Coco Ph

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tobh

tobh

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Don't worry about getting root bound in coco. Nor worry about overwatering. In fact, a lot (including myself) agree that the more dense the root structure the better yields you can achieve in coco. The more dense the root structure becomes, the more often you can feed as well. For instance, this run I haven't moved from solo cups at all. Rooted in the same container they're going to be harvested from. The transplant with the layers wouldn't be difficult. If I followed his post correctly, he's essentially setting it up as a hempy pot without the 2 inches of perlite in the bottom and instead uses chips or similar texture coco. Actually sounds like a good thing to do, if you can swing the funds.

The two biggest reasons I use coco coir are these: 1) It's cheap and available at a variety of stores. 2) It's versatile and flexible. Imo no other medium offers you so many options and so much control over how your medium functions. A cherry on top is the fact you get beautiful, frosty almost organic looking flowers with the weight nearly equal to hydro and in some cases in excess of a hydro yield.
 
cocoJoe

cocoJoe

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I transplant once,, just before flower.. Seedlings are started in the lightest grade of coco..

Peace,,
cocoJoe
 
cocoJoe

cocoJoe

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Don't worry about getting root bound in coco. Nor worry about overwatering. In fact, a lot (including myself) agree that the more dense the root structure the better yields you can achieve in coco. The more dense the root structure becomes, the more often you can feed as well. For instance, this run I haven't moved from solo cups at all. Rooted in the same container they're going to be harvested from. The transplant with the layers wouldn't be difficult. If I followed his post correctly, he's essentially setting it up as a hempy pot without the 2 inches of perlite in the bottom and instead uses chips or similar texture coco. Actually sounds like a good thing to do, if you can swing the funds.

I agree with the root bound idea and yield. The roots do love this 3 layers of coco thing.. I used to blend my coco grades,, the layering works better..
Solo cup plants can yield pretty good in coco..
I finish in solo cups..

Peace,,
cocoJoe
 
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artcore

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My worry is not about root bound... in soil if start in the final pot the center will have few roots and will never get a dense root structure in the center, yielding less... in soil I do multiple transplants to get a dense root mass not because root bound.

My doubt is if I need to do multiple transplants to get a dense root structure in coco.

@tobh , I was looking in your diaries and found it odd rooting clones in large final pots/cups, is against everything I learned with soil lol
 
tobh

tobh

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@artcore that's because I'm not in soil. I'm in straight coco coir. Specifically, coco bought at PetSmart in the reptile section. 3 bricks for $7 bucks, flushed it a couple times to get EC down then precharged with 1/4 strength nutrient solution. Second run on this particular coco.
 
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artcore

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I think I'll start with coco already ready to use, in the local hydro store they have Atami, U-Gro, Plagron, Canna and Biobizz, will look for some reviews to choose the brand, will use 2 liters pots (final pot), VDL pots... in the local hydro they have coco for VDL... but I can not find any description of VDL grows!?!

For how long should I veg the clones for 2l pots?... rooting/veg T5 72w, bloom hps dual 250/400w
 
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artcore

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I clone with no dome in an environment that averages <30% RH in coco. No issues what so ever. Imo a dome just adds to the potential of damping off. If a clone is gonna die on me, I rather it die from getting too dry than it dying from being too humid. Also helps to not deal with the transition of environment from being in 90% humidity to ~50% humidity. No hardening off period. Imo they throw roots faster without a dome because they realize they're losing water, quickly. So if they want to survive they better get some roots down, or die. Survival of the fittest is my logic here.

I'm taking cuts and I will test six in coco... usually I use jiffys of peat with some drops of root stimulator and Clonex gel and I feed the clones with Fishmix (foliar).

Coco is inert, should I feed the cuts? I used water with 280 PPM
 
Limonene

Limonene

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Im a recent convert to coco - from dwc - and i am loving it. i have lost some of my explosive growth but gained quality which is a decent trade off IMO. i still achieve the same gpw but the look, smell and taste of my bud is far superior to before.
i mix 60% coco 40% perlite and also add microbial powders. hand water when young and then put on a recirculating drip system when established. Ultimately my aim is to feed 5 times during lights on in the flower period, building up to that by starting at maybe 3 feeds a day in week 1 of flower and then 4 in week 2-3 and then 5 throughout the rest of the cycle. putting my pants in fairly small sacks (8 or 12 litre) really helps me to achieve optimum feed rates. these plants will each easily cover a m2 each when finished.
 
tobh

tobh

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You did good, 1/4 strength nutes always with coco. Make sure to be going a little heavy on the cal/mag right now too. Coco is a mag hog, your girls will appreciate it later on. Also, don't water them for the first week unless they start getting excessively dry. Watering just rooted clones can destroy the tiny hairs and stunt growth, you want those girls to be running their feelers out for that water initially. I've even seen coco go 14 full days without water while cuts were rooting. Most the time I give first watering about 5-7 days after cut.
 
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artcore

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I've been looking for PPM charts for coco, in the nuts brands I have at home there is a big difference in PPM for the same amount. The plan is switch to 12/12 five days after rooting, taking into account my plan how much should I use (PPM) in the first week, 2,3,4.... week

I must also mix grow with bloom as I do in soil?

And about cal-mag... I have epsom salts and Grotek Cal-Max 2-0-0, how much PPM of cal- PPM should I use?
 
