with a bit of coco, perlite is always welcome aswell. Those kinds of soil with uncomposted wood have given me more headaches than anything else. The best one I tried so far is peatless soil from biobizz in my attempt to be more eco friendly but it only performed similar when I mixed it 50-50 with a peat based soil... What brand is it if you dont mind me asking?

 

[ChairmanFester]

It is actually the cheapest most untouched basic seedling soil available, recommended so by a friend. Theory being that you add everything to it yourself.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

That chart can be a little bit missleading even though I used it in the past because from week 2 of flower it reflects what you should use. But for a new grower... where is the NPK during veg and early flower? According to that chart, you only start feeding anything else than nitrogen at week 2 of flower which is insane. If your soil has enough NPK sure, but if you buy a light mix for seedlings youre gonna need NPK way before flower, specially for photoperiods but also for many autos.

I don't find it misleading at all. But here is how I use it ... I use my nutrient chart (GH Flora series) pretty much just how its posted online. I don't run cal-mag during veg unless I see signs of a calcium deficiency issue ... which in a good mix its rare ... Instead I use epsom salts up until the start of week 2 since I changed to 12/12 at that point I stop using epsom salts. At the start of the second week, I use GH Calimagic at the amounts listed on the Flora series charts. The reason I do this is because of calcium lockout. It happens frequently in soil if its used from the start of veg.

Then I add in my K supplement at about the start of week 4. I run with that until the final weeks of the grow. Of course, this would be for an 8 week cultivar. Adjust accordingly based on the cultivar you're growing.

As you see, I'm using it as a guide when to add in the extras. All through the grow, I'm relying on a proven regimen posted by General Hydroponics. I understand if you look at this too literally, then yes it is misleading. But using it as a guide to help with timing works very well.

Also I would recommend that you dump that substrate and get a peat only based soil, or peat with a bit of coco, perlite is always welcome aswell. Those kinds of soil with uncomposted wood have given me more headaches than anything else. The best one I tried so far is peatless soil from biobizz in my attempt to be more eco friendly but it only performed similar when I mixed it 50-50 with a peat based soil... What brand is it if you dont mind me asking?

I'm not a fan of mixing substrates with potting soil (coco for example). A high quality potting mix is already calibrated by the factory and doesn't need that kind of adjustment. It only needs more perlite. My go-to soil mixes are Fox Farm's Ocean Forest or Roots Organic -Original. Price vs performance, its a good buy for your dollar at least in my area where both can be purchased for less than $15 for a 1.5 cubic ft bag ... out the door.

 

[Eledin]

I don't find it misleading at all. But here is how I use it ... I use my nutrient chart (GH Flora series) pretty much just how its posted online. I don't run cal-mag during veg unless I see signs of a calcium deficiency issue ... which in a good mix its rare ... Instead I use epsom salts up until the start of week 2 since I changed to 12/12 at that point I stop using epsom salts. At the start of the second week, I use GH Calimagic at the amounts listed on the Flora series charts. The reason I do this is because of calcium lockout. It happens frequently in soil if its used from the start of veg.

Then I add in my K supplement at about the start of week 4. I run with that until the final weeks of the grow. Of course, this would be for an 8 week cultivar. Adjust accordingly based on the cultivar you're growing.

As you see, I'm using it as a guide when to add in the extras. All through the grow, I'm relying on a proven regimen posted by General Hydroponics. I understand if you look at this too literally, then yes it is misleading. But using it as a guide to help with timing works very well.



I'm not a fan of mixing substrates with potting soil (coco for example). A high quality potting mix is already calibrated by the factory and doesn't need that kind of adjustment. It only needs more perlite. My go-to soil mixes are Fox Farm's Ocean Forest or Roots Organic -Original.

It works for you because you only follow it for flower. Its also an aptus chart, they wonly work with organic nutrients for organic soils with ammendments thats why they dont show NPK in veg. They also sell each nute sepparately and thats the ratio THEY think is best with THEIR nutrients, N booster, P booster and K booster. Its up for debate if thats the best NPK ratio but as I said I take it as a good guideline for flower and flower only and I think what youre saying is way too confusing for a new grower when he can just... follow the chart of his nutes. Not all nutes are created equal, much like soil they come calibrated according to the chemical form of the NPK and micronutrients added if any. Adding 10% of coco coir to your peat soil will not alter in any way your soil composition except for giving it more areation. What I would never do is mix coco with peat 50/50 because Ive already done it and its shit like you said but manny comercial brands that sell peat soils come with coco as a soil conditioner.
You are using a soil that is full of composted ammendments too, he says that he has a "do it yourself" soil which means its either mostly inert material or a light mix, unlike Ocean Forest. You see why it is confusing?

 

[Eledin]

It is actually the cheapest most untouched basic seedling soil available, recommended so by a friend. Theory being that you add everything to it yourself.

I see, do you mind if I take a look at it? How is it called?

