Bud rot?

[Judaz]

Lol. You havent “fixed” anything. You are as bad as the tobacco virus panicking noobs with this mutation crap.

You can water and nute stress a young plant into a lot of problems. Add some lst and topping during the stress. Now a transplant, now a flush, etc.

None of the other plants look anything like your old clone. And others are not having your issue.

Of course I know you can stress a small plant but lately many problems are arising from viroids which can create secondary nute problema. But if you notice the branching patterns on those other plants. That’s why I’m saying that.

What do you mean that none of the other plants look like your old clone? I’m referring to the branching horizontal growth pattern that I’m starting to notice more and more on a lot of new issues. Never saw that back in the day just the nute lock or deficiency, fungi, bacteria damage.

 

[Judaz]

So have you determined it not to be a bud worm problem. I just grew a sticky plant like this over the summer and had the worms get pieces of the buds just like that. I protected it with neem oil saved most my buds but a few got affected. I just don’t see mold or bud rot. At first the dead Brown pieces of the bud look like that and over time as they dry out and dehydrate you’ll be able to just pinch that piece and pull it out. So to me it seems like you are at that stage. Wait a few days and that brown piece will come right out. Aside from those bad pieces and the dead leaves your buds look alright. Still smokeable what’s left

 

[Aqua Man]

I’m assuming you growing this outdoors. This is not mold or anything to that degree. Look at the rest of the bud looks normal and you don’t see the mold in it. Only parts of a bud are damaged which lead me to suspect there is only one creature that will damage buds like that. I’m surprised no one got this diagnosis. The tell tell signs are an outdoor grow. What’s the issue. Bud worms. When only parts of buds turn brown outdoors and the rest of the bud looks healthy it’s not a mold. Especially when the grower is not making any over watering or stagnant water claims. Where are the real growers on these threads with experience. 6 misdiagnoses today I fixed. 5 viroid and 1 bud worm problem. Been growing for 20+ years I’ve seen it all. Nobody seems to know anything these days but to blame everything on nutes or mold.

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And according to you

Of course I know you can stress a small plant but lately many problems are arising from viroids which can create secondary nute problema. But if you notice the branching patterns on those other plants. That’s why I’m saying that.

What do you mean that none of the other plants look like your old clone? I’m referring to the branching horizontal growth pattern that I’m starting to notice more and more on a lot of new issues. Never saw that back in the day just the nute lock or deficiency, fungi, bacteria damage.

Trying to Stay civil here but your sounding like a propaganda machine... I also agree insulting the people on this forum is well about as shitty as your ability to diagnose plants. You have not helped a single person by loosely handing out the same imo unfounded diagnosis to every question on plant health.

I'm just gonna stop here before I lose my Canadian citizenship for not being nice.

 

[Judaz]

And according to you

Trying to Stay civil here but your sounding like a propaganda machine... I also agree insulting the people on this forum is well about as shitty as your ability to diagnose plants. You have not helped a single person by loosely handing out the same imo unfounded diagnosis to every question on plant health.

I'm just gonna stop here before I lose my Canadian citizenship for not being nice.

So what makes you think it’s not a bud worm problem.? That’s what I’m curios to know? You can clearly see he has the plant outdoors and him mentioning the rain getting to it. I’m not saying anything about viroids here. I’m talking to someone who is asking me about the posts on another thread.

You can clearly see the local damage to part of the bud and the rest of bud looks fine. Seeing the dead leaves is normal for this stage, being close to finish and wear and tear from weather and deficiencies.

 

[Judaz]

Once again. I’ll say it again. Most plants are proving these days to contain viruses or viroids. You can have a plant that has a virus, look normal be completely fine and do well if it’s kept in healthy conditions. It’s when it’s immune system is compromised that you see mutations develop. Which leads to nutrient deficiencies, twisted leaves, branching patterns off (mutants), more susceptible to pests and diseases. All of this creates a weaker plant that is now more susceptible to other secondary causes. I don’t see this here with the supposedly bud rot issue. But I suspect bud worm damage. Can anyone make a claim for why it may not be bud worm damage? @Aqua Man

 

[Aqua Man]

So what makes you think it’s not a bud worm problem.? That’s what I’m curios to know? You can clearly see he has the plant outdoors and him mentioning the rain getting to it. I’m not saying anything about viroids here. I’m talking to someone who is asking me about the posts on another thread.

