Clean your butane oil, or, a thought I had while driving :)

[Graywolf]

The easiest reply is the most honest one which is that I do not know.

I do know that I've been warned against using things like everclear in extractions by people much more qualified to warn someone about such things. I'm simply passing on the concern they had for me at the time. This includes my organic professor, as well as some amateur (if you can call them that) chemists at sciencemadness.

In terms of health safety/pyrolysis products--I didn't meant to postulate that these are concrete possibilities insomuch as they need to be avoided in a specific way. I was only conjecturing that without the full story, the workings of chemistry can be pretty complex. It's really very important to know EXACTLY what you have, and perhaps more importantly what you don't have--especially if you're going to be smoking it which is inherently unhealthy. Fire can break bonds, so my suggestion is that we should know what bonds exists to be broken in something before we smoke it.

If you're really interested, I'd ask you to check the specific gravity of everclear as I suspect this would be very telling. I don't have the required apparatus/don't want to build one. Just going to take my professor at his word for the moment :)

Edit:

It is my understanding that there are additives which control rate of evaporation/vapor pressure. Despite them not being necessary, I wouldn't be surprised to find that preservatives are also added.

The most precise information I can find is that everclear is "relatively low" in congeners--which of course isn't very precise at all. These can include: acetaldehydes, ketones, and higher alcohols.

If you want a bit of a scare, acetone can be pyrolyzed to ketene (although the temperature required is a bit high--it is not outside of the range of a Bic lighter)--and this is some nasty, nasty stuff. If you don't like benzene, you certainly won't like this.

if ketene is present in ethanol, even more side reactions--and side reactions of side reactions--can occur. This is the nature of organic synthesis. Trace amounts or not, it may only take one molecule that doesn't belong to cause cancer--I don't mean to be overly dramatic, as there are likely similar problems with chemical supply all over the world, but this is definitely something to think about.

Relatively low could mean ppb scale, but I'm not sure. I am merely coming from a place of "the right tool for the job". This tool might work, but it's a rusty hand-powered version of the correct one in my opinion.

There is little question that it is a legitimate point at some level and for some processes. My question is whether it applies in this case.

For instance it would be even worse to use an ultrapure 200 proof, that was dried using benzene.

It would also be problematic trying to use food grade 190 proof ethanol in an HPLC, because its signature is unknown.

Given my engineer's propensity to lean toward Occam's razor, I wonder why it would be necessary to control the vapor pressure of drinking ethanol, or why it would need any preservatives.

A compound refluxing still at atmospheric pressure has a predictable temperature curve, with convenient cutoff points to separate the 190 proof azeotropic distillate from the heads and tails containing the preponderance of the cogens.

It is a fine point, and I am open to further consideration, but don't think the professor's admonitions are applicable in this application.

Any thoughts from the rest of ya'll chemical professionals?

 

[CropAndGardn]

Although this thread is old the demand for knowledge on DIY extract is huge.
Using a polar solvent to clean non-polar solvent extracted matter is reverse of the refining process, Using non-polar solvents to "grab" thc from a polar-solvent works very well.
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/getting-the-green-and-waxes-out-afterwards/
I would like to know if anybody has had any luck with getting earwax or budder consistency out of old OD trim.

 

[connoisseurde420]

I have experience in this! check my thread on shatter bho and winterizing

 

[Graywolf]

Damn, almost 100 views and I'm still talking to myself. All you die hard BHO junkies afraid to step outta line :)

A

There are a fair number of folks adding ethanol to help purge the butane, especially if they are also winterizing. It works well.

 

[Graywolf]

Sorry to say that I posted the above before noting the additional pages and it is redundant. Solly!

 

[CropAndGardn]

Sorry to say that I posted the above before noting the additional pages and it is redundant. Solly!

I did the same thing, I think you may be one of very few with the ability to take it further without going in circles, I don't have much experience with extraction from 2-3 yr old trim. I'm wanting to find out if extractions from old trim are able to be polished to the gold blonde colors or if its just going to be dark. My dispensary doesn't want the dark stuff, I guess Ive set their expectations too high in the past.

