Coco, planter size, and watering frequency

[cctt]

I've been running coco for a while now and I like almost everything about it but have one persistent issue: getting the plants and roots up to flowering size (I flip them big) while keeping vigor through each transplant. The problem, as far as I can tell, lies in the fact that coco holds and wicks a good deal of water, and if it does not dry sufficiently between feedings it will not provide enough oxygen for uptake. If a plant is growing in a bigger planter than it can dry out quickly, it will not be able to grow vigorously. My best vegging plants are in small enough planters to require daily feeding. This is great except it leaves a rootball too small to provide for what's required in flowering. Transplanting up always seems to slow the plants until they can fully establish roots into their new space and grow big enough tops to actually use it. What this means for me is my veg cycle always takes too long and plants are not ready to flip by the time the room has space for them. I'm coming from a pure-hydroton background where this is not an issue at all. I've tried adding rice hulls to the coir, which seems to have helped a bit, but it still doesn't seem good enough.

What kind of watering and transplant schedules do farmers here like to run? How much root space do you provide (per watt would be nice)? What is the water and air holding capacity of your coco blend? In short, how can we best use coir like a hydro system rather than soil?

I still don't know how Capulator manages to top feed hourly without overwatering. Finding a working balance using than kind of frequency sounds great.

 

[BudGoggles]

Ill let ya know soon. Just threw 32 plants in 1 gallon fabric pots. Gonna water em every other day for first six days. Then Ill water daily. Once Im in full blown flower Im planning on watering 4-6 times a day..... Thats hydro like

In the past I watered 2 times a day in 10l pots. Plants loved it

 

[UNITEDGROOVES]

The best thing to do is when transplanting into a bigger pot is give it 1 good watering then let it dry out (not completely) so the roots will go searching for water.. Within 3-5 days you should see roots popping out of the pots (if using fabric pots) then for about another week just water them when they are about to dry out not like you would normally do with coco... I transplant from cups to 5x5 square pots.. then once the roots are full (it takes about 2 weeks max) then I'd go into a 1 gal smart pot.. After another week or so, then into a 3 gal and repeat the above steps ( letting the coco dry out a bit after the 1st watering).. IMO, there is no need to go over 2-3 gal in coco.. You can grow trees in 3 gal pots.. Another thing I do if I plan to water multiple times a day is add some hydroton (chowmix) or better yet some pumice.. this helps a lot for draining and dry cycles... Also a good rooting product is a must with coco, the one I use and the best i've found after using many products is startbooster by aptus.. This will make you roots blow up!..

Peace

 

[We Solidarity]

Coco does best, like unitedgrooves said, when you let them dry a little more than normal before transplanting up. You always want coco to stay moist and never dry too much, its very rare to see coco plants wilt and not have problems.

There are two options when you're growing with coco:

1) Other than the transplant, you should be watering coco every day. if your plants aren't drinking every day by the time you get to flower, either use smaller pots or add perlite. I've grown a 14 foot tree in a 5 gallon bag of coco...the roots will make the room in there it's a very airy medium. When you're watering every day it's more in the DTW style, where you can feed a higher EC and water the pots for runoff. You'll definitely want perlite in larger containers but anything smaller than 5 gallons you should be able to run through without overwatering a mature plant (that's the best thing about coco- find your proper pot size/aeration combo and you can never overwater the plant)

2) Try to take note of the moisture level the medium is at when the plants are happiest and growing the most (praying leaves is a good indication of that) and try and keep it as close to that as possible. The best way to figure it out is to water very heavy and watch over the course of 3-5 days as the moisture level declines. This method is better for transplant/transitioning plants or plants in larger containers. It's important to keep your EC down with this method though so that you don't get the media too hot between waterings (if you water too high EC the plants will drink water faster than they'll absorb the nutrients, which can burn your roots since coco has no cation exchange capacity). A low EC will also encourage roots to grow and expand through the medium looking for more salts.

 

[cctt]

... coco has no cation exchange capacity

I have read the opposite. Here's what Botanicare says about it.

 

[We Solidarity]

I should definitely rephrase that to say a funky CEC...coir colloids hold cations (especially Ca and K+) very tight and doesn't start exchanging them until they are all filled, or the coco is "charged". In fact, the reason coco has to be washed repeatedly is because of all the bonds to K+ and other cations. Pre-bagged coco is usually chemically treated to allow for maximum cation exchange and then amended with some sort of mineral ore (IE azomite, glacial rock dust, etc) and a calcium source (crab shell, oyster shell, CaCO3, etc) to further stabilize CEC and PH. Without those amendments, the CEC is quite high...but also what's been described to me as "sticky". Not washing or buffering coco right is what will lead to significant problems...if I understand correctly coco is mostly cellulose and is freshly harvested (meaning it hasn't aged for centuries like most high CEC organics), so it is still very fresh and electromagnetically active, which means it's CEC fluctuates with the PH and shouldn't be regarded as "stable" unlike peat, biochar, compost, etc.