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

It works for you because you only follow it for flower. Its also an aptus chart, they wonly work with organic nutrients for organic soils with ammendments thats why they dont show NPK in veg. They also sell each nute sepparately and thats the ratio THEY think is best with THEIR nutrients, N booster, P booster and K booster. Its up for debate if thats the best NPK ratio but as I said I take it as a good guideline for flower and flower only and I think what youre saying is way too confusing for a new grower when he can just... follow the chart of his nutes. Not all nutes are created equal, much like soil they come calibrated according to the chemical form of the NPK and micronutrients added if any. Adding 10% of coco coir to your peat soil will not alter in any way your soil composition except for giving it more areation. What I would never do is mix coco with peat 50/50 because Ive already done it and its shit like you said but manny comercial brands that sell peat soils come with coco as a soil conditioner.
You are using a soil that is full of composted ammendments too, he says that he has a "do it yourself" soil which means its either mostly inert material or a light mix, unlike Ocean Forest. You see why it is confusing?

I frequently will add up to 10% perlite. I want a fast drying mix. But again, that is me ...

I agree what you're saying about growing organically. Organic farming is a timing game. If its not readily available when the plant calls for it, the plant suffers. I'm not one who recommends organic farming to new growers. I think its better for the newbie to get a few salts based grows under their belt so they have a good understanding of how the plant grows before attempting organics. Organics is not a very easy thing to do for many new growers.

 

[Eledin]

I feel you with the perlite, I live in a very humid area and my soil needs at the very least 20% perlite. I used to buy biobizz light mix and ammend it myself, because it comes with 30% perlite and its perfect for me, but after a few buys I thought "dude, youre paying a lot of money for a lot of perlite" hahahaha so I just add it myself like you, even though the soils I buy already have some. Also I use vermiculite aswell which doesnt help at all with drying, quite the contrary, but its an excellent nutrient buffer because possitively charged ions stick to it, so the solution again is more perlite and some coco hahaha. I agree, going organic can be very tricky but if you buy a light mix soil and use liquid organic ferts according to a chart with added microorganisms it should be fine. For begginers who dont wanna start with organics I always recommend sensi ph perfect from AN. Its bio-mineral, meaning its not organic but it doesnt come from a lab either, it comes from natural geological processes and its perfectly compatible with microorganisms. Its very complete with NPK, all chelated minerals, a shit ton of aminoacids and humic acids. Very easy to follow, keeps your ph at around 6,5 (its always good to check it though, it helps but is not magic).

 

[Eledin]

Okay my last post for now, I just wanna ilustrate with NPK ratios can be so very different depending on what nutrients youre using. Here is a bottle of Iguana Juice, my go to choice for pushing nutes in flower:

You might think wow thats a lot of nitrogen for flower, isnt it? It would be if it wasnt because it comes with calcium, when you add extra calcium you need ideally more nitrogen, potassium and if possible but least important silica. Instead of using a calmag, which most if not all of them contain nitrogen, its inside the base NPK.
That said, once fattening is over I swap to a more nitrogen light NPK base. Alghemp F from Trabe which contains way less nitrogen and calcium.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Okay my last post for now, I just wanna ilustrate with NPK ratios can be so very different depending on what nutrients youre using. Here is a bottle of Iguana Juice, my go to choice for pushing nutes in flower:
View attachment 2434900
You might think wow thats a lot of nitrogen for flower, isnt it? It would be if it wasnt because it comes with calcium, when you add extra calcium you need ideally more nitrogen, potassium and if possible but least important silica. Instead of using a calmag, which most if not all of them contain nitrogen, its inside the base NPK.

That's correct.

My flora series already has calcium in it. It's part of why extra calcium isn't needed until later in the grow. Too much calcium will lock out pretty much everything else.

I think what confuses many new growers is that the 4-3-6 represents a ratio. What's not fully understood by most new growers is the importance of delivering the nutrients in ratios it expects. It's like the calcium lockout issue ... Take magnesium for instance ... It's not that it isn't in the soil. The plant isn't able to "see It" through all the calcium. And although its more complex than my simple example, the outcome is still the same. Deficiency expressed in the foliage.

 

[Eledin]

Yup yup, thats why its important to follow a chart until you know enough to start messing around by adding your mixes or ammendments. Some people get confused with the NPK but the ratio is still a bit nitrogen heavy with Iguana Juice compared to other flowering nutrients just because it comes with calcium. Alhemp F from trabe which is the one I use to finish them has an NPK ratio of 1-4-4 and its kelp based so it contains a very very small ammount of calcium but nothing that requires extra nitrogen.
Many people saturate their soil thinking the more the better, but we all learn by fucking up most of the times. I can say a thousand things, a person can only retain so much information and it registers way better in your memory when it bothered you.

 

[ChairmanFester]

Thankfully some of that sounds like english. Someone somewhere has to be working on a useful AI assistant on all this.

 

[ChairmanFester]

I'm a man of my word, the light thing improved over all color in a day at half again height. You... win?