Blue-ish / Purple-ing of leave tips and downward curling - White Russian - CFL

[mgjscdhl]

I'm sorry to post here again,
I'm definitely having some problems with the gardening side of things. I wish I didn't have to but I can't narrow it down. And one solution asked what ppm was in solution... And well, thats impossible right now. It doesn't appear to be same issue as yellowing but there is curling.

Several of the leaves are curling below. This seems to be top/middle and perhaps lower limbs. It does not seem to be new or old growth but equal between two. Some of the ends are also blue/purple. I've checked for mites or other damage caused by insects, there are no burns, etc.. I've checked all undersides of effected leaves and around stems, flowering sites. The only other growth is white pre-flowering (I beleive) starting at ground level upward and its almost 3/4 of the way to the top of plant.

I \\ THINK \\ it could be phosphorus or phosphate deficiency according to links posted, and online guides. I beleive its not a lockout, roots issue or heat/watering...
There is some blue/purple "blotches" on the outside edges of old leaves (spreading outward), some tips of leaves and now some newer ones. I've found two or 3 with minor discoloration ontop and one halfway down that is kind of bad. The top leaves are fairly new. The newest are clean but are SMALL (2mm) so I don't know if they'll change color or be effected.

The temperature and r/h has stayed relatively same. Although she dropped below 70F once during night cycle and over 80F another night. The discoloration was there before hand. These are not all the topmost leaves either but for the record the plant has been lowered to keep 3" away from lamps. 4 days ago I watered with well water, ph'd to 6.0. The roots themselves do not appear rootbound but she does need a transplant soon.

Here is my best example of my girl in her current state + one closeup of the leaf, under and top side. I hope it helps and its clear enough to show my girl.

 

[l0g1c4l]

Hey man...there are quite a few reasons why leaves turn purple, but in your case my first guess would be over feeding...I suggest you let them dry out a bit and give them a good flush.

Good luck

 

[mgjscdhl]

I'd like to ask a stupid question then if I can? I've been using guides online and some videos I downloaded and the basic schedule/amount I've seen was a cup of water at the 3rd week of vegetative and make sure the pot was less than 1/2 as heavy as full watering. Which, for me, is about a week between feedings. I've also waited for fertilizer every third watering give or take. Am I fudging it all up with this amount? The pot is only a 1gal right now and using cfl so are these amounts I'm using for hps or leds. Is there a set amount someone can suggest? because what I've been doing is waiting for the soil to be dry and the pot to be about 1/4 (which is kind of hard to tell on that size pot) and waiting another day or two figuring I'm probably babying her too much and she needs and extra day or so. Also keeping track of yellowing or drooping as a sign that she needs water.

I'd appreciate any help. If someone needs more information from me I'd be more than happy to give it.

 

[blahman]

How much are you feeding them? definitely looks like lockout to me with those dark purple stems. Lockout will keep nutrients from reaching leaves causing them to be deficient. So they look exactly like the textbook deficiencies because they are.

Quickest way I've found to bring something you've locked up around is with a flushing solution.

 

[Seamaiden]

They look overwatered and overfed, I agree with the Canadian up there with the name I can't spell.

Growing with artificial light leaves some problems, not the least of which is that they may not have enough of the drivetrain (push, i.e. light) to utilize the nutes you're giving them. Growing with fluoros can be even more tricky because they have even less push compared to HID lighting. If you can get more light going, or even better, get stronger lighting, I wouldn't be surprised if you see some of these issues resolve themselves.

But the leaf curl downward like that is most often an overfeeding situation, easily remedied by backing off.

All of that said, you've left out a little information. What medium are they being grown in? How many lights and of what wattage are you using over them? They actually look a wee bit light on the green side, so I'm curious how much nitrogen they're getting.

Last thing to remember is that often deficiencies look like lock-outs, and there are many reasons for a given nutrient or group of nutrients to either become imbalanced or be locked out. Be careful throwing things at the problem trying to resolve it without being certain the basics are covered.

 

[mgjscdhl]

feeding is roughly a cup per week. That is, after she is showing signs of thirsty, withering or yellowing.... Then I wait a day or so because I am probably hovering and over anxious.
She still gets the 10-20% runoff as stated by many videos/books.

I had flushed earlier for another problem. I think the main culprit is soil or water. But I'm not saying I didn't or can't puck up.

The only stronger method available to me without alot of extra $$$$ is guerilla. Which probably has its own pitfalls. And I'm not entirely sure its warm enough at this part of the world. I'm looking into that but I'm not sure where to start on day/night cycle and water sources.

Speaking of.... Medium: its only a peat moss / perlite mix (about 40% perlite). It probably wasn't great but a bit too late to change now. All CFL with 180w 6500K 5x total.

I am trying to get her stabilized by simple feeding until I get a clearer picture what is it. My ideas are to use distilled water or r/o with calmag (or epsom salts/molasses) and see if she's good enough for re-potting. No, she's not rootbound... But she needs it very soon. So now is probably better than later. All fertilizers are organic (general organic Thrive [vegan plant food] grow/bloom)

My 3 ideas are phosphorus, phosphate or maganese defficiency... Just by online literature...