But ya...your most common cations in treated coco are gonna be Ca and Mg if you're using coco specific (or anything in a bottle, really) nutes, and they will definitely act as antagonists, especially in low EC or high P/K environments. PH alters the availability of Ca and Mg as cations so if you're Ca deficient lower your PH and if your Mg deficient raise it a little. Well-balanced coco shouldn't need much Ph adjustment as it's cation exchange isn't extremely active. Cations only really start getting released and exchanged when some are made more available or less available due to inconsistencies in PH or feed ratios. Being a fresh and very active medium, coir is still decomposing, which means it will still be exchanging nitrogen and carbon molecules, which can affect N availability for your plant.

I'm just ranting at this point...I don't even remember why I said no CEC, probably because I didn't want to start typing out all this lol

 

[cctt]

Has anyone run a coco/rice hull mix like hydro (multiple waterings/day) successfully? I see a lot of people doing chow mix this way...

 

[We Solidarity]

Has anyone run a coco/rice hull mix like hydro (multiple waterings/day) successfully? I see a lot of people doing chow mix this way...

right about to try out two different mixes. Haven't been impressed with rice hulls, they tend to fly everywhere if you have high water pressure

 

[sureshot66]

i use hydroton and chunky perlite,better drainage and aeration, im in beds, its key to give them drying time while establishing rootzone, then u can water the shit outta them...i feed beds less than a minute a day, 2 short feeds, i might bump it up to 3 in a couple of weeks and see how they respond

 

[cctt]

Thanks for all the input. I've definitely noticed coco is not a vigorous medium until the roots are established, then it can take off. As a matter of theory (and I do enjoy discussing theory) why can't coco be watered like hydro while roots are establishing? If air space is sufficient, and nothing's ever allowed to dry out at all, shouldn't the space where the roots have already grown be just as good regardless of whether there's adjacent media not yet being used? I can understand the wicking affecting oxygenation if you're letting the whole container dry to bring in air, but in a hydro context this doesn't make sense to me.

 

[homebrew420]

From 4"rockwool cubes we trasplant to flower in 3gal bags using compressed coir that fill the entire bag. Removing enough to fit cube. Transplants are place under 1000w hps fed 4 times aday with full hydro nute. 1.7-2.0ec for the first 2 weeks. They simply explode with growth. Dtw. 6 lights 42ish plant 20gal runoff for the first 2 weeks then reduces as roots and plabt grow.
Hope that helps

 

[mmmdankbuds420]

Ill let ya know soon. Just threw 32 plants in 1 gallon fabric pots. Gonna water em every other day for first six days. Then Ill water daily. Once Im in full blown flower Im planning on watering 4-6 times a day..... Thats hydro like

In the past I watered 2 times a day in 10l pots. Plants loved it

Is it important to water multiple times a day?

 

[cctt]

Is it important to water multiple times a day?

Once the roots are fully established you can water coco just about as often as you like. The more often you water the more it becomes like hydro. I like to do it this way for increased uptake and vigor. It is not necessary, however. You can let it get almost dry just like soil, if you like, as well.

 

[mmmdankbuds420]

Once the roots are fully established you can water coco just about as often as you like. The more often you water the more it becomes like hydro. I like to do it this way for increased uptake and vigor. It is not necessary, however. You can let it get almost dry just like soil, if you like, as well.

O cool. Thanks! :)

 

[GR33NL3AF]

In my beds (gR33n Room 2) each plant has roughly .83 gallons to itself however, this doesn't account for the 'survival of the fit' theory, some are certainly bigger than others.

The plants are roughly 2' tall, 72 per 4x4 and they are currently 6 days into flower. I have not allowed these beds to dry once and if you have a moment check out the roots in my beds, they're incredible! The plants have such health and vigor.

I am anticipating once stretch is done, plants are thinned and air/light can penetrate the canopy these beds will dry out close to daily.

Btw, this is pure Canna, uncut.

 

[BudGoggles]

Is it important to water multiple times a day?

I ended up watering them 6 times a day in full bloom. This has been my biggest yield ever to date. 4 600 watters with 64 plants gave me 6.6#s with ease. Next round I should hit 7#s no problem

The more you water em the more o2 in the root zone. Plus it washes out the nasties and keeps it nice and clean

 

[GR33NL3AF]

I ended up watering them 6 times a day in full bloom. This has been my biggest yield ever to date. 4 600 watters with 64 plants gave me 6.6#s with ease. Next round I should hit 7#s no problem

The more you water em the more o2 in the root zone. Plus it washes out the nasties and keeps it nice and clean

Over 1.25 GPW, incredible! That should answer your question @cctt !!

 

[BudGoggles]

One 3x6 table with H&G gave me 3.5#s other table was cyco nutes gave me 3.1#s

 

[Tnelz]

Has anyone run a coco/rice hull mix like hydro (multiple waterings/day) successfully? I see a lot of people doing chow mix this way...

Check Seamaiden she has some pretty good things to say about rice hulls bro!

 

[sensicloud]

One 3x6 table with H&G gave me 3.5#s other table was cyco nutes gave me 3.1#s

H&G is so awesome, I love it.