You can clearly see the local damage to part of the bud and the rest of bud looks fine

I'm not saying its one thing or another. I'm say in all of your posts you are loosely giving out the same diagnosis that is imo highly unlikely and then bashing the forum saying you can't believe nobody is catching this and saying where are the real growers at then claiming you fixed 5 viroid issues in one day.

What a fucking load of shit buddy. I honestly hope ppl can see through this crap and ignore the info. You come to the forum copy/paste a bunch of info. Then start going into threads and without any credible reason or information that would indicate you are diagnosing everything as viroid related.

So yes you are as in every single thread you post in talking once again about viroid. I'm posting here because it's on of the many threads you posted in.

 

[Judaz]

I'm not saying its one thing or another. I'm say in all of your posts you are loosely giving out the same diagnosis that is imo highly unlikely and then bashing the forum saying you can't believe nobody is catching this and saying where are the real growers at then claiming you fixed 5 viroid issues in one day.

What a fucking load of shit buddy. I honestly hope ppl can see through this crap and ignore the info. You come to the forum copy/paste a bunch of info. Then start going into threads and without any credible reason or information that would indicate you are diagnosing everything as viroid related.

So yes you are as in every single thread you post in talking once again about viroid. I'm posting here because it's on of the many threads you posted in.

Ok you make a point about me being a bit loose on the issue. But it’s not highly and unlikely that most of the plants that have issues may contain a viroid problem as the essence. If they are showing classic symptoms of viroid issues as well. If the horizontal branching patterns were absent, and the deformed leaves and discoloration were absent we can rule out pathogens but when you see both and also nutrient deficiencies and or toxicity then you can’t rule out the viroid problem as the probable root cause to the secondary problems, the obvious ones we all are seeing.

You can correct the secondary issues and be ok and having a viroid is not the end of the world either. You can manage it. So I’m just trying to make people aware on how serious this matter has become today. It’s only gonna get worse. If you study commercial agriculture of other crops. Viroids are at the top of the list for being the essence of all problems and are of major concern due to how fast they spread and can wipe you out. And cannabis is heading in the same direction.

Same with humans. Viral epidemics are a huge problem that can spread and wipe out millions of people within months. We all must be aware of what’s happening today with cannabis

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok you make a point about me being a bit loose on the issue. But it’s not highly and unlikely that most of the plants that have issues may contain a viroid problem as the essence. If they are showing classic symptoms of viroid issues as well. If the horizontal branching patterns were absent, and the deformed leaves and discoloration were absent we can rule out pathogens but when you see both and also nutrient deficiencies and or toxicity then you can’t rule out the viroid problem as the probable root cause to the secondary problems, the obvious ones we all are seeing.

And just what do you propose to fix it? And your are not posting that it's possible... You are telling people that's thier plants are mutants and have a virus... Not it could be an issue just out and out it is the issue. I consider that to be very irresponsible.

 

[chemistry]

Two different buds on same plant. One close up

Bud Rot, just had it my self. Cut off the rot and burn it, keep the rest of the bud as dry and open as you can, and you should be ok, but if you leave it for a week your doomed, because in the right conditions it can devastate your whole crop.

 

[Judaz]

And just what do you propose to fix it? And your are not posting that it's possible... You are telling people that's thier plants are mutants and have a virus... Not it could be an issue just out and out it is the issue. I consider that to be very irresponsible.

There is no solution to eliminate viruses unless you do tissue culture cloning with a mix of cold / hot treatments. In other words you must sent it to a professional lab and it will cost thousands of dollars.

What I propose is keeping a sterile and healthy environment. Especially in the veg. Where moms and veg plants sit. This is the most important place to safeguard your genetics and plants going into flower. It is also the place where you can control and eliminate problems going into flower room. Most of the time once the problem is in the flower room. All you can do is control it and knock it far enough back so buds don’t get too affected.

What I propose:

1) sterilization of propagation equipment
2) sealed indoor veg environments where you can control every aspect of the room as best as possible
3) eliminate bugs and pest in veg phase.
4) keep plants healthy. By feeding them right and providing everything they need so they can have strong immune systems.
5) work on the root systems
6)Beneficial bacteria
7) bottom line try to make them as stress free as possible and viroids will never be an issue because they can’t reproduce and take over plants.

 

[Judaz]

Bud Rot, just had it my self. Cut off the rot and burn it, keep the rest of the bud as dry and open as you can, and you should be ok, but if you leave it for a week your doomed, because in the right conditions it can devastate your whole crop.