For those counting:

2 months, 1 day since cutting
27 days since I flushed for first time
44 days since I transplanted.

 

[nog]

looks like phosphate defficiency maybe caused by over watering i would agree with blahman,seamaiden and mg....

 

[blahman]

feeding is roughly a cup per week. That is, after she is showing signs of thirsty, withering or yellowing.... Then I wait a day or so because I am probably hovering and over anxious.

Correct me if i'm wrong but your waiting until the plant wilts or yellows before watering?? When the plant wilts from lack of water your damaging roots.

You have to consider the time it will take for these to recover. I would say at least a month, so if your time pressed for some smoke start over. I've waited it out a a number of times years ago when I was just starting for the learning curve. Now if I screw things up, I don't wait. I toss and start over.

 

[mgjscdhl]

well. I just mean she typically shows drooping but the soil is typically NOT dry or weight is not quite as light as it should. Thats not to say I couldn't still mess it up, but I'm trying to find a balance.

I have considered that. She's definitely taking alot of time recovering. I think it started out bad with tap water and my soil. What I've thought about doing is not cutting her but starting a new pot/seedling, but the problem is I don't have space to provide flowering and vegetative spot if they aren't in sync.

 

[KushMaster707]

i have some plants that look like this right now due to neglect and the other day i gave it a full feeding with sensi grow + additives at 700 ppm and the leaves are already returning to their lush green color.

 

[mgjscdhl]

unfortunately I'm neither too knowledgeable in tds/ec meters or currently have one.
I had a little mishap with a meter someone had sent to me, it ended up not being so "waterproof" and the instrumentation had gotten waterlogged or corroded from the batteries. I should probably look on ebay for a used or cheaper one..

 

[l0g1c4l]

you can get a ppm meter on e___bay for around 20 bucks delivered...sure its made in china, but its better than guessing.

 

[Seamaiden]

PureWaterClub dot com sells a truncheon meter for something like $18. Shoulda gotten one when I ordered my RO/DI system.

 

[mgjscdhl]

good link. Also nice place to read up on r/o systems. (Looking into one when more $$) not only for the plant but i don't peticularly like our water's taste. Nor with a brita, etc...
I need to look up some information myself. But thought I'd ask for little help.

Are there any differences, or a better meter for organic vs. chemical? (I'm using organic)
What basic range should a soil grower be at, like for eg. organic fert, distilled water?

I do have a fundamental understanding of what it means but if someone could shorten my search for info I'd really appreciate it. I need to find a complete idiots/newbies guide to tds meters lol

 

[Kpezzy]

Correct me if i'm wrong but your waiting until the plant wilts or yellows before watering?? When the plant wilts from lack of water your damaging roots.

You have to consider the time it will take for these to recover. I would say at least a month, so if your time pressed for some smoke start over. I've waited it out a a number of times years ago when I was just starting for the learning curve. Now if I screw things up, I don't wait. I toss and start over.

dude really? throw out the plant that's your advice?

 

[mgjscdhl]

its ok. I know I screwed up a bit with her, but its my first grow.
a great yeild isn't as important to me as experience. If I don't flower her I lose that experience and weed is a hardy plant too.

I may start an ak48 (feminized seed) when i get home. I have a prop tray and everything but some t5/flore to start that.

 

[Swagnum grow-op]

i agree with logical seems like too much nitrogen and needs a good flush

 

[mgjscdhl]

I was using tap water BUT she started to perk up after I used distilled /w blackstrap molasses as a calcium/magnesium suppliment. I have to try and find hygrozyme and see what price is around here. I don't have source of r/o, the systems are too expensive right now. The only other bottled water i see here are distilled or "spring" water. If it helps, the lowest ppm I found was 350ppm (by label. Again I need a meter)

I am currently using another nutrient but I think she's pretty stable at 1/4 dose. I don't have a meter for that yet. I may have found one locally for around $20. Hopefully something like that will do for now.

Going to try giving her slightly less water and trying to see if she's light enough in a couple days like you suggested. I usually tried after 10-20% runoff so I will see how it goes and report back

 

[Seamaiden]

MG, I got a complete 6-stage RO/DI system from PureWaterClub.com, with an additional permeate pump for less than $200 delivered. They have RO systems for as little as $99.

If you're in soil I would not try for run-off the way people do with coco and other soilless media. That alone can leave a soil gal completely waterlogged and drenched and they're like cats when it comes to getting too wet.

 

[mgjscdhl]

Best way I can describe it is this. I know there's a fine line between doing it right, doing it over and being cheap... And I've crossed the cheap threshold more than once. But I can't justify a r/o system just yet - but maybee after I use distilled for a bit and she shows improvement. The way I look at it is I can pretty much recycle or re-use a good portion of my materials. eg. electrical cord: turned into extension cords, cfl: can be used around home, fans: pc fans... nuff said, ferts: garden......

One system, with shipping, is still $100 less than locally though!

good analogy and lol (I'm a cat person). She could be getting too much at a time. What would you suggest? What I normally do is give her enough for some runoff, and water, water, fert. It gives her about a week between water/fert.