This pic is from http://skunkpharmresearch.com/getting-the-green-and-waxes-out-afterwards/
Is that really from pipe resin & is it completely dry/purged ?
Ive performed those procedures with iso, butane, & Water. I siphoned the butane off the top after the layers separated, the iso/water was dirty but the extraction is still dark, Im using a 15 micron screen so theres no solids. Should I be able to lighten this ? My bho is always like whitish blonde putty. Am I stuck with this end result due to the trim?

 

[connoisseurde420]

I believe winterizing and running thru a .2 micron syringe is suggested. also the chlorophyll breaks down in sunlight when the bho is suspended in the ethanol

 

[CropAndGardn]

This has been consequently winterized but thats moot due to the butane iso water wash, the waxes are left above the iso/water, after inverting, the sovent/oil is siphoned off the top.
The wax is good IDK why everybody is so concerned about waxes, I sampled it & It does the job well, I also stirred the waxes back into a smaller portion of oil to have a nice thick ball like the dispensaries like, patients want something they can handle for short periods of time.
Extract still containing waxes are very pure in comparison to smoking dried plant.

i'm only looking for info to lighten my extract, everything else is thoroughly covered all over the net, like graywolf said this thread is redundant, im trying to carry the thread further.

I was looking into carboxylation, maybe bonding Carboxylic acid back to the matter will build the oil and lighten it. Its similar to hydrogenation, like turning vegetable oil into shortening. Carboxylation is safer and easier (dry ice and Mg). I would like to hear from someone with experience with isomerizing or thc-acetate. I personally wouldn't mess with acetate, anhydride is required to make it which is also what is used to turn morphine into herion so its on a (special list) I would rather not be involved with. Small Hydrogenators are affordable but on the list as well.

 

[hooted]

Hey hope I'm not reviving a thread no one ones to talk about, but it didn't seem like there was a consensus on an answer...

I'm no expert, but to me everclear seems like a safer solvent to extract with than hexane is. My question to Squiggly is then, what makes you think these same risks you stated about various side reactions occurring wouldn't happen when also making extractions with hexane? or even butane?

I'm only interested as i'm wanting to make an extraction with a cheaper vac oven, and just would imagine having trace amounts of everclear to be safer than butane? Hope for some others input, thanks!

 

[Two.Bears]

Hey All,

Had a thought while driving last night.

I've made BHO a couple times, but prefer oil made with everclear as its food grade. Not stating which is better, just what I prefer and why.

Now, we all can agree that butane provides a somewhat purer product than ethanol oil, even when the ethanol is done in a rapid wash. For the record I prefer to wash kif with everlcear over buds, as the product cleaner than with buds, but thats just me :)

So, I got to thinking, why not get the best of both worlds.

Make BHO in the standard fashion, but before it becomes so thick it traps the butane, add some everclear to thin it out. I checked the miscibility of both solvents and thats not a problem. Butane evaporates @ -5C and ethanol at 76C. So, that should mean that all the butane will be purged before the ethanol can begin to evaporate, theoretically anyway.

Any ideas or insights would be appreciated. I plan on trying it next weekend when finals are finished.

Be safe

I

I agree. The Solvent with the lower boiling point will evaporate before the second Solvent with the higher boiling point.

 

[Two.Bears]

Yeah, give it a run with some killer :) Its great. Here's how I do it.

I have made many types of extract over time. BHO only a couple times years ago, as I could always taste it it seems, or I was just paranoid. Bubble, kif, etc. The most potent cannabis extract I've ever had was home made oil using everclear. I will outline the process. Its pretty standard, and the results are steller!

1. Obtain small glass dish and kitchen sieve that will nest within the dish.

2. Fill dish ~3/4 with everclear or other high proof liquor.

3. 1-2 handfulls at a time, add the plant material to the strainer, then dip in alcohol and agitate lightly for 10-15 second. If you set up two dishes originally, you can then repeat in dish #2 for an additional 30s and see what happens, but I haven't done it yet.

