Can Hydro-Fungicide cause low pH?

[OutLander]

Hey everyone,

I'm working on a 10 x 13xxl system right now and am working out the kinks as I learn the system and try to not screw things up. Believe me, the biggest problem with the UC system seems to be ME doing things wrong. I won't get into the details, but needless to say, I'd rather post my second one rather than this first one. I've already figured out how to do things much better on the next one.

I'm using H&G and am in veg right now. The only stuff in the system right now is A&B, Cal Mag and Roots Excel. The rez is holding at a steady 5.8 and dumps in via the ball float valve.

So, I found out I was letting some light into the system where I shouldn't have. It has caused some growth of bad crap to occur in the buckets, but not too bad. I got my hands on some Hydro-Fungicide as I've read on other threads and added the recommended 30mL per 100L.

So here's my question - up til now the pH has been rock solid as you would think with a UC system. But now, within 36 hours of adding the HF, the pH is dropping consistently and I can't keep it up. I usually keep it around 5.8. I came in the other day and it had dropped to 5.0. I've been adding pH up to try to keep it around 5.8, but I'm having to keep adding more to maintain it.

Does Hydro-Fungicide cause an acidic byproduct as it kills the growth created with the light leaks? If it means anything, the HF has been in the system for between 3 and 4 days now.

Thanks, and I gotta give thanks and props to Jack, who has inspired everything about what I'm working on.

 

[TrichromeFan]

I have used the hydro fungicide a bit. I have used it at 2-4pm per
gallon. I have never noticed any impact on ph. My system is a different type of
RDWC, with 140 gallons in circulation. That shouldn't make that much of a difference for comparison on the PH. I adjust my PH when I mix my nutes to 5.8, and it slowly rises, to maybe 6.3 by the time I change the rez.

Truthfully, based on what I have seen, I would say go with the zone for the UC. I have never used it, but there are some great UC farmers on here who swear by it. It looks like it works better to me. Definitely watch out for those light leaks. They will ruin hour day. Best of luck out there,

-TF

 

[OutLander]

TF, thanks. I did see the picture that motherlode posted of the pearly white rootball. I was already considering picking up some zone before you mentioned it. Thanks so much for the recommend.

Let me ask you farmers something about that. I think someone mentioned that zone may conflict with Roots Excel, is that right? Is it a problem to run both at the same time?

It looks like just the price alone justifies using Zone over Hydro-Fungicide, from what I'm seeing. It's just cheaper. I'll be flushing this weekend and expect to go pick up some Zone as soon as I can, probably next week, and see how well it works.


-ol

 

[motherlode]

I didnt notice any drop when I used the HF as a precaution before I got my temps in order - root rot can casue a ph drop however, so be diligent about checking your root mass and clearing up your issue.

there is still some debate about zone and roots excel, my take on it is if your running a clean and sterile res then youd prolly not be putting zymes or roots excel in there in the first place

base nutes, cal mag and zone in my UC

 

[OutLander]

I've checked and there are some sections of a couple root balls that look worse than others, I'm sad to say. But I think I've gotten on top of it before it was too far gone. One of the same root balls that looked worse on the upper portion by the basket has another section of root underneath that is crystal white, like your photos, motherlode. Clearly that must be due to roots excel helping slam out that crap I let in with the light leaks.

I've read a bunch of threads here that make zone sound like the way to go and I was already going to try it before you guys said it here, so I'll be picking some up tomorrow. I will try it by itself without roots excel or HF. Everything's closed this weekend, so I couldn't do anything yet.

But today I flushed everything out and maintained a&b and cal mag and more of the HF. The HF is all I have and I don't want to stop trying to kill that brown crap so I'm going to keep it in there right now. But tomorrow or tuesday I'll probably flush again and move over to zone and see what it does.

Thanks guys.

And here's some basic stats that I didn't put up earlier. this is a vertical setup with 14 1k ushio dual cores surrounding the 10 xxl13s. 13x22 room, 1/2 hp chiller, co2 burner, dedicated 5 ton a/c, 2 can 150 filters, 150 gal rez. I think I'm going to need another can 150 filter.

I tried to replicate as closely as possible what Jack has done just smaller.