Limonene

Limonene

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I just follow my old dwc regime. 1.4 e.c maybe up to 1.6 about week 4 of bloom. Then I start reducing again. Might add a little cal mag about week 3 but I don't find it essential.
 
tobh

tobh

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^ right there. No reason to feed plants any higher than 1.6 EC in coco, 1.8 if you're going heavy. Slowly ramp up, stick around 1 EC for the first few days then start letting it creep up until you max out around week 5, then start tapering down again.

Ime, you don't want to rely on anyways feed charts. They call for this amount of solution and claim this EC but in reality if you go off their mL dosage, your EC winds up way out of control. It all a matter of feel and in coco, the ladies tend to show you signs a lot sooner than soil but not as severely as hydro if you're paying attention and catch it early.
 
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artcore

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The clones were transplanted 3 days ago and so far they are doing well, yesterday changed the cycle to 12/12, I'm watering once a day with 400 ppm 5.8 and the run off is 450 ppm 5.9, 1ml cal-mag+1ml grow+1ml bloom per 1.5L, I am using bottled water 25 ppm 4.8 mixed with tap water 260 ppm 7.8, my intention is to avoid using pH down because of the problems that caused me growing in soil but I have used a few drops for "fine-tunning", the idea is to maintain this feed (400/500ppm) until the first pistils.

To maintain optimal levels how much run off water... 10?20?30%?...

5 coco
 
tobh

tobh

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10-15% runoff every time. Once stretch kicks in, if you can, start feeding twice daily. They'll suck those little pots dry quick and it'll throw your EC in the medium off real bad. Looking good as of now though!
 
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artcore

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The EC/PPM are controlled, there is a difference of 30 PPM between the feed and the run off, the problem is the pH that have been rising, I'm feeding twice per day 400PPM 5.8, the pH was stable at 5.9 but four days ago began to rise 0.1 per day, yesterday after the second feed of the day the run off was 6.4, today feed 400PPM 5.5 and the run off was 6.2, I think I'll keep the 5.5 pH to stabilize the run off at 5.9.

Two of the lamps that I was using (2x15w) were old and should have lost efficiency so yesterday installed new cfls 22w 2700ºk 1300 lumens, my micro grow now has a total of 54w and 3000 lumens... will not get more under the canopy of my bloom cab (hps400w)?... I think I will try with 3 plants I have in the micro-grow.
 
ClassV

ClassV

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Rising PH in the runoff might indicate they are getting a little to much of one or more elements. Do you occasionally feed at a reduced EC?
 
tobh

tobh

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As ClassV said, if you are only watering once a day make sure to be feeding a 1/4 dose solution once a week. Runoff pH is highly inaccurate though. The recommended method of checking medium pH is through a slurry test. There are simply too many variables that can alter the pH as it moves through the medium so it's best to go with a slurry test for an accurate reading.

I typically don't worry about it too much unless the plants look like they an issue. 5.5 is a fine pH occasionally for your solution, just make sure to not hold it there consistently. It unlocks too much availability to N which will then have potential to lock out other nutrients. This is where reading Seamaiden's thread about nutrients comes into play as it explains some of the other variables that come into play when having such control over your plant's growth.

On the note of such low pH, most people in coco consider this to be too low. Most times you only see this in full hydro systems. I personally treat coco as a hydro medium so I find it to be somewhat beneficial in early veg to use such pH. Also in the first week of flower I'll feed in this range a couple times. But for the most part I try to go no lower than 5.7 and no higher than 6.0 for my solutions.
 
MidwestToker

MidwestToker

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As ClassV said, if you are only watering once a day make sure to be feeding a 1/4 dose solution once a week. Runoff pH is highly inaccurate though. The recommended method of checking medium pH is through a slurry test. There are simply too many variables that can alter the pH as it moves through the medium so it's best to go with a slurry test for an accurate reading.

I typically don't worry about it too much unless the plants look like they an issue. 5.5 is a fine pH occasionally for your solution, just make sure to not hold it there consistently. It unlocks too much availability to N which will then have potential to lock out other nutrients. This is where reading Seamaiden's thread about nutrients comes into play as it explains some of the other variables that come into play when having such control over your plant's growth.

On the note of such low pH, most people in coco consider this to be too low. Most times you only see this in full hydro systems. I personally treat coco as a hydro medium so I find it to be somewhat beneficial in early veg to use such pH. Also in the first week of flower I'll feed in this range a couple times. But for the most part I try to go no lower than 5.7 and no higher than 6.0 for my solutions.
What if your pH is consistently coming out around 5.0 with your feed going in at 5.8. @ 400 ppms' ?
 
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artcore

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Thanks for the infos... during the first 14 days always kept the same feeding, 400ppm but after reading @
ClassV post did some adjustments and the run off is more stable, yesterday flushed (100%run off) with 200 ppm pH 5.8, today flushed again (50% run off) 350 ppm pH 5.8, the run off was 380 ppm 5.9 in the smaller pots (white pots), the black pots run off was 380 ppm 6.1, 4 days ago the black pots were 6.4.

In the firts days used a mix of tap water with bottled water but then I started to use only tap water but kept the same dose of cal-mag, for 6 liters of water I was adding 2.5ml cal-mag, now I only use 1 ml, the grow dose was also reduced and have increased the Bloom dose to get 400ppm (3.5ml for 6L).

The clones are healthy and growing with a good pace considering that only have 54w
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I've done another selection and discarded two clones, I now have 8 inside the micro grow, the last two will go to my bloom cab.
 
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