Black Haze aka Frankie, NYC Haze, The Piff, Church, Uptown Piff or Cuban Black Haze

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Backyard_Boogie

Backyard_Boogie

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This is a really old thread from 12 years ago LOL! 😂 So I am always interested in grabbing unique uncrossed heirloom genetics and this Black strain from Florida seems legit. Would be awesome to get some seeds to hold in my vault however based off of what I read the true FL Black is clone only. Maybe there are people out there that were able to cross the original black clone with a similar male and get something very close to the mom. I would settle for very close at this point cuz you gotta stockpile these old strains in your vault and DON'T CROSS THEM! Everything is getting hybridized over the decades and in 20 years it will all be gone. Fruit is gonna be the only flavor left. If someone out there that has the REAL clone only Black female cut then you can take that female and cross it with a LEGIT old school haze. The idea is to try to go back in time you shouldn't be crossing the female Black clone with a newer strain it should be an Old School haze. This way when you pheno hunt out of hundreds of seeds you have a better shot at finding a magical female. You want to keep it old school cuz the older strains were uncrossed and they will give you the TRUEST expression of a pure haze. Cross the Black clone with one of these Males. The original Santa Cruz Haze this is where it all started in CA back in the late 60's Authentic genetics has them for sale the real deal...


Original Haze​

by Todd McCormick January 16, 2020

Original Haze was first bred in 1969 in the Santa Cruz Mountains by a gentleman named G.
G exchanged seeds with Skunkman Sam who saved the variety and turned the world onto Haze.
I begot the variety directly from Skunkman Sam and they are the original 3 way Colombian Haze that was first bred in 1969 in the Santa Cruz mountains by Sam's neighbor "G". Sam kept them through IBL breeding since the 70's to preserve the variety.
This variety contains no Afghan/Indica, it is unlike most everything in modern day cannabis.
Please note: Original Haze is an amazing variety that is best used for breeding. You will no doubt find some wonderful examples of Haze, but do note that there is a lot of variation in the variety and that is what makes it such a great plant to breed with.

You can read more about Original Haze here:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182

Original Haze grande

Original Haze Leaf 2 large

Original Haze Plant grande
 
growerNshower

growerNshower

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Growing the cuban black haze cut from PCG (by way of piffcoast?) outdoor full term. This will be my first haze grow, though I am familiar with beanstalk Mexican bagseed from the 90s. Any grow tips for her specifically would be eternally appreciated. So far, I noticed she really doesn't like the direct sun or cali heat as a newly transplanted clone...out of all plants I'm hardening off right now, she is the most finicky.
 
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growerNshower

growerNshower

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20220912 190026
CBH exerting her dominance. She's about 11 ft tall and finally starting to stack hairs. I'm a little skeptical about finishing her in norcal Sierra foothills/motherlode, 1400 ft elevation. Farmers almanac says warm/dry this winter for us, so maybe I'll get lucky. Anybody have experience with her outdoors this far from the equator?
 
growerNshower

growerNshower

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Just pulled some CBH (PCG sourced) at around 90 days outdoor at 38-39 deg North in Sierra Foothills between 1200-1600 ft elevation. It has been through a few storms, and some very cold nights (~30-32 F). I don't see any mold or rot. There is no darkening due to cold temps. It is not super frosty, but it is only around 90 days post flower-initiation. I will try to let the rest of the plant go to the New Year (120 days)....we will see.
20221130 CBH
 
boatbum850

boatbum850

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Have 2 pks of Doc D's Cuban Black Haze x (A5 Haze x Mirakel Thai ) in the Seeds FS thread grab 'em quick .
 
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Nydino

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Hey does anyone know where I can get a cut of just straight cuban black haze
 
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Epochalypse

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This is a mad old thread but I figured I’d try and drop some knowledge just in case anyone is interested.

Santa Cruz Original Haze is an F1 cross of three Colombian landrace Sativas. Specifically genuine O Haze seeds are ( Santa Marta Colombian Gold x Chocolate Colombian x Colombian Red). Chocolate Colombian is a phenotype of one of the earliest and most common varieties of high quality cannabis available in the US. It was a Colombian landrace that was nicknamed Wacky Weed & was available over a decade before most other legendary landraces made their way here, as early as the early 1950s - in 1953 it was available in NYC. That’s the year my Pops smoked for the first time and fell in love. He’s certain it was 1953. It earned the rather unfortunate nickname Wacky Weed because it had such a heady, energetic, uplifting, euphoric, giggly, & happy heady high, like nearly all pure tropical / Subtropical Sativas & Sativa dominant hybrids today. And because it was the 1950s and people were so cheesy back then it would make our heads spin iin 2024.