 

[motherlode]

I think the HF is the way to go to kill your baddies - 4 ml per gal I believe and the zone is more of a maintenance thing

 

[OutLander]

Will do, motherlode. I'll do that tomorrow.

-ol

 

[Horse]

In my system when I had PH problems like yours I was overfeeding and had root zone issues

After flushing with physan 20 @ 1tsp per 15 gal for 24 hours I dropped my ppms way down and started dosing with zone @ 1ml per gal. Worked like the magic.

 

[OutLander]

Since flushing it's hard to tell if I'm still having as much of a problem with bad bugs. So far, it looks much more stable. I made sure there's about 4ml / gal of HF this morning.

How will I know when the bad bugs are safely under control? What happens to the brown slime I've seen in certain places? I just want to know when to switch away from HF and go to zone.

-ol

 

[Curb Feeler]

What exactly is the bad thing growing? A fungus or just algae? If it's algae, I just worry about it unless it's really out of control. I've never really seen any fungus growing in water medium.

 

[OutLander]

(accidental publish, see post below)

 

[OutLander]

No! Nothing as bad as a fungus, only algae. It's the typical brown shit you see in other parts of this forum, but not as bad at the roots as some pics I've seen on here. That's all.

Also, I should mention that when you add 4mL per gallon of HF, you basically get a car wash there are so many suds, even a long time after adding. And I'm seeing the pH be up and down more than usual to. The plants keep looking better and bettr tho!

-ol

 

[motherlode]

when I added the HF I just left the epicenter lid off - it bubbled up about a foot higher then the top but didnt actually overflow the bucket

 

[OutLander]

I couldn't get away with that. the max fans on the can 150s make sure there's a wind tunnel in the room and those bubbles would be well scattered, if I didnt stop it. I laughed when I saw Jack say "turn off the air pump". Brother, you aint kidding!

So can you guys tell me when I can tell that the algae has been destroyed enough that I can change to zone?

 

[OutLander]

I had the 4mL per gallon in the system for about a day. I saw .5 pH swings in either direction. I finally flushed everything and left just water in the system overnight. I've gone back to the recommended HF 30mL per 100L (about 2mL per gallon or 200mL in my case) plus 30mL cal mag and 75mL a&b. This afternoon, after some pH up I got it to be holding at a stable 6.0. It has now taken only 8 hours for the pH to drop to 5.3.

How long do you have to run the HF to finally get over the root rot hump? The roots have never looked as dark or as bad as what is shown here:



Any other advise? Am I missing something?

-ol

 

[OutLander]

Here's probably a very imporant question for this.. on the UC system, where should the water level be? How far under the bottom of the basket? An inch or two lower?

-ol

 

[OutLander]

I've inspected some of the roots, and I can see where there is root rot but the bad spots are relatively small compared to the rest of the root ball. But I'm continuing to fight the ph dropping.

I'm continuing to keep the Hydro-Fungicide in the system. Should I also be adding hydrogen peroxide? How much per gallon?

This problem is killing my veg and I need to get past it. I'm reading other related threads, but I'd love to get any help to kill this garbage.

-ol

 

[UCMENOW]

You'd start the water level up 1" onto the bottom of the net pot till roots blow out then gradually drop to about 1" below the basket bottom. Drop later in the cycle if you'd like.

 

[OutLander]

UCMENOW,

Thanks. I've been running the level up to the basket bottom pretty much the whole time and I wondered if that was contributing to the root problem, so I thought I'd ask. I've dropped it down a bit now.

-ol

 

[OutLander]

I looked at all the roots yesterday and can only find a few small spots where stuff might be on the edge of root rot. Nothing at all as bad as the pic on the other thread "wtf are wrong with my roots...".

I spoke to Daniel at CC and he said he thinks it's just algae and suggested that I flush everything out and return to a rigid cal-mag and a&b regimen. So that's what I did yesterday.

I also lowered the water level in the system to be about an inch under the net pots since I think I've had it too high. By yesterday afternoon the ph was much more stable, and I think that was part of it. The darker root parts were located right under the basket in a few root balls, but none down lower.

So I've followed Daniel's advice and will check how things are going in the next day or so. Even if the ph swings a bit Daniel said not to mess with it or correct it in any way and that the system will equalize where the plants want it, so I'm not touching it.

I can't wait for the girls to look healthy again!

-ol