CNS-17 veg food duplicate(copy of their 3-1-2 with improvements)

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This is working well in my chow mix.
I was wrong before. I spent 181.08, not 181.06 on salts.
Here we go.
My formula generates a higher growth rate than cns-17 from the jug.

.16 grams/liter mkp
1.95 g/l calcium nitrate
.23 g/l k nitrate
.16 g/l k sulfate
1.0 g/l epsom (a little more than cns-17, needed)
0.1 g/l of my micro mix that is 4.5% iron(got it from Marion Ag)

Will give you
332 N
83 P2O5
235.6 K2O
370 Ca
98 Mg
157.2 S
4.5 Fe
and some other stuff in the micro mix, molybdenum, boron, etc.

Fuckin' love this shit in my chow mix.
Stable in a dtw res once I adjust from 6.2 ish to 5.8, it will stay there.
Iron gives the green spine.
Gots to have the green spine.
Not even kidding.
You will see.
You can either buy 10 gallons of cns-17 veg, with no micros, and insufficient Mg, or 5 50 lb bags of ferts + 3 lb bag of micros for 181.08 that will grow unlimited pounds of weed.
Same price.
Unlimited weed.
Fuckin' spilled some Calcium Nitrate on the floor the other day.
For all the dead homeys.
Cause I got so much damn fertilizer.

My girlfriend doesn't appreciate what this information means.
But you guys do.
Don't forget to thank JK.
Thanks, JK.


U don't get any k def or N toxicity signs with that? Ive been Having a hard time finding a source for raw salts that wOnt charge out the ass for shipping so I'm using Cns17 in the meantime I add some Epsom salt, but it does have all the micros just not labeled... It's dumb...

I use 3-2-4 in veg which goes to like 180-50-200 in ppms, I've been curious about the 3-1-2 any pics?


Cns-17 lacks the micros. Except for molybdenum. Probably because it is a 1-part food.
So you will not get the bright green spine.
And the smells that go with it.
No toxicity from N or K.
Maybe pics some time.

It took me a couple of hours on the phone and computer to find the salts, and had to drive over a hundred miles each way. It was worth it.

By the way, the 3-1-2 from botanicare is more accurately a 4-1-3.


4-1-3 in ppms I assume? It def has the micros I found their msds sheet, it has all the micros Im pretty sure I can find it again. Hmm I' might have to take a day n do that 180 is less than one run of basses for me, it's upsetting but im busy n the hydro store is quick

Ill c if I can duplicate that


likes to smell trees.
Are you diluting this at all or are you running it straight up? What does the EC come out at?


cns17 coco grow NPK is 3-1-2. in ppms this comes out to 347-50-192 which is about 7-1-4. thats actually way off what u posted so looks like ima stay clear of that one actually


I get like 18something, 1900 ppms or so.
Base of 40 or so.
Then bout 20 ppms(1 ml/L Pro-tekt) or so.
Then these values.
At this point I dilute it slightly. Not for long.

I bought my cns-17 in OR where they cannot fuck around with guaranteed analysis.
No micros in mine besides molybdenum.

Got a story for you.

I read Fatman's stuff a while back when he was making the rounds.
I copied his coco formula. Which was a duplicate of cns-17, but with micros, like 5 ppms iron.
I used AN 3-part and Botanicare's cal-mag to come within like 5-10% of all the listed values. Calculated it by hand. Such a pain in the ass.
Worked so awesome.
Then realized that Fatman had copied cns-17.
So I bought cns-17.
NOT the same performance at all.
JK told Lost that cns-17 needed micros.
He was right.
If you run my formula side by side with cns-17 veg(3-1-2) you will see exactly what I am talking about.
Hogan400's plants have no green spine. They are deficient and sad. Like mine were.
Gettogro's plants have the green spine. I forget what he uses.
H&G's plants are more green and glossy from the iron.
"Green-up" or any product like it usually has N, and of course, iron.
I have done my homework on this.

I stand corrected. Manganese and Molybdenum. No Boron, Iron, etc.
These are really important. Big difference in essential oil profile.
Crucial to dialage of my favorite strain.
I have been chasing that green spine since I saw it.
It is the whole reason I taught myself the diy nute game.

BTW the ppms I copied were straight off the back of the 3-1-2 jug.


1. INGREDIENTS: Calcium Nitrate, MonoPotassium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate,
Magnesium Sulphate, Iron EDTA, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Aced, Zinc Sulfate, Copper
Sulfate, Amonium Molybdate, Nickle Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Potassium Iodide,
Potassium Dichromate, Sodium Selenate, Acozine Blue or Rubinol red.