All the original Beat Generation heads smoked it, at least while they were still on the East Coast. Berkeley, CA & San Francisco in general was the most major Beat Generation hub on the West Coast & there were a few more varieties of pure sativas out there before the 1960s. Most of the “legendary” classic strains baby boomers recall fondly with a nostalgic twinkle in their eyes didn’t arrive in the states until the mid 1960s at the earliest, but by 1970 there were dozens from all over the world. Afghani, Pakistani, Iranian, & other Indicas wouldn’t be widely available stateside until the mid 1970s.

Anyway, the O Haze was barely worked properly when it was first bred although it was bred from three properly selected, high quality Colombian Sativas. But because it wasn’t worked or bred properly, its genetics were an crapshoot. This was a huge pain for people since it took 20-24 weeks in flower alone, & the flower had to be harvested, slow dried, trimmed, & cured before a truly proper evaluation of each plant could be made. The best phenotypes of Haze, which were usually called Purple Haze, Green Haze, & Golden Haze, were known as the ‘trinity’ of the best Haze phenos, but they were visually indistinguishable from the majority of O Haze offspring, which were mostly mid to fairly high-grade quality Haze plants that had some of the most sought after traits, but also some of the garbage traits as well. Despite taking 20-24 weeks to flower, only 15%-25% of plants were truly legendary quality. About half would be mid to fairly high grade, but a solid 25%-35% of O Haze offspring would produce total garbage plants. This was extremely frustrating since the best phenotypes, and even many of the decent to fairly high quality phenotypes would be what people were hoping for but it was a total crap shoot. 5-6 months of work flowering O Haze only to end up with a lower end or garbage plant was heartbreaking.

And it’s precisely because of the fact that O Haze had a lot of garbage genetics in its genome, yet was also capable of producing some of the most heavenly herb imaginable, that the Australian born, Amsterdam based expat, Nevil Schoenmakers, founder of the first seedbank, known simply as “The Seedbank,” but which was short for “The Seedbank of Holland,” as well as the first person to ship cannabis seeds in any significant quantity to the US, after advertising The Seedbank in High Times, spent the majority of 1985-1989 properly working the O Haze, in order to breed out the trash genetics and concentrate the most high quality, sought after genetics.

It was c. 1984 that Nevil first met Californian cannabis breeder and seed collector David Paul Watson. Although he’s much more commonly known as "Sam the Skunkman." The Skunkman sold Nevil several seeds representing the best of Californian hybrids available at the time, including several seeds of Original Haze, as well as some other varieties that Sam The Skunkman had worked on himself, including Skunk #1, Early Girl, and California Orange. Because of the inherent limitations of cultivating cannabis in Holland, Nevil, like most other breeders working in Holland, as well as Dutch breeders, grew indoors under the best Metal Halide and Sodium grow lights available at the time.

Nevil had been able to try some of the best Haze phenotypes that Sam The Skunkman had on hand, & immediately realized the potential of the incredibly imperfect genetic treasure chests that each bean of O Haze represented. Which is why producing the best possible worked Haze became his main goal in the years following 1985. After four years of careful selection and breeding work, he finally produced two markedly distinct versions of Haze that each concentrated the best genetics present in the genome of the Origjnal Haze seeds, & had none of the garbage genetics that O Haze seeds also had in abundance: two males he simply called Haze A & Haze C.

Along with Northern Lights & Skunk #1, these two males went on to be the most important plants for the future of cannabis hybrids. In 1989, Nevil was the first to cross what has become known as a holy grail combination, & which would be copied by many breeders for years to come: Northern Lights #5 x his Haze A male.

