Best practice to lower soil pH?

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Aqua Man

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And just to clarify the use of Ammonium Sulfate. It's not good to use in the beginning of the grow when the soil is loaded with raw nutes. Ammonium Sulfate adds N and S.

So if I ever bought soil (never gonna happen) that was 7.8 pH before planting, I would do an extensive acid flush with citric acid. It does not affect NPK or deposit metal into lungs. Then I would inoculate with lactobacillus for long term gradual acid production within the media.

There are many ways to inoculate with lacto, but most lacto is ill suited to ferment at 70-80F. That's why I would skip the crunchy bro approved "banana peel lacto ferment" or similar concoction and buy some lactobacillus plantarum which works well in the 70-80F range.
Your not going to lower PH with bacteria very efficiently and especially not over a longer period of time… not with citric acid either… it simply breaks down to fast
 
Aqua Man

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Sounds like two more good reasons to grow in peat with salts. 😀
Are you doubting what in saying? If you like i can post a shit ton of examples of heavy metals and pathogens from organics. Thats not to say organic is bad and doesnt have its place
 
Peat_Phreak

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Your not going to lower PH with bacteria very efficiently and especially not over a longer period of time… not with citric acid either… it simply breaks down to fast

I use citric acid for the entire grow and don't get pH lock out. It has also been successful in lowering pH quickly with an acid flush. It's not good for hydro tho.

Why do you say bacteria can't lower it? A constant supply of pure acid in the media has to lower it. The microbes I suggested can make 5 gallons of 3.0 pH beer in a week. The amount of acid produced in a soil system depends on the inoculation rate and how well they are fed.
 
Peat_Phreak

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Are you doubting what in saying? If you like i can post a shit ton of examples of heavy metals and pathogens from organics. Thats not to say organic is bad and doesnt have its place
I'm not doubting what you are saying about dirt and organic nutes having plenty of heavy metals.
 
Aqua Man

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I use citric acid for the entire grow and don't get pH lock out. It has also been successful in lowering pH quickly with an acid flush. It's not good for hydro tho.

Why do you say bacteria can't lower it? A constant supply of pure acid in the media has to lower it. The microbes I suggested can make 5 gallons of 3.0 pH beer in a week. The amount of acid produced in a soil system depends on the inoculation rate and how well they are fed.
because bacteria populations are ditectly related to food source and population booms and busts extremely fast… its true they do produce acid and respiration produces co2 whoch forms carbonic acid but all of these are leached easily and offgassed quickly. It has the potential to influence the immediate ph but not manage it long term.

i dont doubt what you see for results for a second… But rather the reasons you see them.
 
Peat_Phreak

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I've never actually had to add lacto to any media. So I can't confirm or deny anything. Just doing some crunchy bro science out loud.

However, I do know a lot about the strain of lacto I suggested and let me tell you that it is one serious acid producing mutherfucker. I can easily run an experiment with soil to confirm of deny this but would rather make some sour beer with my lacto.
 
Aqua Man

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Have to remember PH is a measurement of dissolved elements in water. Specifically H+ ions. But the ph potential of the soil is different. Its a makeup of elements that have the potential to influence PH when dissolved. So for long term stability you need to use something that breaks down and dissolves slowly over time…. This is why anything used to adjust PH that is already dissolved in water is extremely temporary
 
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Aqua Man

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I've never actually had to add lacto to any media. So I can't confirm or deny anything. Just doing some crunchy bro science out loud.

However, I do know a lot about the strain of lacto I suggested and let me tell you that it is one serious acid producing mutherfucker. I can easily run an experiment with soil to confirm of deny this but would rather make some sour beer with my lacto.
Yeah bit the tea is loaded with them… Once added to the media the population will decline as food source’s decline also as its leached out so its very temporary
 
Peat_Phreak

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Have to remember PH is a measurement of dissolved elements in water. Specifically H+ ions. But the ph potential of the soil is different. Its a makeup of elements that have the potential to influence PH when dissolved. So for long term stability you need to use something that breaks down and dissolves slowly over time…. This is why anything used to adjust PH that is already dissolved in water is extremely temporary

Read my acid flush thread. It wasn't temporary. I could have used sulfuric acid. Citric worked fine.
 
Peat_Phreak

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Yeah bit the tea is loaded with them… Once added to the media the population will decline as food source’s decline also as its leached out so its very temporary

I don't trust that lacto.
 
Aqua Man

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And since we are on the subject of citric acid and heavy metals, I submit another great reason to use citric acid.

You realize its the reduction in PH that helps not the citric acid. The same can be said for aluminum suphate…. Only the results are more lasting
 
Peat_Phreak

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You realize its the reduction in PH that helps not the citric acid. The same can be said for aluminum suphate…. Only the results are more lasting

It's important to understand that citric acid is a chelator of heavy metals.

Aluminum sulphate is not. Sulfuric acid is not. Phosphoris acid is not.

That is why the scientists chose citric acid for the experiment.

Checkmate!
 
Aqua Man

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It's important to understand that citric acid is a chelator of heavy metals.

Aluminum sulphate is not. Sulfuric acid is not. Phosphoris acid is not.

That is why the scientists chose citric acid for the experiment.

Checkmate!
Think it says pretty clearly it was due to PH and PH will change the forms…. Eg as PH goes down more ammonia is converted into ammonium… ooof thats kinda irrefutable and check mate!
 
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Aqua Man

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Further questions… what form of acid to those bacteria prodice?

you do know citric acid reacts with bicarbonate to form co2 and off gasses extremely fast as a result right?

this is only gonna end one way man. I dont think you understand the chemistry your talking about
 
Peat_Phreak

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I read the study before posting it. The key word is here mainly. That means the chelation effect that has been well known to science for a long time continues to be a real thing.
 
Peat_Phreak

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Further questions… what form of acid to those bacteria prodice?

you do know citric acid reacts with bicarbonate to form co2 and off gasses extremely fast as a result right?

this is only gonna end one way man. I dont think you understand the chemistry your talking about

Says the guy that doesn't know lactobacillus produces lactic acid.
 
Aqua Man

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Iron and other metals all change forms based on the PH… chelation is not all created equal… and bonds differ in strength.
 
Aqua Man

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Says the guy that doesn't know lactobacillus produces lactic acid.
Hey dont start throwing insults now that you’ve shown you have no clue of what you speak. Just because i ask a question doesn’t mean i dont know the answer lol. I asked if you did
 
Peat_Phreak

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you do know citric acid reacts with bicarbonate to form co2 and off gasses extremely fast as a result right?

I know citric acid can be used for my entire grow without having any issues. That is the whole point of growing.
 
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