I see micros :)

you go up to 1900 ppms? .5 or .7 scale? EC? Im trying to stay under 2.2 EC personally to make sure not to kill off micros


WTF Kushtrees.
Now I feel like a dumbass.
Still no green spine though, huh.
My CNS-17 duplicate, with all the iron from the AN micro, and botanicare cal-mag, was way way more dank. And had the green spine.
Then the pure CNS-17 runs, several of them, were absolutely missing something.
I chased the wrong things forever.
The meds grown with the duplicate formula, and under some digilux hps and a horti blue mh, would have reversed my crohn's all by itself.
Several people sampled it.
It was by far the strongest thing I smoked in 23 years of smoking.
Completely outclassed everything else. Everything.
The micros, and the sunlight-ish spectrum, are the two primary factors I believe.
And the kelp.
And Banana Manna at the end.
I think simply some IBA/NAA is the active ingredient in Banana Manna.
Finely tuned nose picking up certain terpenes when the Dip&Grow is used.

I wonder what actual ppms are on their micros.
Good researching Kushtrees.


Yep I feed heavy. The strain demands it.
Like the G13, it is a bit of a freak.
Retard strength potentially, colas bigger than my head.
Same gloss to leaves as g13 when dialed.
I suspect they share some attributes due to their weird genetic profile.
I think my ppm pen is .5
Judging by ppms delivered by cns-17(whatever/gal=3.0 EC, they say on back of larger jugs)
So yeah, I am over 3 EC I think
green punk

green punk

First off thanks for doing the work on this subject. I first read some Dessert Squirrel posts on nutrient profile and this also caught my eye. Id be interested in hearing about your flowering nute regime . Your "it really happened" thread made me interested.

And, like Cap already mentioned .. Is that recipe for a concentrate or per gallon per feeding.


Those values listed are grams per liter to arrive at those ppms. Not a concentrate.
That gets me like 18something or 1900 ppms or something like that with the 40 ppm water I start with, +1 ml/L Pro-tekt. I will replace that when I run out too.
I have a flowering formula tutorial, maybe it needs some brushing up. I think I need to correct some values for it to be without mistakes.
"120-60-300-120-60-157.2 Nute Tutorial" or something.

You're welcome, green punk. Taking my turn like a couple of the big kids did before me. But without any links to research papers.
deep buddy

deep buddy

man its good to see you kickin around more. first thanks for something you said that made me switch shit up. i will def be going this route in the near future( preferably after back surgery). man i cant even think of all the tips that have gone into effect gleaned from your posts.
but my last run i decided too use cns17 original grow and ripe. the only adds were fulvic, DM add 2.7. GP massive and bio genesis mineral matrix. most of which i got for free or had lying around, and killlled it so yeah thanks again you and a few others here reeally helped me step up my game with this coco/chow, and learning so much more about whats really going on with ferts and what is and isnt needed. caause now i feel kinda like a pimp w/ all this fire trees. and its good
thanks DW


I see you follow close to fatmans recipe's........
But if your running DTW why is your calcium higher than your nitro? I thought that high of calcium is mostly beneficial in recirc as a ph buffer
I see you running 3-1-2, have you seen better results with that over 3-1-4?

Like what your doing and when you run your salts do you keep the same npk all the way through flower and do you run any bloom boosters?


Kushtrees, you need a triumphant avatar.
agreed haha

I wish I knew what the ppms of their micros are, but im using spray and grow (a micro foliar) to be sure and havent seen any isssues

chow mix has coco so higher Ca and Mg is good to make up for its properties, plus this is a veg formula and plants like more ca in veg

I havent fed at 3.0 since before I had a EC meter and was a noob going by bottle instructions. The plants were happy and I lowered my EC cuz everyone here was saying that things went better at lower EC, youve inspired me to up the EC from 1.8 (what im currently feeeding em) to see how they like it. That may have been the cause of my Ca issues actually


Kushtrees, I think the ingredients they list on the MSDS are an insufficient suite of micros, and a dye at that. My formulation has no white-ish dye.
Get a real micro mix shipped. You will end up needing one anyway. It will improve performance for you.
I fixed my Ca issues by bumping up food strength just like you are proposing. I like to feed stronger and stronger until morphology shows me to back off, then I overwater at lower ppms to correct. Takes a couple hours to go through the whole thing once you know about what to expect.

Drknockbootz, I have not run 3-1-4. Is that the Jack's recipe? I have wondered what the low K values in comparison to the 3-1-4 does. I will have to bump up K sulfate and see what happens. Too much on my plate right now to do any serious experimenting with that.
I follow the values in my flowering food tutorial. I will do that and some MOAB last 2 weeks of feeding(6&7).

I expect I will do veg through wk 1 flower. Week 2 will be 1/2 veg 1/2 flower. Wk 3-5 flower. Week 6-7 Moab + flower. Week 8-9 flush.
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