It was from these first NL5/Haze seeds that a rare phenotype would be found that is without question a holy grail of cannabis and that is the subject matter of this thread: the Haze Hybrid that would go on to be one of the most beloved strains by virtually anyone who’s ever tried it: technically a Green Haze / Golden Haze genetic mashup, with some Hawaiian Sativa and Afghani Indica genes from its NL5 mother - a plant with deep green flowers and an abundance of relatively small trichomes relative to most cannabis varieties, that had an intensely pungent terpene profile - a truly unique stank that no other cannabis plant would ever quite possess outside of selfed seeds and clones of the original plant & direct descendants of that particular plant. A truly legendary plant was born that day. A plant that would go on to be extremely popular up and down the East Coast of the US, basically along the entire I-95 corridor. The plant that would one day be called NYC Uptown Haze, Bronx Golden Haze, Black Haze, Cuban Black Haze, Harlem Haze, The Cough, Church, Frankie (due to its dominant & intense frankincense like odor, over its slightly pine, earth, spice, pepper, & citrus hints, which hovered over its predominant background basement chem stench), and most infamously, The Piff.

S1s of Nevil’s original NL5 x Haze A still exist, and indeed it was one of several of these S1s from which Karma’s infamous A5 Haze would be popped. While clones of the original plant were common in the early to mid 1990s, most cuts of Piff come from S1s or S2s of the original plant. It’s exactly the same plant that dominated both NYC & Southern Florida Connoisseur Cannabis circles, & could also occasionally be found in Atlanta, Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Boston, and Vermont though likely was popular up and down I-95. However, it found its most ardent supporters in Miami and in and around New York City.

The Piff definitely had its prime in the 1990s and early 2000s. I was living in Morningside Heights in Manhattan from 1999-2003 for college before heading to LA, & just by chance, was able to experience some of the best years for cannabis in both cities. Sour Diesel and The Piff were ubiquitous throughout my 4 years in New York. Super Silver Haze, The F2 Blueberry, the cut of DJ Short’s masterpiece that most smelled like Blueberries, White Widow, Silver Pearl, Silver Bubble, Silver Haze, AK-47, Jack Herer, Great White Shark, Strawberry Cough, and Beastere from British Columbia were the most common cultivars I smoked daily while an undergraduate at Columbia. I grew up in DC, where we smoked blunts of Anaerobicly cured, only occasionally green, seeded Mexican Schwag until my junior year of High School, when first we’d get care packages of Kind Bud from my Cousin on the West Coast, but from 1998 could usually find good quality flower grown locally. However, we were never able to score Too Shelf Quality Herb consistently until moving to New York.

I definitely had Piff first in DC, where it was called Cough. We also knew It was NL5/Haze and I would share that information with Piff purveyors in NYC, who only knew it was some kind of Haze. But there was no doubt they were exactly the same plant. That Frankincense and basement chem smell, its unique appearance, & above all, the potent, uniquely euphoric, powerfully energy inducing, uplifting heady sativa high were all identical. Visiting my boy Adam at Miami State in early 2000, second semester of our Freshman Year, I was surprised to find he had the exact same bud. He called it Black Haze & said it was only available in South Florida. I said no, I had it before we even left DC, we have it in New York where most people either call it Bronx Golden Haze or Piff, & it’s NL5/Haze. He said no it’s pure Haze and only Miami has it. But that’s been definitively proven wrong. For some reason though, Miami kids thought it was a homebred strain found nowhere else. But every time I had it back then it was the exact same herb. Grown from clones of S1 seeds of Nevil’s original NL5 x Haze A. I’ve had several other phenos of that same original cross by Nevil and they were all pretty different except for the cut that was called NL5/Haze, which was much more piney and had an even more devastatingly potent high.

There was no Piff out west. But I got to experience OG Kush, Mendocino Purps, Purple Urkle, the original cut of Granddaddy Purple, and then, after 2005, so many OGs it would make your head spin. I was back in NYC for two months in early 2007 to take the NY Bar after passing the Cali Bar the previous July, & The Piff was still around. But on a business trip in 2010, I couldn’t find it anywhere. People were saying it had disappeared without warning.

This wasn’t actually the case however it was definitely hard to find for awhile. But thanks to the Dominicans in Spanish Harlem, Top Dawg, & Piff Coast Farms, several versions of The Piff are once again available. Big up!

The Definitive History of Piff aka Cuban Black Haze aka Northern Lights #5 x Haze A, as experienced by David Epochalypse.

RIP Nevil!
 

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