Well if the majority consensus claims bud rot then thats what it is. I didn’t see the mold in it but could be the case. I had a similar looking issue and it was bud worms. Outdoor is not my forte as indoors is. That’s how problems are solved in these forums, but speculating other similar symptoms is great to eliminate those possibilities

 

[Aqua Man]

There is no solution to eliminate viruses unless you do tissue culture cloning with a mix of cold / hot treatments. In other words you must sent it to a professional lab and it will cost thousands of dollars.

What I propose is keeping a sterile and healthy environment. Especially in the veg. Where moms and veg plants sit. This is the most important place to safeguard your genetics and plants going into flower. It is also the place where you can control and eliminate problems going into flower room. Most of the time once the problem is in the flower room. All you can do is control it and knock it far enough back so buds don’t get too affected.

What I propose:

1) sterilization of propagation equipment
2) sealed indoor veg environments where you can control every aspect of the room as best as possible
3) eliminate bugs and pest in veg phase.
4) keep plants healthy. By feeding them right and providing everything they need so they can have strong immune systems.
5) work on the root systems
6)Beneficial bacteria
7) bottom line try to make them as stress free as possible and viroids will never be an issue because they can’t reproduce and take over plants.

I agree as would any grower that keeping an ideal environment is key. But simply put you cannot just apply this to every symptom that a plant can express. It's just not the case as many of us have seen with the tobacco mosaic disease (what you posted in another thread) hysteria. I have heard of one case apparently being validated ever. And I didn't get to see the data produced by the lab.

As is in life almost 99% of the time the simplest explanation is almost always the right explanation. Yet you come on here and identify 5 different grows with this and claimed to have fixed them somehow???

It's doesn't make even the slightest sense.

 

[chemistry]

Well if the majority consensus claims bud rot then thats what it is. I didn’t see the mold in it but could be the case. I had a similar looking issue and it was bud worms. Outdoor is not my forte as indoors is. That’s how problems are solved in these forums, but speculating other similar symptoms is great to eliminate those possibilities

In my limited experience, and I'd like it to remain limited, is by the time you see it, your bud is already gone, it flourishes from the inside out.

 

[Judaz]

I agree as would any grower that keeping an ideal environment is key. But simply put you cannot just apply this to every symptom that a plant can express. It's just not the case as many of us have seen with the tobacco mosaic disease (what you posted in another thread) hysteria. I have heard of one case apparently being validated ever. And I didn't get to see the data produced by the lab.

As is in life almost 99% of the time the simplest explanation is almost always the right explanation. Yet you come on here and identify 5 different grows with this and claimed to have fixed them somehow???

It's doesn't make even the slightest sense.

Not fixed them but diagnosed the essence of the superficial problems. From my experience most cannabis symptoms are pretty intuitive and not quite complex to point out. But the ones where you got people going back and forth scratching their heads, debating the problems as wether is nute or pathogen related seem to point towards the unknown. The stuff that does not have a lot of research on. When I look for nutrient deficiencies I don’t expect to see odd deformities in plants as well. When you have weird deformities coupled with nutrient deficiencies, then one can probably point the finger towards the viroid being the root of the problem that is creating the nutrient deficiencies because the plants npk requirements have now changed as it has mutated to a different pheno with different environmental and nutrient needs.

As seems to be the case in many new grows these days. First few rounds start great. The cloning seems to go fine and all of a sudden you start to see a combination of nutrient deficiencies, bugs, mold and pest attacks happening more due to weak clones from weak unhealthy mothers affected by viroids. Then people say generic drift. It’s the mites, the mold the nutrient deficiencies etc. When issues are isolated as just one thing and all other probable causes can be safely eliminated then you have your classic symptoms of deficiencies, toxicity or pest problem. But when we dip into the twilight zone and you have a combination of a bunch of issues working together and that have came about over time. It’s time to look at the possibility of overall strain health (mothers and next generation clones) and their chances of containing a possible viroid as the underlying cause to all the other secondary problems

 

[chemistry]

I'll tell you what causes bad plants, bad cuttings, which in turn creates bad plants. Nobody likes to chop off top cola for cuttings, so lesser plants are grown from these lesser cuttings, and I don't believe a lesser cutting will grow to be as proud as it's predecessor. If you look at some grow logs, you can see the best plants grow from good strong cuttings, or seeds. Most folk that grow for their own consumption (myself included) take cuttings from the plants they are about to flower, so leave the best shoots to flower. So every now and then I'm forced to swap genetics.