4. After rinsing set herb aside, and repeat with fresh herb until herb is exhausted. Depending on the volume of herb needed to wash, get fresh alcohol once the achohol gets a nice golden color to it.

5. Combine all alcohol fractions.

6. Filter. I use filter paper, buchner funnel, and vac pum. Takes me about 1 min to filter several bottles worth

7. Evaporate alcohol, preferably outside, but indoors is doable BUT ONLY WITH EVERCLEAR and fans. Its still probably not safe though. Flash point for ethanol is 55f, butanes is -76f, so its alot safer than butane but I still wouldn't recommend it.

8. Enjoy!

This shit rocks your world. Tiny drops will knock a grown man down....hey, that sounds good, I think I'll try some now.

A less expensive way to do this is use dry sieve kif and just rinse it a couple tims with everclear.

Be safe

I

I thought about much the same thing.

Put the ground bud in a Stainless Steel tea ball suspended by a chain.

I thought that would seperate the flower vand liquid much faster than pouring through a coffee filter but havent tried it yet.

 

[Two.Bears]

Hey hope I'm not reviving a thread no one ones to talk about, but it didn't seem like there was a consensus on an answer...

I'm no expert, but to me everclear seems like a safer solvent to extract with than hexane is. My question to Squiggly is then, what makes you think these same risks you stated about various side reactions occurring wouldn't happen when also making extractions with hexane? or even butane?

I'm only interested as i'm wanting to make an extraction with a cheaper vac oven, and just would imagine having trace amounts of everclear to be safer than butane? Hope for some others input, thanks!

Butane is not dangerous. Its the additives they add to it.

 

[Two.Bears]

The easiest reply is the most honest one which is that I do not know.

I do know that I've been warned against using things like everclear in extractions by people much more qualified to warn someone about such things. I'm simply passing on the concern they had for me at the time. This includes my organic professor, as well as some amateur (if you can call them that) chemists at sciencemadness.

In terms of health safety/pyrolysis products--I didn't meant to postulate that these are concrete possibilities insomuch as they need to be avoided in a specific way. I was only conjecturing that without the full story, the workings of chemistry can be pretty complex. It's really very important to know EXACTLY what you have, and perhaps more importantly what you don't have--especially if you're going to be smoking it which is inherently unhealthy. Fire can break bonds, so my suggestion is that we should know what bonds exists to be broken in something before we smoke it.

If you're really interested, I'd ask you to check the specific gravity of everclear as I suspect this would be very telling. I don't have the required apparatus/don't want to build one. Just going to take my professor at his word for the moment :)

Edit:

It is my understanding that there are additives which control rate of evaporation/vapor pressure. Despite them not being necessary, I wouldn't be surprised to find that preservatives are also added.

The most precise information I can find is that everclear is "relatively low" in congeners--which of course isn't very precise at all. These can include: acetaldehydes, ketones, and higher alcohols.

If you want a bit of a scare, acetone can be pyrolyzed to ketene (although the temperature required is a bit high--it is not outside of the range of a Bic lighter)--and this is some nasty, nasty stuff. If you don't like benzene, you certainly won't like this.

if ketene is present in ethanol, even more side reactions--and side reactions of side reactions--can occur. This is the nature of organic synthesis. Trace amounts or not, it may only take one molecule that doesn't belong to cause cancer--I don't mean to be overly dramatic, as there are likely similar problems with chemical supply all over the world, but this is definitely something to think about.

Relatively low could mean ppb scale, but I'm not sure. I am merely coming from a place of "the right tool for the job". This tool might work, but it's a rusty hand-powered version of the correct one in my opinion.

Alcohol is a safer extraction method than butane or hexane.

Butane in itself is not dangerous. Its the liner sprayed into the can, and the assorted additives they have to add before it can Legally be sold.

 

[Graywolf]

Hey hope I'm not reviving a thread no one ones to talk about, but it didn't seem like there was a consensus on an answer...

