Bubbles... Bubbles... Such a thing a too much?

427
0
Is there such a thing as too much bubbles?

Spent the last couple hours reading up on DO and can't find anything tha implies you can have too many bubbles?
 

JACKMAYOFFER

Playing with Fire Son...
Supporter
938
263
Im rocking 1 regan blower and a Hi Blow 200 in my vert room as long as you have a chiller to cool the water you are good to go...JACK
 
1,091
83
The Do, Do, Do, and the Da Da Da's

There is a point that minerals could potentially precipitate out of solution.....this in turn tends to destabalize the pH. Its not so much a matter of the DO being too high as the agitation that typically occurs when aerating via airstones/diffusers or surface dispersion causes certain minerals to fall out.

Excessive turbulance can cause breakage of tiny root hairs adding debris to the solution, potentially feeding pathogens.

You'd likely have to drop the water temps below 65F to get the DO much higher than 9-10 ppm's which could start slowing plant growth as metabolism slows.
 
427
0
I'll be calling UC Monday, but I'm dumbfounded at the speed which these girls took a turn for the death!

My environment:
50% humidity
77 - Air Temp
SOLID 67-68 water temp
PH in UC 5.8 right now, fluctuates up to 6.1
PH un feed rez: 5.8
PPM in UC: 440
PPM in feed res: 500
Nutes, Canna A+B (recently changed to bloom), Rhizotonic 1/2 strength, Cannazym 1/2 strentgh, SM-90, Zone 1/4 strength.

Basically they were fine and withing 12 hours drooped REALLY bad. We took one plant out a few days ago, she was the only one that did not recover from transplant shock (sunshine 4 --> UC). A couple days ago, another one took went from normal looking to droopy to yellow leaves with HARD stems in about 24 hours.

Decided to change some things about 12 hours ago and added a second air pump. My stock UC came with 2 pumps to be distributed throughout the system. A second AP-100 was added and now each AP-100 runs 7 buckets each. -- I was concerned from the beginning that I did not have enough air. Still not sure this is the issue, especially considering what some have done with the stock system.

The roots are white with no negative signs, kind of a PITA to get pics.

Less then 2 weeks into the flip. Blinked on 12/7.

Here was they look like now:

DSC02325.JPG


On this pic you can see the really sick plant in the middle to the left. You can also see the gaping whole in the net on the right side towards the center and again towards the rear where the two removed plants used to live.
DSC02331.JPG


Here you can see they are not all affected.
DSC02339.JPG


I'm dumb founded. There is not enough RO in our fill tank for a complete flush right now, so the nute rez will get filled with hose water, PH'd and then the UC will get emptied. The UC will then get filled with this PH'd hose water for an attempted flush.

Any other ideas? Why the sudden turn to death? I'm sooooo lost.
 
272
0
I am not really experienced with these kinds of plants or the UC to comment, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Is it a different strain? It looks to me like over-watering. I would give it time and stop changing the environment it is already stressed enough. If the roots look fine give it some time. Plants are incredibly resilient and can bounce back quickly. Did you drop the water level 50% when you went to flower?

Are you using any foliar sprays? I would be spraying it with neem oil and a seaweed/kelp extract. They both contain hormones and resistances that plants can use to fight diseases. Saltwater kelp is a super plant virtually immune to all known plant diseases.
 
427
0
All comments welcome!

I am not really experienced with these kinds of plants or the UC to comment, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Is it a different strain?
14 different strains in the system, specifically to see which does best in the UC, but dumbfounded that several turned soooo bad soooo quickly.


It looks to me like over-watering. I would give it time and stop changing the environment it is already stressed enough. If the roots look fine give it some time. Plants are incredibly resilient and can bounce back quickly. Did you drop the water level 50% when you went to flower?
The water level was only slightly dropped to the bottom of the net after the roots too place. The water level was about half way until that time.

Are you using any foliar sprays?
Foiliar fed with Nitrozime and liquid light/saturator through Veg. Once a week and flipped between the two.

I would be spraying it with neem oil and a seaweed/kelp extract. They both contain hormones and resistances that plants can use to fight diseases. Saltwater kelp is a super plant virtually immune to all known plant diseases.
I should note that these had two spotted mites. Not a horrible infestation, but enough to stress the plant. All mites are gone after a round of forbid 4f, avid, floramite 4 days apart through an automizer. Since flower I have not sprayed since I planed on introducing predator mites soon to ensure no bugs at the end.