 

[Judaz]

I'll tell you what causes bad plants, bad cuttings, which in turn creates bad plants. Nobody likes to chop off top cola for cuttings, so lesser plants are grown from these lesser cuttings, and I don't believe a lesser cutting will grow to be as proud as it's predecessor. If you look at some grow logs, you can see the best plants grow from good strong cuttings, or seeds. Most folk that grow for their own consumption (myself included) take cuttings from the plants they are about to flower, so leave the best shoots to flower. So every now and then I'm forced to swap genetics.

I agree I do the same... I've got a lot of research on this topic and reasons why to take tops of main stem to get post clones with least possibility of mutations. https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/s...nerations-of-clones.35430/page-5#post-2313099

 

[MIMedGrower]

Of course I know you can stress a small plant but lately many problems are arising from viroids which can create secondary nute problema. But if you notice the branching patterns on those other plants. That’s why I’m saying that.

What do you mean that none of the other plants look like your old clone? I’m referring to the branching horizontal growth pattern that I’m starting to notice more and more on a lot of new issues. Never saw that back in the day just the nute lock or deficiency, fungi, bacteria damage.

Wasnt it you that has the og cutting that has changed over the years?


On the forums there is always only one person that sees “the truth” over everyone else who doesn't know. Like a conspiracy theorist they are always wrong. There are too many people growing for you to discover something and no one else.

And no one agrees with your synopsis on any comment you made in many theeads last night.

And you were immedietely insulting about it which usually means the person has doubts about themselves.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Once again. I’ll say it again. Most plants are proving these days to contain viruses or viroids. You can have a plant that has a virus, look normal be completely fine and do well if it’s kept in healthy conditions. It’s when it’s immune system is compromised that you see mutations develop. Which leads to nutrient deficiencies, twisted leaves, branching patterns off (mutants), more susceptible to pests and diseases. All of this creates a weaker plant that is now more susceptible to other secondary causes. I don’t see this here with the supposedly bud rot issue. But I suspect bud worm damage. Can anyone make a claim for why it may not be bud worm damage? @Aqua Man

If most plants have this a lot more growers than you would be posting about it.

 

[Judaz]

If most plants have this a lot more growers than you would be posting about it.

What you guys are not understanding is that symptoms are asymptomatic. They don’t show up. Most growers don’t know they have viroids because they don’t know what to look for and are misdiagnosing. Just this year the hop latent viroid was linked to dudding. Everyone just takes them for runts. I was doing the same. Just tossing it. Nobody gonna be posting about that unless the problem gets much worse. And that we are seeing due to the industry commercializing and trading and sells
Of clones and seeds.. It’s a strange new phenomena that no one really knows much about in cannabis because the vectors weren’t there before to make this a big deal. But a big problem for commercial growers of other food crops. Where u guys from I’m from California where the problem is big here. If you are a home grower that never buys clones you are prob fine. But if you are not and you are exchanging and constantly bringing in new stuff most likely you already have viroids and it’s a matter of time usually 2-3 years before the conditions are right for them to take over and start dudding plants.

Research is showing that genetic mutations can be attributed to specific branches in a plant where more somatic mutations are stored. The apex branch is the most stable. We are close to discovering that plants may really have a germline like trees. That’s why you can get a dud from a specific branch. Usually the lower branches are the worst. And top branches have the least amount of stored somatic mutations in them.

The older the clone the more stored somatic mutations it has and the highest tendency to dud from epigenetics. There is no such thing as genetic drift when it comes to plants. It’s all stored somatic mutations in their system. Just like trees. Just this year this info is starting to surface among the scientific community

Watch this video then say something to me. It’s a problem among commercial growers just like the food crops. Corn, hop, strawberries etc. it’s not
Affecting home growers as much. So I’m just warning you guys

 

[Judaz]

A paper published in August this year. To avoid passing on new mutations to offspring, plants seem to minimize the number of divisions by the stem cells that make flowers and seeds.. That’s why cloning the healthiest tops from plants is your best protection against duds

Most of you guys are home growers you are not commercial growers like me. I’m usually not around here posting but I came back to THC farmer for this issue. All the commercial growers. In ca are getting hit with this. Especially greenhouses up north.

Unexpected 'Germline' Plant Cells May Shield New Generations | Quanta Magazine

To avoid passing on new mutations to offspring, plants seem to minimize the number of divisions by the stem cells that make flowers and seeds.

www.quantamagazine.org