I'm no expert, but to me everclear seems like a safer solvent to extract with than hexane is. My question to Squiggly is then, what makes you think these same risks you stated about various side reactions occurring wouldn't happen when also making extractions with hexane? or even butane?

I'm only interested as i'm wanting to make an extraction with a cheaper vac oven, and just would imagine having trace amounts of everclear to be safer than butane? Hope for some others input, thanks!

Attached is the FDA residual solvent standard.

Hexane in itself is not particularly insalubrious, but the 2.5 Hexane Dione our livers turn it into, is.

NIOSH and OSHA standards are:

n Butane PEL 800 ppm/8 hrs. https://www.airgas.com/msds/001007.pdf
Ethanol PEL 1000 ppm/8 hrs.

 

[REDiJEDi160]

Hey All,

Had a thought while driving last night.

I've made BHO a couple times, but prefer oil made with everclear as its food grade. Not stating which is better, just what I prefer and why.

Now, we all can agree that butane provides a somewhat purer product than ethanol oil, even when the ethanol is done in a rapid wash. For the record I prefer to wash kif with everlcear over buds, as the product cleaner than with buds, but thats just me :)

So, I got to thinking, why not get the best of both worlds.

Make BHO in the standard fashion, but before it becomes so thick it traps the butane, add some everclear to thin it out. I checked the miscibility of both solvents and thats not a problem. Butane evaporates @ -5C and ethanol at 76C. So, that should mean that all the butane will be purged before the ethanol can begin to evaporate, theoretically anyway.

Any ideas or insights would be appreciated. I plan on trying it next weekend when finals are finished.

Be safe

I

You can clean oil this way very easily and yes it does take extra time but it's well worth it even with shitty oil someone made using cheesecloth if you heat the everclear to 100degrees f and mix in the oil or slowly add the fresh run butane stir it around and put it in the freezer for 24 hrs the fats and waxes will stick together pour the everclear through in bleached coffee filters and then evaporate on Pyrex over 160 degree steam vac a few more days and bam you have some great clear shatter

 

[REDiJEDi160]

First pic is the shitty ass oil second is after its refined

 

[REDiJEDi160]

After refinment

 

[Lino Lan]

OK, let me clarify a little bit.

Lots of people think there is still butane in the oil, and are strongly against it. Whether there is/isn't is a topic for another thread.

Lets assume, for this discussion, that butane is left in the oil, or you're concerned it might be.

Doing a standard purge, butane bubbles will often continue to reappear throughout the purge, which is the whole reason for it. Once the oil reaches a certain thickness/viscosity, it will trap the butane inside to an extent.

Due to their difference in evaporation points, the butane would HAVE to evaporate prior to the everclear. That is how the chemistry works.

After adding the everclear, hold it at a raised temp, say 50C for a while, this is not hot enough to evaporate everclear, but more than hot enough to evaporate the butane. The everclear would keep the oil thin enough that the butane could all escape freely.

Doing this in a glass beaker would allow you figure when the butane was gone. This can be figured by watching for when the volume of everclear had reached its original volume.

Example.

1. Run x# butane tubes into beaker with 250ml etoh(ethanol) inside initially.

2. Take your etoh/butane/oil mix, place on hotplate outside. Hotplate should be previously calibrated using etoh to 50C, or some other temp lower than 76C. Possibly use a magnetically stirred hotplate if you have access to one to agitate the mixture.

3. Allow to sit until volume reaches ~250ml(or whatever volume etoh you started with). At this point, all the butane should be gone, theoretically...

4. Remove mixture, and recalibrate hotplate for 80C using Etoh. A water bath can be used if desired as well. Etoh evaps @ 76C, so thats min to get what you want. The THC/CBC/CBN/etc begin to degrade at 100C, so keep well clear of that. At this point you can pour it into a cleaned glass dish to increase surface area and speed evap time.

Let it dry out and bam, BHO potency with a high potential for zero bho residue.

I

How works????