*EDIT*
I should add that details to the grow are here:
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f158/uc-16buckets-13gal-trailer-10-000-watts-6-tons-jack-inspired-26666/
 
1,738
163
I had a smaller pump going in my veg UC and my plants grew slow and were having all sorts of weird shit going on. Now I hooked another pump and everything cherry again.
I dont think thats why there drooping Im kinda dumb founded on that
BG
 
Did the roots on the one u removed look brown and dingy or smell like a pond?
Those look like my boys did. One looked like that drooping one he pulled it out and by 4 days later the last 5 were dying. He didn't run zone and i think that alloweed a lil root rot to take hold. Try pulling out everything put ur primary nutes and running zone at about .5 ml per gallon. Roots excel. also helps combat root rot if you have some.

and over oxygenation can lead to seperation in your nutrients. They breakdown and certain mineral elements become unavailable to the plants.

your temps and ppm look good there has to be contamination from older equipment that ur using or if using all new equipment there is always a chance of bad bacteria being in root products like micoriza innoculants. Thats why humboldt nutes has white widow a bacteria free endo and ecto micorz. mix.

hope any of this will be helpful
 
144
18
for what it's worth I've had the same transplant shock and the biggest thing that helped is DROPPING THE WATER LEVEL below the 'step'. Just like you my roots looked fab' but everything drooped. All my parameters were spot on...nutes perfect etc..plus I'm runnin' ZONE, 2 addtional air pumps and 1200 gph circulation pumps in a 40".

I finally just realized looking at the leaf pattern' they were being ' semi drowned ' by the water level. Dropping the water level appx 3" (or more )seem to make them breath better...air to upper breather roots...and within a day or two stuff took off. I've keep the level there the entire time. Cool since it saves me water, nutes and time refilling

I also agree with UCme' about too about extreme DO/turbulence, nutes and precipitating minerals. I don't think it's wise to add sooo much action and 'forget about it'.
 
and over oxygenation can lead to seperation in your nutrients. They breakdown and certain mineral elements become unavailable to the plants.
Its not necessarily the dissolved oxygen that causes fall out (fall out is when your nutrients revert back to being a solid from a dissolved solid). It is the over agitation of the nutrient solution that what will possibly cause fall out. bd
 
427
0
Thank you for all the comments guys.

Did the roots on the one u removed look brown and dingy or smell like a pond?
Nope. No signs of rot. Good white roots on every plant.

your temps and ppm look good there has to be contamination from older equipment that ur using or if using all new equipment there is always a chance of bad bacteria being in root products like micoriza innoculants.
I do not believe so, everything was cleaned prior to use.


for what it's worth I've had the same transplant shock and the biggest thing that helped is DROPPING THE WATER LEVEL below the 'step'. Just like you my roots looked fab' but everything drooped. All my parameters were spot on...nutes perfect etc..plus I'm runnin' ZONE, 2 addtional air pumps and 1200 gph circulation pumps in a 40".
I don't think I have a problem with sterility. Dropping the water level sounds logical and a possible next step.

I finally just realized looking at the leaf pattern' they were being ' semi drowned ' by the water level. Dropping the water level appx 3" (or more )seem to make them breath better...air to upper breather roots...and within a day or two stuff took off. I've keep the level there the entire time. Cool since it saves me water, nutes and time refilling
Agreed, they look more like over watered then anything else.

I also agree with UCme' about too about extreme DO/turbulence, nutes and precipitating minerals. I don't think it's wise to add sooo much action and 'forget about it'.
So, the second AP-100 is in, but a single air stone in each bucket remains. The duty was simply split, with one side managed by one pump and the other side with the other.
If I start seeing a nute deficiency, I'll let everyone know. Last night clean water went in as a flush, just in case. But I plan on leaving the air pumps in once this droop is figured out.
 
427
0
First two pics of the sickest plants.
DSC02342.JPG


DSC02344.JPG




Here are a few showing that now all plants in the UC look sick. WTF!
DSC02343.JPG


DSC02348.JPG


DSC02341.JPG


DSC02345.JPG



Still running straight water through the system. Lowered the water level about 16 hours ago. Nutes should go back in in about another 12 hours. If they don't bounce back I'll wait till they are dead and pull 'em. This F'n sucks!
 
427
0
Just to keep the thread complete for those of use that use the search button...

Some of these are coming back.
The changes were:
Added the second pump.
Flushed for 36 hours
lowered the water level to the bottom of the net pots.
Changed nute schedule to use only A+B (and 150 PPM's of CalMAG)

You'll see some branches show new growth and the leaves on some are coming back.

And on my previous post I meant to say that NOT all the plants were affected in the UC.

DSC02361.JPG


See how the new growth is starting to look good? The roots look fine as well.
DSC02360.JPG


The rest of the UC is looking fine!
DSC02355.JPG


DSC02357.JPG
 
Top