Canna Aqua Vs Canna Substra In Current Culture

[slimjimham]

So a buddy was ranting and raving about canna in his rdwc, I picked up the canna aqua ...

I called canna asking about calmag recommendations with my 0 ppm water in these systems.

He instantly stopped me and said something like 'first of we recommend you use the substra line in those systems, we have testing facilities where we used the current culture systems and found because of the ph buffers in the canna aqua it is not ideal for these systems' or something like that.

So I just switched to the substra line the other day, and so far ph seems MUCH more stable... Only time will tell but all systems ph has been a slow rise like it should be.

Also the substra has a soft AND hard water version, this makes me much more confident using it with my 0ppm ro water having a soft water nutrient.

I'm still using 4ml per gallon of MagiCal

So my mix is usually 27 gallons
100ml Magical
75ml uc roots
200-250ml substra soft water A/B

I'm using 0ppm UV filtered RO water, systems chilled to 65*, room temps 76*, rh 40-47%

Lights are closer than they should be but it is what it is at this location...

Also the Substra takes way less ph up... I used like 5ml up on the above mixing schedule with the SUBSTRA SOFT WATER, The aqua line I needed like 39ml of ph up to get the ph where it should be!

Anyone use cans substra in current culture systems, or systems like these? Any experiences?

If not I'll keep you posted, but the rep telling me to use the substra line twice when I contacted them, right at the beginning of the conversation led to try it. And it seems like the ppm is going down quicker too, so the plants might be able to uptake the nutrients from Substra better than the aqua...

Just a thought, but the canna aqua was giving me lots of ph swings, so much that I didn't feel comfortable leaving them unattended for a few days...

 

[ken dog]

Cool... As soon as I learn more about buffers, I'll have more to comment... But I suspect that the other mix has too much calcium carbonate in it.

Regarding 75 milliliters of UC Roots in 100 gallons of water... I don't think that'll make any difference at all.
I was using 5 milliliters a gallon every 3 days in my clone machine... And it barely kept the ORP at 250.

So... I have 2 gallons in my clone machine, and every three days I added 10 milliliters of UC Roots... freshly opened gallon.

 

[slimjimham]

I use 75ml in 27 gallons of water...

The above mix gives me around 500-600ppms on the 500 scale


They recommend 1-3ml per gallon of uc roots for maintenance and I think 5-10 periodically for a flush or like a deep sterilization ha. I seem to have pretty happy healty roots, especially with the chillers.

Though I did accidentally unplug the uv sterilizer, changed the veg tank and plants went to shit... Put in a bunch of uc roots and roots are popping new white fish bones now.... But the plants looked super unhealthy at first, still need a good amount if recovery time... I walked in the veg room the day after changing the nutrients and they were all limp, I about had a heart attack... Still cringe thinking about it but thinking it had to be the uv sterilizer unplugged... Ppm is low in the mix and everything else in the room seemed good... So it must have been that...

 

[slimjimham]

I asked canna by email to make sure the one rep wasnt misinformed... Since there is nothing I can find saying that...

The reply I got from cans by email was
'Jim,
The Substra line is the correct line to run with a DWC system. Because of the lack of ph duffering agent in the Substra the nutrient will be more readily available to the plants. If you were to run the Aqua line it would be constantly trying to right the ph and lock out nutrients that are needed'

That would have been nice to know a few months ado when my aqua ph would periodically bump all over the place, and like I said using so much ph up didn't feel right....

Well now you guys know!

 

[slimjimham]

Ph seems super stable, yet easily adjustable with a very small amount of ph up or down. And plants seem to be eating at a much more rapid pace.

... I think switching to substra for soft water is going to be a big step in the right direction for me

Every day ive been adding 18ml a/b & 6ml MagiCal to the epi (mixing it well)

They say not to do this but in small amounts like that I think it's fine, it's not like it brings the ppm off the charts and ph barely moves, small amounts at a time... And dumping in a 5 gallon bucket topoff would have the same effect, a SMALL spike in ppm until it's mixed.... Plants seem happy so far and are showing it by eating a ton! Yesterday I had to to add back twice to each system to get them where I wanted them ppm wise (around 600 on 500 scale)

Btw I'm in small uc4xl systems around 27-30 gallons, with topoff float for ro water.

that aqua though, ph was crazy at points even when things are on point, (clean source water, chilled, and uc roots, good ppm)... I can say the cultured solutions line was also very ph stable!

 

[Dr.Pepper]

this advice you posted that was from Canna is confusing.

i have read in their Canna Talk mag that the Canna Aqua A & B base nutes were designed for rdwc or any Recirculating hydro system. There was also an article i read that explained the Substra line and how it is designed for low CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) media such as Peat/Perlite mixes and Rockwool in particular in a Drain To Waste system.

 

[slimjimham]

No doubt, it was confusing to me as well because it does say aqua is for the rdwc.... But again when I called a couple times and talked to reps they said aqua has ph buffers and the substra is the same thing without the ph buffers... For some reason the ph buffers can cause ph instability after time.

I talked to two different reps to make sure I wasn't getting bad info, and I can say that the plants are looking much better with the substra like. Ph still tends to drift up like it should but maybe a bit more quickly than I would like to see but keeping that in check with the topoff tanks isn't bad.

Are you using the aqua? How's it going for you? Are you noticing the ph instability I was?

I also like how the substra makes a hard and soft water version

 

[Dr.Pepper]

this is a strange issue you had... makes no sense to me what they advised you on.

i haven't ever used Aqua. I have been researching their line lately and comparing it to H&G so i was just repeating what i read in their Canna Talk mag. Very Strange....

 

[slimjimham]

Yeah, and the Substra specifically says it's not for recirculating systems... But it seems to work way better. It's what I'm using now...

I think their reasoning was because the current culture systems are hyperaerated and I believe they said that does something to the ph buffers in the aqua that causes ph swing

 

[slimjimham]

I just use techniflora magical, substra a/b and uc roots and have been getting great results...

Im interested in trying general hydroponics base in the near future in one system (canna rep actually said it was recommended for these types of systems if I still had ph issues with the substra which I found odd), but I'm happy with the canna substra for now

 

[Dr.Pepper]

good info in here.

hopefully i can avoid any such issues in the future.